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#56758 - 12/16/03 09:34 AM Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
blue Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 11
My husband grew up in a single parent family. His mother was his only caregiver. The problem is that she was also in need of someone to give her emotional comfort and turned her son into her submissive husband. He was easy to control, as his very existence depended on her. He was very young when she began leaning on him and using him to meet her needs. His food, shelter, affection, and education came from her. His view of himself and the world came largely from her.

My husband is now in his forties, but he is still largely dependent on her. In addition, when she is displeased with him, she still uses the same tactics of threatening to withdraw her support, which when he was a child threatened his very existence. These tactics still work, because he still responds to them with fear and eventual compliance.

He is largely in denial that she has control over him. On the rare occasions when he does admit it, he says he feel powerless to do anything differently. He says that he is unable to meet his own needs and therefore is stuck remaining in this intolerable situation of dependence on people who hurt him.

He is so fearful of allowing anyone authority over him, that he has rarely had a job, because if he were employed, he would have to have a boss. In fact, it has been over ten years since he has even attempted to find a job.

He has substance abuse issues and health issues as well. His physical health is deteriorating in front of my eyes and I am powerless to help him. There are many things he can do differently to fight the diseases that are literally killing him, but he refuses. When asked about this, he responds by saying that he should have never been created and if he does not actively participate in getting closer to death on a daily basis, he feels even more hopeless and powerless.

He contributes to his worsening health on a daily basis by:
*smoking 3-4 packs of cigarettes a day
*indulging in his substance to kill the pain
*refusing to take the medication necessary to control a disease he has
*refusing to go to doctors or to participate in diagnostic exams that could refine & improve current recommendations to better health.
*refusing to get any exercise
*eating harmful foods consisitently

Generally, on the days he has his substance of choice, he is just passively suicidal by doing the things listed above.

It is when he runs out of substance that he talks of a swifter method of suicide. This is also when he becomes enraged at the condition of his life. It is then when I sometimes become afraid of him. This pattern has become very predictible.

His mother continues to supply him with the money necessary to purchase the substance and cigarettes. This is necessary to keep him addicted, so that he must come back to her. She supplies him with other things too, like a car and a pager. The car serves her purposes in that he can run her errands for her. The pager is so she can have 24/7 access to him.

She hates me and has sucessfully turned his entire family against me. They know nothing of her abuse or control over him. That being the case, I can not count on any of them to help me help him.

She is a prominent member of the community where we live and has a very healthy income. She is seen by the family and others in the community as a loving, compassionate woman who had the unfortunate experience to have a "good for nothing" son. The perception is that she has sacrificed for years to take care of him, as any good mother would. He, in turn, has taken advantage of her good nature and misused her support. This is how outsiders see it, because this is what she has wanted them to see.

So this is the situation:

She abuses him which causes him to act in ways that any injured person would.

Then she uses his behavior against him to "prove" that he is worthless.

She must continue controlling him so she then gives him money and other financial support. After all, if she didn't give him anything, what would have to threaten him with? She can't withdraw what hse doesn't offer.

Because of the financial support she offers him, she receives the admiration and emotional support from her family and friends for being so generous!

Her plan works brilliantly! She gets to control him and to be admired and respected by others in the process.

I hate what she is doing to him, but I must admit, she does it well.

I hate it that he allows her to continue to do it. I hate that he spends most of his time in denial.

He is the most intelligent person I have ever met. (Not the wisest, but the most intelligent.) He is articulate, funny, insightful (except when it comes to mother), loving and truly has a compassionate heart. He is too beautiful to be destroyed by this evil woman and her selfish ploys to meet her own needs.

How can I help him? What can I do to help free him from his fears and to help him believe that the beauty I see in him is real? That he really can survive with out her? How can I help him to see that he does not have to continue to be humiliated by her? How can I help him to believe in himself enough to step out, away from the fear and begin to do things for himself? How can I help him to trust himself?

If she can successfully enable him to hurt himself, why can't I find a way to enable him to help himself? Please help me to help him.

It breaks my heart to see him hurting. I know that I can not know the pain he feels. I also know that I can not make his choices for him. I love him more than I have ever loved anyone. There must be a way to help him. Please help me find it. For every evil thing people can do to each other, doesn't there have to a loving kind act or method to counteract it?

