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#57250 - 01/05/04 11:02 PM difficult lessons - sad feelings
bountiful1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 52
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Hi everyone.

I am fairly new here. (since the conference). I am a fairly wide eyed and naive individual. It was the part of me that came forward to save me from harming myself or the sveral men who abused me.

I um - have not been in a chat room. I have a huge fear of them. A person can say whatever they want and not one letter of it can be truthful. If I was in their presence I would be able to tell if they were being truthful by their behavior and actions (the how of the what they are speaking to). A person can be anything they want to be on the internet; and because of that I don't feel safe in a "chat" room. I suppose that there is a caution in that.

There is also the terrible fault of always taking words literally. This does a huge disservice to communication, because it takes away the universal truth that people sometimes speak before thinking. Because there is not the presence of emotion as well as the other aspects of being in a persons presence, it is dificult to make adjustments. By that I mean to accept that a mistake might have been made and to act from character rather than from opinion.
This is the unfortunate problem that comes from refering to words printed on a screen as chatting. In the presence of soemone it is much easier to understand and respect them. And by respect them I mean understand their intention.

It is a connundrum however, because not being face to face with a real person also gives us the ease and supposed safety of speaking to a truth that - maybe - we are not ready to speak to in a more real -(give and take) - face to face format.

I suppose what I feel I need to say after reading about the past angry exchanges - and sometimes very violent words... is that - one thing I have learned in all of this I have been forced to have to delve in to becasue of the actions of those many many men - is:

practice accepting other people's projections with grace. (hopefully they will do the same for you).


I have tried very hard to respond with as much emotional support as I can - whenever I have had the chance - and to as many posts as I can in the half hour I have to do this a few times a week. I have chosen not to post here for the last month or so, but I feel very strongly that:

if we do our very best to respect everybody else's possible reason for being here - and never assume that we have the right to cross any boundary that we have not asked that person if we could cross; well, then we would be raising ourselves above how the abusers treated us. I was taught in school that the only way I can really do my work as I must and still be a part of things - is to do what I have to do with an eye towards knowing when and how I have to adjust to others. (To know when the moment is about me and to know when the moment is not about me, and to act accordingly. I can always get back to myself later).

I am not trying to tell anyone how to behave, I am just forwarding the only thing that has worked for me in my recovery and life. ( I do not see the two as separate. I also do not see what I need to do as ever being any more important than what anyone else ever has to do).

Sorry If I move around a bit. It is my profession to allow all things to flow with an eye towards acting with character. Also, I am not educated in teh high school sense of teh word, so I know not how to write or spell. However, I ahve learned that if soemone cannot accept my faults with grace - they are not worth spending time with. (They are not treating me as an individual).

Bla, Bla, Bla as the saying goes. I assumed a lot when I came here, and I am just dismayed that people I have come to love and respect feel the need to go. (I pray and hope that they will come back knowing that there is love here). I shouldn't say "just dismayed. I forgot that saying that is a way of demeaning myself or others. Hopefully I am never "just" doing anything. (And I know that I do not have the right to form an opinion like that anout what anyone else might be doing). I have learned - in a hard way - that this internet thing is not as safe as I had assumed. Someone I was involved with who became very abusive came here, picked a "handle" and put made up stuff here as posts. I found that very frightening and have not posted since. I hope that this fear will subside, but my belief - however naive - that this was a 100% safe place to post was shaterred - at least for a time.

That having been done to me I hope is not any indication of the experience of others who come here. This is really it as far as being on the internet goes. And I love the idea of saying things here anonymously. it gives me a freedom I cannot find - even in group therapy. But, I have learned that I for one was not neccessarily safe here.

I have taken great pride in being able to read the very poigniant and pointed (I assume) truths that have been put out here. I ahve a mountain of respect for anyone who can speak to the point and do no harm whilst doing it.

I just wanted (sorry - nobody just does anything!!!) - I forget sometimes... I want to say that I have been frightened by that guy coming here. But more than that, I am saddened that things got so angry here. Remember, what we come heer to speak to is an angry angry subject. It is hard to see the struggles of each other as we - maybe - pause - think - stuggle - fear - change - edit - feel stragely - abotu as we stumble towards typing words here. Without the rpesence of teh individual it is easy to be literal - we only have the words to go on. I do not believe one word of people who talk to me and are doing the act of chosing their words to make an impression. I have no interest in anyone manipulating their words to make an impression or to give me an image of them. That is what I call lying. The emotion and intention of what they are saying inform me of the truth of what they are saying behind their words. That I can adjust to. If soemone is sad, I can comfort them. If someone is impatient, I can demand patience. If someone is angry, I can defend myself or wait until they cool off. If someone is laughing, I can sit with them. Emotions I can interact with. A list of things has nowhere to go; so One never has to execise one's character. The internet takes interaction out of words. So, this is a tough place.

