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#57477 - 01/15/04 06:49 PM Hurt and confused
lindts Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 26
I need answers. Brief recap: a few months back things were slowing going very well with my bf after a miserable summer of him confronting his SA. We were moving forward slowly and really enjoying each other again. I posted a msg on sabotage because he applied for an out-of-state job without discussing it with me. When it looked like he might get the job, he immediately apologized sincerely, numerous times. He said he was going through a bad time when he applied. I know that's true because I remembered how he was during that time. I immediately accepted his apology with no questions asked.

A few days later, just before the holidays, he tells me not to worry because he has a plan regarding the job. He comes over that night and proposes to me and wants me to move halfway across the country with him. For the first 15 sec., I jump on him with excitement and tell him how much I want to be with him, but when I realize he wants me to move, I start to cry uncontrollably for the next two hours.

The next day, I apologize for hurting his feelings with my tears, but explain that I love where I live (I have a special personal attachment to the area), I like my job, his family is nearby, my family loves to visit the area and on the few occasions he would talk about our future, it was always assumed we'd end up here. Besides, if he ever took the time to really listen to me, he would have realized how much it means to me to live here. Now the transfer is only two years and the possibility of returning is pretty good, but nothing is for certain.

Consequently, he is furious and refuses to talk to me and won't even mention if he still wants to get married. I feel very hurt. I stuck with him this whole summer while he went through his horrible times. I have tried so incredibly hard to be the best gf that I could be. He never even considered my feelings in moving. Besides, just about a month and a half ago he said that the things with SA were coming along well but that he still needed a little more time before we could talked about our future. Then suddenly the job thing happens and within three weeks he proposes.

Also, he wasn't going to visit my family (in another state) during the holidays to announce the engagement because he "had" to work...he's a work-a-holic, but when he refused to go to Times Square for the New Years (because of work again), I went without him and that made him even angrier. It was a lifetime dream of mine and I'd been mentioning it for over a year and trying to go for the past three years. Instead, I spent them with him. This year I wanted to look after my own welfare and fulfill a dream. He said I should have spent the holiday with him this year since he asked me to marry him, but what about him sending me home alone to tell my family we're getting married?

He refuses to talk to me or see me now, saying that he needs time (just like this past summer). I can't believe he is so angry, I should be the one who is angry and saying the hurtful things, not him. Had he never tried to sabotage our relationship with this job and then try to "fix" the situation by proposing, then we wouldn't be in this mess. He's trying to put the blame on me and I know it's not my fault. A few weeks ago, I was his best friend and, according to him, the nicest person he knew, now he won't have anything to do with me.

He makes it seem like it's all about my crying about the move and my trip to Times Square, but when I think about everything, I almost feel like the SA stuff is coming back. It seemed like he was progressing along slowly but steadily and then suddenly, around the time of the job stuff, he started acting like it was all resolved instantly and things started moving super fast.

I don't know what's going on?


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#57478 - 01/15/04 07:09 PM Re: Hurt and confused
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Just one word is coming to my mind !

WOBBLE !

I can just tell you that male survivors don't like being reminded about where bounderies stand ! You just did that which is very brave.
I don't think proposing is a nice thing to do when the motivation lies trully elsewhere !
Maybe your man is pushing you away to sort out heavy stuff and does not want to give you the right reason because he is proud and he wants to prove he is a REAL man, which means sorting out his problems on his own !
Good luck and give him time ! (I know I know this is not fair ! People keep telling me that about V. as well and I DON'T want to be patient !)
Be strong, love is such a wonderful thing !
Caroline

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#57479 - 01/16/04 06:40 PM Re: Hurt and confused
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
I know I have been riding this pretty hard lately, but I really think it's about survivors "testing" their loved ones.

If he expects to be let down, or feels that he deserves it, then he's going to be constantly trying to reinforce that belief by manipulating the actions of the people around them--testing them, and setting them up to fail the tests. There is no way for you to react to his proposal that is in line with yourself and what he knows of you, that will make him happy. He knows this. He must know of your attachments to your family, home, etc. If you did what he "wanted you" to do, then you wouldn't be you, and not being the person you've been to him is another way of failing the test. Same thing with the situation over the holidays.

I don't know if I have any answers for this. I think this testing behavior is rooted very deeply and so are the beliefs of worthlessness and fear that cause them. I know that in my case, when I "went along" with the test and did what my boyfriend asked of me (ignore the problems, trust him despite evidence to the contrary, give in to/ forgive his recklessness), I "failed" anyway because I made him feel like I didn't care anymore, I was just saying whatever he wanted to hear like everyone else always had. I "passed" the test eventually by sticking up for myself and showing him that I both loved him and wanted to help him, and that I was not about to ruin myself trying. But I had been trying to show him that for some time and he only saw it when he was ready to. There is no way to win this until he figures out what he's doing to you.

Peace and good luck
SAR


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#57480 - 01/16/04 07:07 PM Re: Hurt and confused
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Quote:
If he expects to be let down, or feels that he deserves it, then he's going to be constantly trying to reinforce that belief by manipulating the actions of the people around them--testing them, and setting them up to fail the tests.
"Ouch - that hurts !"
Because I know how much I used to do just that.

Whether I 'knew' I was doing it is another question though.
I would hate to think it was a completly concious behavior, but equally I hate to make excuses for something I could have controlled.
I think it was one of those deals where the motivation was a mystery to me, but obviously I did have to do some mental gymnastics to arrange the 'failures' that happened all around me.

Looking back - life was pretty s*****y at times \:\(

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57481 - 01/19/04 06:17 PM Re: Hurt and confused
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
He refuses to talk to me or see me now, saying that he needs time (just like this past summer).
Yes definitely the SUPER WOBBLE.. also this sounds like a power struggle or at least a control issue.

