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#57487 - 01/21/04 08:42 PM Re: Hurt and confused
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I have to add though that the comments in my last post were about how I was some years back.
And I genuinly did feel bad about my behaviours and attitudes. But I had no ability or frame of reference to deal with the problem of apologising, so I'd retreat.

Recovery and therapy teaches us a lot, we have to forgive ourselves for what we've put ourselves through with out distorted thinking, guilt and shame. And from that I learned to feel genuinly sorry towards others, and express it.

It's scary for the reasons SAR said-

Quote:
He doesn't want to face feeling bad for what he's done. He doesn't want to think about/ remember how he's hurt me.
Now I can talk quite openly with my wife about my acting out, because we trust each other and I know how to do it now.
A few years ago if I'd been caught acting out and had some explaining to do I'd have made it her fault. There was no way I accepted ( outwardly ) that anything I did was wrong.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57488 - 01/22/04 02:23 AM Re: Hurt and confused
gryffindor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/03
Posts: 131
Loc: St. Charles, Illinois
The biggest stressors in life -- the ones that potentially shorten life -- are:

1. birth

2. death

3. job loss

4. divorce, and

5. moving.

Moving has just about ruined my life. My suggestion is dump the guy. He asked you to marry him not because he wants a lifelong companion but because he doesn't want to come home to an empty apartment at the end of the day. He wants you there to keep him from feeling lonely. Do you really want to start a brand new life in a brand new place where you know no one, where you have none of the support and connection that long-time friends and family provide, and where your only human comfort comes from someone who blows hot or cold depending on how secure he feels? He probably won't be feeling real secure in a brand new job in a brand new place where he knows no one and has none of the support and connection of friends and family that he's accustomed to, except you. It sounds like a receipe for divorce to me.

Mary

_________________________
"Where there's a will, there's a way." American Folk Saying

"Had I not fallen, I could not have arisen; had I not sat in darkness, I would not have recognized the light." Midrash Tehillim Ch. 22

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#57489 - 01/30/04 02:36 PM Re: Hurt and confused
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
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Do survivors, during these times, feel bad about being mean to their loved ones? And do they spend half the time thinking/worrying about these bad situations like the partners do. Even as I try to stay in the "working zone", I'm angry that my mind and heart are constantly worried about him all day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh yes, I'd feel bad, but I'd get over it with a fantasy, thinking about which tires to use on the 4x4 at the weekend, all the 'important stuff'

It's a great defence and coping stratergy, we piss people off so they don't come too close, blame them for it, and retire gracefully into our little world. Only popping out for food, drink and laundry.

Dave

la ti da aint this my life these days.... sorry if i sound a tad bitter... but i'm fed up as per my other posts...

how do i get my partner to recognize this will not stop until he stops brushing this under the rug and minimizing this without dumping his ass??

He is the KING of yelling at me "look at your own behaviour - dont blame others for what you dont want to do for/within yourself" while he is in the process of denying his own behaviour!!! it just galls me.. his hypocrisy...and then when I ask him to specifically indicate what exactly it is that I am doing that is a problem for him he cannot describe it. He just gets all general and vague and theoretical.. and I can go to him "i do not want to put up with your verbal abuse" and he just goes on and on all theoretical and stuff... it is so appalling... this has been "our issue" for ages.. he just acts and reacts but has no clue that it is NOT me that is causing his emotions.

He went on this retreat a few months ago claiming he was a "changed man" but oh how things have reverted back to the usual so quickly when I had a big problem and he could not cope with it.

P


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#57490 - 01/30/04 02:38 PM Re: Hurt and confused
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do survivors, during these times, feel bad about being mean to their loved ones? And do they spend half the time thinking/worrying about these bad situations like the partners do. Even as I try to stay in the "working zone", I'm angry that my mind and heart are constantly worried about him all day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh yes, I'd feel bad, but I'd get over it with a fantasy, thinking about which tires to use on the 4x4 at the weekend, all the 'important stuff'

It's a great defence and coping stratergy, we piss people off so they don't come too close, blame them for it, and retire gracefully into our little world. Only popping out for food, drink and laundry.