Please help me help him. ANY responses will be welcome.


Should I just quietly love him? Should I confront him more often? Should I confront her? Should I just keep affirming the good I see in him? Should I point out when I see her schemes, so he is aware of them, or should I just keep quiet about them? When he wants to be in denial, he gets angry with me for pointing out her manipulations. Which is kinder: making him angry becaue he doesn't want to see the truth or giving him the room to be in denial as long as he needs to be?

If she can enable him to be harmful to himself, can't I enable him to be healthier?

Obviously, SA is a terrible thing. I believe that many of the issues he is dealing with not only have to do with SA, but with the tremendous role a mother has in anyone's life. If any of you have successfully dealt with this kind of total betrayal and twisting of your whole world, PLEASE tell me what you needed, what you wish your loved one(s) would have done differently. Tell me how you got out of the deception and into the safety. Tell me how you found the courage to trust you.

Again, any and all responses are welcome.

_________________________
The opposite of fear is faith. Faith is necessary to love. Move away from the fear toward the love.

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#56759 - 12/16/03 11:06 AM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Blue,
oh how awful it is to know the song of self harm. For not only your hubby, but for those who love him. He surely is my hubby's brother having like "mothers" in so many ways. And us being sisters with MIL's being so same.
I am not sure what the magic code is to help him -- I geuss one of the things that sticks out in your post is the use of a "substance". I am not sure he will be able to deal or heal with his mother until he no longer uses his substance of choice. (my own hubbys was masturbation mixed with occassional pot & alcohol). For MY hubby it was a horrible act that took place during a binge of alcohol & my moving out & on with life that sparked hubby to get help. When the "fog" was lifted from his state of being he was able to "break down" and flood with memories & feelings. He also was very suicidal... it took a "pact" on our entire immediate family to "not kill ourselves" to work toward closing the door of suicide as an option.
You wrote so beautifully is it possible you could print out your post & share it with him? Read it to him or ask him to read it during some alone time... with the understanding that you love him very much and want so much more for him?
Your de>

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#56760 - 12/16/03 11:09 AM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
PS Blue,
if you feel he is in an active state of where he might actually TRY to commit suicide do not hesitate to call your local emergency line & access help... or take him to your closest hospital ... it also could be a start into getting him some much needed help & therapy.
While thinking self harm thoughts can be fairly normal side effect from abuse.. one NEVER knows for sure if another would actually harm themself.
Peace, Sammy


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#56761 - 12/16/03 01:47 PM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
blue,
everything that sammy said is true about men being under the malign influence of a domineering mother. i have lived that life myself and what it took for me to get out from under her control was first the way she treated lady theo, then the recall of my memories of sexual abuse. it took the pain inflicted onto the woman i love for me to make that first step. it is different for every man who has gone through this kind of thing with their maternal perp (i refuse to refer to them with the honorific of motherhood). for some reason, the incest and direct abuse stopped for me when i was twelve, but the emotional incest carried on well into my adulthood. in the end, what it takes is what i call a conversion experience. this is a moment when it all hits the fan and the individual is faced with an either/or choice. for me it was the pain inflicted on lady theo, for sammy's husband it was her moving out. only you can make the decision to take whatever steps you need to take to ensure your own safety and well being. only you can decide whether it will take your leaving, or some other choice to begin the path towards healing for yourself alone. i am not advocating divorce, i went through that hell three years ago and still carry the wounds, but what i am saying is that you can not save him. he has to reach a point in his life when he has to face that decision to remain where he is, or to start healing. talk with him if you can, at a neutral time. he cannot see what he is doing very well because all of this is buried so deep, but if there is a reason for it to become unburied he might be able to start on that journey of healing. pm me if you need to.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#56762 - 12/16/03 05:39 PM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Gawd- this must be an awful situation for you.

**hugs**

I can relate to being in a relationship where there is ongoing "emotional incest" - I dated someone who had a relationship to his mother that was very much like this. I would love to tell you that in the end it all worked out.. but alas..

However.. that was then and this is now...