It is sad that lessons are more easily learned in hind sight. But, thank God we have the ability to appologize.

Blessings,

Ash

_________________________
I do not know what signature means in 300 words. I am guessing some thoughts?

Great book that captures the truth of PTSD: The Sentimentalists by Skibsrud

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#57251 - 01/05/04 11:11 PM Re: difficult lessons - sad feelings
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
For someone who claims not to know about writing I have to say that this post is truly amazing. It gets to the heart of the issue in such a gentle and caring way. It is an honour to be your brother

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#57252 - 01/06/04 02:54 AM Re: difficult lessons - sad feelings
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Ash - I read in a high school guidance office this saying: It's better to do right than to be right. My doing right is to protect my recovery while assisting others in their recovery; to know when I'm doing right verses being right!

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#57253 - 01/06/04 09:37 AM Re: difficult lessons - sad feelings
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
This is a great post!!

Originally posted by ashr:

Quote:

I um - have not been in a chat room. I have a huge fear of them. A person can say whatever they want and not one letter of it can be truthful.

Unfortunately this is the case with any internet medium.. it is all to easy to hide behind the machine/connection and be a bit more callous.. some of us here are really connecting but as we have seen that does not stop others from not being very flippant or callous. Unfortunately I've seen this in my own work emails.. it is SO easy to be misunderstood.. I have seen emails cause so many fights and disagreements!!!

Just a question - are there any ways to ban these offensive people from the chat room? I dont go on the chat room as it is for men only and also I have a connection through a firewall and such chatrooms just dont work.. but I was wondering...

anyhow...

Quote:

There is also the terrible fault of always taking words literally. This does a huge disservice to communication, because it takes away the universal truth that people sometimes speak before thinking.

Exactly. Sometimes its just hard to find the right word.. also some people here english is not their first language.. so we should really try to take it easy on those folks especially!!!


Quote:

>>>if we do our very best to respect everybody else's possible reason for being here - and never assume that we have the right to cross any boundary that we have not asked that person if we could cross; well, then we would be raising ourselves above how the abusers treated us.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Remember, what we come heer to speak to is an angry angry subject. It is hard to see the struggles of each other as we - maybe - pause - think - stuggle - fear - change - edit - feel stragely - abotu as we stumble towards typing words here.
DOUBLE AMEN!!!!!

The painful topics that we are talking about on here are bound to give rise to hot emotions from time to time.. it is so hard. It is so hard in my "real life" to discuss these things without my partner getting upset.. without me getting upset.. I would think that naturally things would be so close to the surface for all of us that I am amazed that things dont go off the rails more often than they do!!!!!


P


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#57254 - 01/06/04 11:46 PM Re: difficult lessons - sad feelings
bountiful1 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 52
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Hi!

Thanks much for the replys and all the pms. They're great.

Scotty Todd. I don't understand your reply. ??? I am only interested in doing right. Unless a person is a world renowned and recognized genius in my field, I give their opinion no value; and only when they were refering to their field is their opinion of value, but the few legendary people I have met would phrase it that way anyways.

(I don't think it is necessarily BETTER to act right than to be right. I don't think that being right is in a war ("acting right versus being right") with acting right. One can be wrong and still act with character towards others. And I suppose one can be right and act lovingly or hurtfully.

I would not think it would be possible to be right about much; or even neccesary to be right in order to do right. (At school we were taught that character comes from having to do what you absoluetly have to do in spite of whether we want to or not).

I know that it is not possible to always know that one is doing right. That is what apologies are for I would guess. (The thing we were taught in school was the hardest thing to do truthfully, but the most important act to cultivate in ourselves).

I also know that I can only do right by someone else if I am attentive to how what I am doing is landing on them.

I don't want to have to protect myself, although I know that is a harsh reality of how wrteched people are to each other. Rather than protect myself, I would like to live without having to be on guard that much. But rather live more peacefully than that.

I am not interested in anyone's opinion. I am not interested in my own opinions. I am interested in what I know from having experienced it, and in cultivating humility to the things I have no experience in so that I can empathize with others as much as and not before or after myself. (In cultivating humility so that I can learn to act better). I have been very lucky in my personal relationships having never gone bad. I guess that is becasue I know that what I think isn't neccessarily so; so I am always open to let them be.

(I am lucky in my work in that we have very strict rules about people not being allowed to spout their opinions. Our time is always limited and precious, so your opinions are of no value. Only what you know to be true from your experience. There is no time to waste on what people think, we just have to get things done.


I only ever hope(pray) to act right. (Being right is for lawyers (Ha Ha)... and those who think critically as opposed to inclusively/helpfully/thoughtfully).


Best to you in all you do.

Asher

_________________________
I do not know what signature means in 300 words. I am guessing some thoughts?

Great book that captures the truth of PTSD: The Sentimentalists by Skibsrud

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