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#57019 - 01/02/04 03:08 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Thanks Kolisha for bringing up the subject.
I have also feel hurt by the "all male exclusive forum" because I can't understand that women can read but not reply ! I understood that there is a private members chat room and forum so I don't really get it.
I can feel that the delicate issue behind all this is safety and trust. They are some very delicate issues that are brought up in the male forum that would never appear in the Family and Friends where the posts come mainly from partners.
I am a partner but also a survivor, I can learn from guys but I believe my experience as a survivor, a partner and also the friend of other male survivors could benefit other guys.
It actually happened yesterday on the chat room of http://www.inceste.org where I spent hours chatting with a guy.
So far, no male survivor has ever complained about receiving the point of view of a woman. I have had the experience of discussing compulsive masturbation with a French male survivor on the phone (even more personal than the internet right ?). And you know what ? The most amazing and helpful thing for him was that he could actually tell his dark secret to a WOMAN ! The feeling of shame and guilt disappeared but what he thought impossible: "a woman accepting him without despise, criticism..." was actually possible.
But I am a survivor myself so maybe my understanding of the feelings, hurt, pain, issues of a male survivor make more sense to me because I experience the pain and the difficulty of healing myself.
On http://www.inceste.org , there are open forums : the main ones are "survivors forum" and "partners forum". I remember there has been a post on compulsive masturbation and the response were mixed, guys and girls,sharing their experiences, issues, strategies..and a guy actually saying that he did not feel there was such a huge gap between men and women.
I have personnally responded in private to a few guys after reading their posts but sometimes I felt "my words could have helped someone else too, what a pity".
When I posted about V (I was hoping to be able to exchange views with male survivors whose perp was their mother), my post was moved and I must admit I was shocked, felt uncomfortable and not really accepted.
I am just sharing how I feel but I must repeat that being a survivor, I strongly feel like one of you guys !
Warmest regards and again happy New Year to you all, with all my heart
Caroline

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

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#57020 - 01/02/04 04:25 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Caroline,
Quote:
I have also feel hurt by the "all male exclusive forum" because I can't understand that women can read but not reply ! I understood that there is a private members chat room and forum so I don't really get it.
I think the idea is that, for some guys (not all by any means) the idea of discussing these topics with a woman is frightening/upsetting/uncomfortable. Personally, when my wife and I started our counseling together, I deliberatly sought a female counselor "just in case" my past would come up.

There is a private forum, but it is for dues paying (or sweat equity paying) members. I hardly ever go to chat, but it is not reserved for males, as far as I know. I don't know what kind of response a woman would get in the chat rooms, though. I would hope it would be respectful, but for some guys a woman's presence might be triggering.
Quote:
I am a partner but also a survivor, I can learn from guys but I believe my experience as a survivor, a partner and also the friend of other male survivors could benefit other guys.
I know the experience of survivors helps other survivors. I participated in a weekend retreat in December with male and female survivors. It was a great help to me.

But that's me. There are guys here who do not share that sentiment. When those guys point out that there isn't anyplace else specifically for guys, it's hard to refute. (I know, I have visited other web sites related to male survivor issues. This is still the biggest by far and many of the others are not interactive.)
Quote:
I am just sharing how I feel but I must repeat that being a survivor, I strongly feel like one of you guys !
As a survivor, to me, you are "one of us." Some guys don't see it that way, though.

In the thread I mentioned above (the one that was deleted) I said I would like a forum where male survivors and anyone intersted in male survivors could post. I think the Unmoderated forum is not the place for it. It's not Off Topic. It's not specifically Family and Friends. As I imagine it, it's a place where anyone interested can discuss the issues related to recovery from childhood sexual abuse. I know (believe me, I know) that sexual abuse of males is a "best kept secret." I know this is Male Survivor. My take is that the problem is sexual abuse, not abuse of males, or abuse of females, or abuse of red heads, or abuse of unathletic kids, or any other "specialization."

In a recent thread I was one of several who admitted to relating more easily with women than with men. I know I have heard my experience in the words of women survivors at SIA meetings. To me many of the issues are the same for all of us.