Dave

la ti da aint this my life these days.... sorry if i sound a tad bitter... but i'm fed up as per my other posts...

how do i get my partner to recognize this will not stop until he stops brushing this under the rug and minimizing this without dumping his ass??

He is the KING of yelling at me "look at your own behaviour - dont blame others for what you dont want to do for/within yourself" while he is in the process of denying his own behaviour!!! it just galls me.. his hypocrisy...and then when I ask him to specifically indicate what exactly it is that I am doing that is a problem for him he cannot describe it. He just gets all general and vague and theoretical.. and I can go to him "i do not want to put up with your verbal abuse" and he just goes on and on all theoretical and stuff... it is so appalling... this has been "our issue" for ages.. he just acts and reacts but has no clue that it is NOT me that is causing his emotions.

He went on this retreat a few months ago claiming he was a "changed man" but oh how things have reverted back to the usual so quickly when I had a big problem and he could not cope with it.

P


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#57491 - 01/30/04 07:24 PM Re: Hurt and confused
lindts Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 26
PAS, just remember that when he gets all generalized and vague about what "your" problem is.. it's just proof that it's really all about him and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, otherwise he could be specific. Chances are, the things that he thinks are wrong with you, are probably his own flaws. Heck, just keep realizing how lucky "he" is to have someone so supportive to put up with his ups and downs.
I am just amazed, or should I use livid, at how spiteful and mean my bf can be when he lapses back. It's like he turns into the incredible hulk and some of the hurtful stuff is downright laughable (i.e. he says he has a problem with every one of my friends at work.) I am currently telling myself to wait it out like last time even though the patience is killing me. But like you, I am totally angry at the idea that he is the one acting selfish and childish, yet I'm the one who is trying to make everything better.
I am starting to realize though, that when the irrationalism starts to set in (even though sometimes I don't realize it at first), I pretty much try to leave him alone (luckily we live an hour apart) because there is no way of winning the argument in his state of mind. Even if I said the sky is blue, he will get totally angry and insist that it was green during his bad periods.
Hang in there and smile.. I always gain strength from your insightful posts.


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#57492 - 02/02/04 10:56 AM Re: Hurt and confused
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
>>>>PAS, just remember that when he gets all generalized and vague about what "your" problem is.. it's just proof that it's really all about him and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, otherwise he could be specific.

I forget this.. i tend to get sucked in and my own issues/insecurities flare..

Next time.. next time.. I will try to remind myself to stay grounded... it is hard when it goes from generalities into verbal abuse. I will try so hard just to not GO THERE and walk away when he starts acting like a dickhead.

It had just been such a long time (over 6 months) since this happened I was just thrown for such a loop.

>>>Heck, just keep realizing how lucky "he" is to have someone so supportive to put up with his ups
and downs.

I'll try to remind myself of that next time. I guess I just have so much of my own insescurity due to my verbal abuse history it is hard.

>>>>I am just amazed, or should I use livid, at how spiteful and mean my bf can be when he lapses back. It's like he turns into the incredible hulk and some of the hurtful stuff is downright laughable (i.e. he says he has a problem with every one of my friends at work.)

I HEAR YOUU!!!!!!!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS TO ME TOO!!!!!

Lets see.. what did he say this time:

I was no better than my abusive dad - that I was just like him, walked, talked, sounded like, etc..

I had an anger and anxiety problem (duuh! thats a real big secret.. NOT! and did he think yelling at me and blaming me for it is going to help resolve it?)

I was in total denial of my own issues

I was just like his mother did not want to listen to him or hear his point of view

I dont put any effort into my recovery because I haven't seen my shrink since before Xmas (I have seen her once and she has been hard to schedule due to other commitments)

He had "further proof" that I did not want to work on myself because I cancelled an appointment 2 weeks ago (I rescheduled it as I had to go to the east coast for a work trip)

I dont get it.