However, what is glaring to me is the swing between the proposal and cutting you out. This isn't love. This is control and manipulation.
This isn't the stuff on which a solid marrige is made. Marriages between NON SA partners is hard enough.

Do you want to be in a relationship with someone who negotiates that way?

Dont buy the shit he's dealing that it is YOUR fault.. my fiance is the KING of projection and there is nothing more emotion-provoking than projection.. stay calm.. stay focussed.. dont cave into the crap... walk away if you have to.. if you mean as much to him as he says he'll go to the ends of the earth to be with you. If not, better to know now before you walk down the aisle!

P


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#57482 - 01/20/04 01:54 PM Re: Hurt and confused
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Sorry Dave! Wasn't trying to sting you!

Quote:
"Ouch - that hurts !"
Because I know how much I used to do just that.

Whether I 'knew' I was doing it is another question though.
I would hate to think it was a completly concious behavior, but equally I hate to make excuses for something I could have controlled.
I don't think anyone can "control" this anymore than they can control any other emotional response. It's a more complicated version of telling yourself to stop crying. (or, to start crying?...)

I can't find any kind of solution to this problem while it's going on. All of my insights in this thread came after the fact. And most of them are my boyfriend's insights. I don't think I could have possibly understood how much of his life was about trying to push people into letting him down unless he had figured it out for himself and told me about it. \:\( \:\( And who wants to proctor THAT exam all day?

This is really hard, man.

SAR


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#57483 - 01/20/04 02:31 PM Re: Hurt and confused
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:

This is really hard, man.
Quote of the century!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.............. Just when I think I'm at the breaking point.. dealing with my fiance's SA, knowing he'll be prosecuting his perp, work such a battle, my own anxieties and issues, along comes something else.... My house is currently under major renovations and the repair guys trashed most of my stuff.. i've not had a place to live since Jan 5!!!

I'm cracking up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P


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#57484 - 01/20/04 07:21 PM Re: Hurt and confused
lindts Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 26
[[/QUOTE]I don't think anyone can "control" this anymore than they can control any other emotional response. It's a more complicated version of telling yourself to stop crying. (or, to start crying?...)[/QUOTE]

I wish I would have read the thread on wobble before this incident, then I wouldn't have come back to the site so bruised and confused.

Where do I start/end my compassion and end/start my anger at him? If he can't control it, then how can I not have compassion for him, yet as understanding and supportive that I've tried to be, how can he be so mean with his words? I worry that every confrontation will lead to his "flight" response.

How can I expect him to make me feel secure in the relationship, if I am suppose to give him space and time, and not prod him into opening up about his thoughts?

Do survivors, during these times, feel bad about being mean to their loved ones? And do they spend half the time thinking/worrying about these bad situations like the partners do. Even as I try to stay in the "working zone", I'm angry that my mind and heart are constantly worried about him all day.

I want to be there for him because I can remember the way he was before the SA stuff came flooding back. He's not to blame for the SA so how can I not be there for him? Is that what "for better or worse" is about? (Enlighten me PLEASE, I've never been married)

Thank you for all the words of encouragement, everyone... I really, really, REALLY need to hear them.


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#57485 - 01/20/04 07:35 PM Re: Hurt and confused
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Quote:
Do survivors, during these times, feel bad about being mean to their loved ones? And do they spend half the time thinking/worrying about these bad situations like the partners do. Even as I try to stay in the "working zone", I'm angry that my mind and heart are constantly worried about him all day.
Oh yes, I'd feel bad, but I'd get over it with a fantasy, thinking about which tires to use on the 4x4 at the weekend, all the 'important stuff'

It's a great defence and coping stratergy, we piss people off so they don't come too close, blame them for it, and retire gracefully into our little world. Only popping out for food, drink and laundry.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#57486 - 01/21/04 04:00 PM Re: Hurt and confused
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
Who says you can't be compassionate and angry at the same time?

You must feel angry because you feel hurt and insecure in your relationship, and your hurt and insecurity are not being addressed. I'd bet that if he could make you see that he does recognize and understand your feelings a little (or, to put it another way, if he "felt bad"), a lot of your anger would vanish.

But if you're not compassionate with him, he'll never tell you that he recognizes your hurt, even if he does. And if you are compassionate with him to the point of sacrificing your own needs and feelings, you'll feel taken for granted and just get angrier.

It's not fair.

I know this "flight" reaction. My boyfriend and I will be talking and if I bring up anything related to the period of time when he was cheating (including things that have nothing to do with him cheating), his eyes glaze over and he can't listen anymore. I know that he actually does this BECAUSE he feels bad. He doesn't want to face feeling bad for what he's done. He doesn't want to think about/ remember how he's hurt me. This isn't fair either. If I have to spend the rest of our life avoiding our (his) bad memories then it's not healing at all, at least not to me. But on the other hand, I can't say I blame him. If I were the one who'd done something terrible, I wouldn't want to talk about it either. He's afraid that talking about it will "remind me" (like I could forget). I know that I'm just going to have to reassure him, a lot more, that I'm not just going to up and leave him one day over something I haven't left him over yet.

There is a way, I think, for you to get the validation you need without having him apologize for everything he's ever done wrong to you. But maybe sometimes that's what they're afraid of? That one apology will result in a demand for his whole list of sins? That if he starts admitting how he's hurt you, then you'll figure out that he's really not worth it?

This is tough for him and for you. But "for better or for worse" is also for him and for you. He's going to have to confront his fears, and start recognizing your anger, if he's serious about making a relationship work. If you're having all of the better and all of the worse, and he's just being "okay-but-not-really" in his own little world, that's not what long term relationships are made of.

He may not to blame for his actions, but he does have to start being responsible for them.

Sar


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