In my best of all possible worlds, the Male Survivor forum stays all male for the sake of the guys who feel so strongly about it. But we add a moderated forum for people like me (and perhaps like you) who want open discussion with survivors and pro-survivors alike. Providing that service does not take anything away from the guys who don't want to use that forum any more than having a forum for gay survivors takes away from hetero folks.

Thanks,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbrokenÖ"óThe Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#57021 - 01/02/04 07:32 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
i can understand how having the male survivor forum Ďread onlyí can be frustrating and difficult. i think most of the guys can, because many of the sites for survivors are just like, except they exclude men.

but i tend to look at the male survivor forum as a something that is specifically for males to relate their experiences and share them with one another. maybe thatís just me, but thatís how i see it. there really arenít any places where men can do that, and, from what iíve read and can see from how it affected women, itís a good thing. you canít go from polarization to generalization and just skim past half the issue. itís necessary for the male perspective to be heard and for men to have a voice outside of that of women.

i think having another forum would be a good idea. it could be one where any of the posts that women read in the male survivor forum could be discussed as well as opening the floor the issue of abuse in general. itís great, as well as the site remains here for creating awareness that males are victims of abuse as well, because, from a societal, media, political, and therapeutic standpoint, itís still widely considered minimal, unimportant, nonexistent, or any combination of those three.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#57022 - 01/02/04 08:38 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
unknownsoldier Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 105
Loc: Northwest
I feel for anyone who feels excluded by this site, but I strongly support the men only aspect of this particular bulletin board. If people want another forum, great. IMHO

Jim


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#57023 - 01/04/04 03:50 AM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
Tribear Offline
Member

Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 66
Loc: USA
I would like to see the male survivor forums reserved for posts by male survivors.

I appreciate the women who respect that boundary. I know the messages can still be read, and you can always PM someone and ask to talk off-forum. There are other places here to post publicly.

I searched the Internet for 2 years before I found this place. Some sites are female-only, others are mixed.

This site is the ONE place where I usually don't have to worry about the issue becoming gender clashes, instead of the topic in the thread. I really need that.

Privacy and respect help people heal. As I see it, if someone heals, everyone benefits.

Thanks,

Ed


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#57024 - 01/04/04 04:53 AM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I have been usually okay with the ladies here. I have had some time of discomfort with it also though. But there is a young friend that I have recommended this site to, who I feel very protective of, and upon hearing of his discomfort and fears due to females in the chat room, and then reading this post, I felt need to make some comments. This is not directed really at anyone, but I feel frustrated, and angry that my friend feels less safe here now. He, as all of us, deserve to feel safe here. And this is not directed at Caetel, but her post most is what says some things I wish to address, so I am using quotes from there.

Quote:

I have also feel hurt by the "all male exclusive forum" because I can't understand that women can read but not reply ! I understood that there is a private members chat room and forum so I don't really get it.
I had looked for quite some time for an 'all male' site for healing from this. There are many, many all female sites. There are many 'mixed' site, which are predominantly, by at least 75%, women. I have been at sites that are SUPPOSED to be for female AND male survivors, and have been attacked for my gender. When I came here, it was because it is called MALEsurvivor, and I thought, finally, I will be accepted, even with my facial hair and sometime rude habits. And to say that there is a private members area and chat, that seems to be implication that if MALE survivors at the MALE survivor site wish for a place only of their own, they must pay for it. While there are a hundred sites for female survivors for free.

Quote:
I am a partner but also a survivor
I am sorry that you also have had to survive this. But, at this site, in this context, you are a partner. Because, presumeably, you are here to help HIM, not to work on your own personal issues. (Not saying that anyone else can't get something from here that CAN help themselves; but hoping that is not the motivating factor in being here, but to help the OTHER person they care about).

Quote:
So far, no male survivor has ever complained about receiving the point of view of a woman.
Perhaps that is true of the other site you go to. At this one, I believe WhyMe and Al specifically would disagree with that statement, and some of the other members who added their thoughts to the threads started by those two men.

Quote:
I am just sharing how I feel but I must repeat that being a survivor, I strongly feel like one of you guys !
Not meaning to be flippant, or for this remark to be simple, as there is more in the context then the obvious; but, unless you have a penis, you are not one of 'us guys'. Yes, male or female, survivors of sexual abuse are going to be similar in many ways, and feel many similar things, and perhaps 'act out' in many similar ways. But, just as men and women are remarkably different (as those 'mars and venus' books will tell you), male and female survivors are going to have remarkable differences.