On to your post:

**Stuff snipped**

>>>the rare occasions when he does admit it, he says he feel powerless to do anything differently. He says that he is unable to meet his own needs and therefore is stuck remaining in this intolerable situation of dependence on people who hurt him.

This is a tough one. Generally people cannot get help until they believe they DO have a problem. The motivation to change MUST come from within and if he does not see he has a problem, there is little you can do to change the situation.

In addition, not only does your partner sound like he is in denial, when he does come out of that he continues to percieve himself in a victim mode. Having spent many years myself stuck in the mindset of a victim it is very easy to just blame, act out, be angry, and not do anything about your situation. When you come from a background where you ARE truly powerless and are being abused for a long time, you truly learn "learned helplessness" even when you are not in the same situation anymore (when you are an adult).

Motivation for change and emotional healing is all about recognizing that there is a trade off - that the user/survivor could lose something valuable unless a change is made. Unfortunately you are often dealing with a trade off of pain - pain of losing a relationship, your kids, your health has to start to become MORE painful than investing time and energy being a victim, drinking, drugs, and denial of the pain of your own abuse.

One of the things that is most curious probably to you is why does your partner continue to allow this to happen. One of the things both my partner and I have acknowledged in our own abuse histories (him S.A. and me verbal/emotional/psychological torment from a abuse-survivor-alcoholic-addict parent) is that there is a certain amount of inner peace and coping possible as the resutl of an ability to deny. And such coping skills were required for us when we were abused kids in order to just "survive the situation". They allowed us to stay in a situation over which we did not have much control.

Now, as adults, in order to fully comprehend and acknowledge the horrors that someone abused us, to acknowledge how WRONG and PAINFUL those experiences were, sometimes the human brain just keeps you in the dark until the point which you are better able to handle the knowledge that something happend to you that was wrong and harmful (denial, dissasociation, repressed memories are examples of how the brain does this). Once that realization hits the conscious, the grief and shame and anger that pours out can be overwhelming and incapacitating for a time.

For me, I didnt have a CLUE that I had grown up in a home that had ANY problems until I left home for university and was separated from that toxic environment. Early in my university career I fell into a deep depression and I could not sleep and I could not eat much for about 2 years... at that point I realized I had a SERIOUS problem...

Unfortunatley in your situation you are dealing with an "active substance user". Active users are altering their minds and moods with the substances, and hence have NO motivation to make any changes in their lives. An addict has to FEEL their pain and make motivational changes from that pain rather than turning to self medication. All to often, though, the addictive substance masks that pain, hence no motivation to change, maintaining an ability to stay in denial, etc... and you have the situation your partner is in now.

I *do* apologize if I have not been able to provide any magic bullet.

Today my father still has no motivation to change - he's in essence a 'dry drunk' - fights the urges to drink/use drugs daily and has stopped the drinking but has not undergone the emotional processing to reduce the pull of the substances on his life, NOR has he ever learned that he is NOT a victim anymore. He still sees himself as that abused child, him against the world, and certainly not an involved actor in the fate of his own life. I am not sure he will ever come to terms with his addiction and his emotional pain and get on with the business of living.. who knows I have long given up on that dream. However, for me and my partner, that is another story.

I did have to come to terms with a lot of crap and really abusive, unhealthy relating he had with me. I realised that I had to make some changes and also realized that I could not push him to change, the only thing I could do was to change my behaviour with him. So, on that note, when things came to a head when I first left home for university, I had to do something about it. What I did do was a) say to him "you have a problem" b) say to him "I cannot sit by and watch you destroy yourself" and c) "if you do not get a grip on your life I do not want to have a relationship with you".

And for awhile I cut myself out of his life because he did not want to change. I had to "walk the walk" of that threat.

Unfortunately, while there was some motivation to quit drinking at that time, in the pursuit of getting better, his doctor just recommended medicating him with addictive tranquilzers which he used for over 10 years.. effectively the doctor o.k'd the trading of one drug for another, and this bad medical advice led him to another health crisis 10 years later.

I know it sounds harsh what i had to do with him but it had to be done for MY MENTAL HEALTH as I was getting pulled down into his misery and abuse.

>>>>He is so fearful of allowing anyone authority over him, that he has rarely had a job, because if he were employed, he would have to have a boss. In fact, it has been over ten years since he has even attempted to find a job.