>>>>But like you, I am totally angry at the idea that he is the one acting selfish and childish, yet I'm the one who is trying to make everything better.


>>>>I am starting to realize though, that when the irrationalism starts to set in (even though sometimes I don't realize it at first), I pretty much try to leave him alone (luckily we live an hour apart) because there is no way of winning the argument in his state of mind. Even if I said the sky is blue, he will get totally angry and insist that it was green during his bad periods.

YES THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>>>Hang in there and smile.. I always gain strength from your insightful posts.

Thanks. Now its my turn to get strength from you.

The big question is how the (P*&(*& do I calm myself down now? I have been in an ugly, uncomfortable anxiety attack for over a week now.. Ugh it is so awful. I feel terrible. So tired. I cannot believe I have not had a heart attack or some horrible cold as I barely sleep more than 3 hours per night. I fall asleep sitting in a car or in front of the TV but when I get to bed I cannot calm the (*&( down and I spin and spin..

Part of me really really believes all the shit he says.. because thats the shit that I have been fed my whole life. My dad is a survivor too and I have been verbally harangued like that for my whole life. I just cannot NOT take it personally. Part of me really believes I am flawed, ugly, difficult, temperamental, bitchy, and overall just a horrid horrid unloveable person.

I feel so trapped in my anxiety.

P


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#57493 - 02/02/04 04:45 PM Re: Hurt and confused
stpbb Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 103
anxiety!!!!!

boy oh boy, did you hit on my current area of work on myself!

I moved & have been at quite a distance from my ex bf & have found that the anxiety that I have experienced in the relationship has continued in reaction to other issues in my life. So I went in for therapy to deal specifically with the anxiety.

Some ideas -- my therapist has helped make me a relaxation tape. It is really helpful -- basic deep breathing, guided meditation types of techniques. I have an anti-anxiety med that I take if needed, but try to avoid. Avoid excessive caffeine, plus all the basic self-care stuff (food, sleep, etc) and exercise. She also recommended a workbook, I can get you the title if you are interested.

From a distance, I am seeing how my anxious response has made things matter that really don't and made me more sensitive to things that I would be in my more rational frame of mind. When I feel stable and secure myself I dont get so caught up in his dramas & dysfunction. I checked in and read the posts here & was thinking about how I feel about my ex. I am much more optimistic & much less judgmental of his choices and setbacks when I am not experiencing the fallout up close. I also really think that it is not only him, but the dysfunction of his surroundings & relationships that added to the overall sense of instability leading to insecurity leading to anxiety when I was still living so close. So Im more sympathetic because I see him suffering with those relationships as well & also having less emotional stability because of them.

Anyway, the therapist I'm working with now has encouraged me to work hard to lower my overall anxiety level and says that helps with both the frequency & intensity of attacks.

As for you right now PAS, I cant help but think medication! Five days, bad sleep, yikes! Is there an MD you can talk to about a short-term solution so you can get a break from the stress? Or maybe even a sleeping pill & a day off work? Your household has been disrupted, you are preparing for your marriage, there are loads of stressors on you & really I can see why youd be extremely stressed & anxious. I think youll feel better about the whole situation with your partner if you can get your brain off overload & have a real rest!

And if that fails, I have found that the work of the German philosopher, Gadamer, always puts me to sleep!!

-BB.


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#57494 - 02/02/04 08:26 PM Re: Hurt and confused
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Luckily my behaviour was different, I didn't get into rages or bawl my wife out. I'd just retreat and get spiteful. Not nice either.

But oh boy do I recognise everything else you guys say ! ALL the 'drivers' seem the same, the excuses are the same, the tunnel vision is the same and so is the worst kind of selfishness.

I'd throw the most hatefull shit back at my wife, knowing full well that it would hurt deeply. Then, and only then, did I feel like the scumbag I truly believed I was.

Victim thinking, I was going for the "poor me" vote every time.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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