I said it in one other thread. If one MALE survivor is made to feel unsafe or uncomfortable because of the inclusion of women in the male forum (or now, in my mind, in the chat room), that is one too many. The friend I recommended this site to, he is greatly needing to feel safe. And now, because of the chat room problem, he doesn't, and may not return. THAT is not right.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#57026 - 01/04/04 10:38 AM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
WHY in the world would a woman want to be in the men's chat room?

I can understand READING the posts in the men's forum, as my greatest learning has come from there, which has DRASTICALLY changed my life because of my new found awareness. I understand the post restrictions. SOME guys are not comfy with it, and that should be the priority. It's the whole reason for this whole place. I do PM people occasionally, which gets the same job done, only a bit more privately, right?

I agree with Leosha, we're never gonna be 'one of the guys'. They will never have babies, and we will never totally understand their hormones!

The message board issue has been "handled" I think, for the most part, but the chat thing, ugh! From some of the things I have heard about it...from some of the guys...THAT seems like it could be potentially "dangerous" for even the guys sometimes.

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

Ė Anne Lamott

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#57027 - 01/04/04 01:37 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
roger Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 15
Loc: Canada
Message deleted at Roger's request

Lloydy


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#57028 - 01/04/04 02:08 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
Pollyanna Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 211
Loc: Missouri
Hey Roger,

ACtually, I think the decision was NOT to allow women free reign in the male forum. It was made clear that we shouldn't be posting there, and I fully support that decision. There's even a little "disclaimer" thing on the top of the page. I have PM'd people though, as some have become dear to me, and others I have wanted to "suport". I admit, I did post there when I first came here, cuz I didn't "get it". Dave was very kind, and told me what it was really for. I appreciated that, and I quit posting there immediately. That was months ago.

Can I humbly ask to be seen as an individual though, and not be grouped in with the 'complainers'? I had come here for help for a kid, and WOW did I get tons! I am eternally grateful! You guys are amazing, and I am quick to tell you that.

I didn't complain, because it doesn't accomplish anything. I "reported" progress and setbacks, because I wanted direction. Not from the angle of how it affected 'me', but more "what am I seeing" and...any suggestions?" Thank you so much to the wonderful people who provided it. I always try to remain positive, that's why I'm "Pollyanna"!! I have 'vented' occasionally, but in PMs to people who know what I need.

I am so touched, and so sorry that there is so much sadness and hurt, that places like these are even necessary. I really want to do whatever I can to "alleviate" whatever I can. Really...if it's even a remote possibility that some little stupid thing "I" could ever say would even make a difference. I will never quit trying to show goodness, cuz there's a lot of that in the world too.

I hope you find peace.

Hugs,

Lynn

_________________________
"Hope begins in the dark, the stubborn hope that if you just show up and try to do the right thing, the dawn will come. You wait and watch and work: you don't give up."

Ė Anne Lamott

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#57029 - 01/04/04 02:26 PM Re: Discussion Board Boundaries
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
two things:

one, i think it's clear that all that's being asked is that males have a place where it's only for them. reading is one thing, and it's similar to listening, you can tell someone not to do it, but if they're right there, they'll hear it. posting is another thing, and to me, it's just a boundary issue. no one should be put in the position to have their boundaries pushed, broken, or tweaked in any with way without wanting to. and no one should have to feel like they can't post here because it isn't safe, and that goes for both genders. still, everyone needs a little breathing room to be with others just like them. there's nothing wrong with sharing our experiences, but that sharing should be willing, not forced. guys need to have the opportunity to expressed themselves and relate outside of women, that's all any of us are asking for.

two, and i'm not usually the one to say something like this about an issue like this, but i think its had its moment. this is getting to the point where people are defending the issue instead of discussing the issue. and it's totally moved away from kolisha's original question. the last few posts seemed a little tense (granted i started it), and it's starting to get slightly warm. so i'm wondering if we can turn the heat down a little, or maybe just step outside for a moment, and then come back.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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