On that note, my partner, who is ia SA survivor has had issues with anger towards male authority figures. My dad too has had issues with authority and has had a very unstable school and work history. It stems from the abuse they had at the hands of a male authority figure.

My partner has had to do a lot of processing ot get through those feelings and look at his "victim mentality" that was no longer serving himself well in his adult life, getting him into trouble at work, getting him fired, etc.

Unfortuantely as most men who are SA survivors have been abused at the hands of men, this is a very common issue for them.

>>>He has substance abuse issues and health issues as well. His physical health is deteriorating in front of my eyes and I am powerless to help him. It is when he runs out of substance that he talks of a swifter method of suicide.

If you are AT ALL concerned about suicide, run, dont walk, with your partner to an inpatient mental health clinic. The ongoing use of drugs and alcohol, combined with an abuse history can create depression. I really do think that you should give SERIOUS thought to getting your partner INPATIENT help. If you are truly concerned, as I was for my father's health/life when he was very addicted to pre>

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#56763 - 12/17/03 11:48 PM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
blue Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 11
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I am grateful for this site and for the support and advice given here.

Some growth has occurred in me in recent months and hopefully that will continue.
For years, I thought that I could cause him to grow if I

a)just find the right method or

b)if I just love him enough or

c) if I love him in the right way.

Now I know I can not cause him to grow. Now I realize that I can not chose this for him, but he must choose it for himself.

I don't like that fact, but progress has been made because I realize it is a fact.

I think it is critical for my husband to break free of his denial and face his issues before he kills himself. I do not control that and I can not make it happen. I do not want to facilitate his self-destruction.

Until recently, I thought all my anger was only for her, because of what she had done (and continues to do) to him. I am also angry at her because her actions have cost me my place in his life as his wife. She comes first. Then the substance, then me. It hurts to be such a low priority. She has stolen something very precious from me and because it isn't a tangible thing, and because of the denial, she gets away with it. That pisses me off!

What I discovered recently; however, is that I am also angry with him and me! Great!!!

I am angry with him for not protecting me from her. (How could he? He hasn't learned how to protect him yet.) I am angry with him for not loving me enough to face his fears, defeat them and join me in our lives together, without her or her ghost.

Seems like a simple thing to do, right? He could go through that whole process in a few days, right? (Just kidding.)

I know that is an unrealistic expectation. But that is how I feel nevertheless. I am tired of waiting for "Us" to start. I am tired of waiting for an adult husband, instead of having to raise another child. I am tired of trying not to be his parent. ( He keeps setting up situations where he asks my permission to do things, except when it comes to her or substance.)

Because my husband didn't have a Mom, (instead his mother has acted like his wife since before he was in kindergarten), he is lacking something normally received from a Mom. He keeps trying to set me up in a parental role in daily living.

If I am not careful, I slip right into it too. I hate me for that! I do not want to just be a handy substitute for her! I do not want to make his decisions for him.

He needs to make his own decisions and he needs to take responsibility for those decisions. If he wants advice: fine. If he wants my opinion, OK. If he just wants me to listen and care: I can do that all day long. BUT I refuse to take the responsisiblity for him and his life. I am here to help him, not to enable him to hurt himself. The problem is, I can't always see the difference in individual situations. That pisses me off!

I want him to use some of that courage I know he has to face what happened to him and deal with it. I want me to use some of that resourcefulness I know I have and figure out how I can best help him, while not hurting me or him. (It is not my aim to hurt her, but if it happens in the process of helping him, OK.)

I am angry at both him and I for not doing what I know we can.

I am again grateful for any insight, advice, wisdom or comments. Thank you all for your hoesty and willingness to share your experiences and time with me. Experiences and time is what our lives are made of. Our lives are the most valuable thing we have and to share that with another is truly bestowing an honor on them. Thank you for giving that to me.

_________________________
The opposite of fear is faith. Faith is necessary to love. Move away from the fear toward the love.

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#56764 - 12/18/03 12:15 AM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
blue,

Good luck to you as you try to cope with everything.

You'd said you want to try and help him see the situation. is it possible that he believes (and admits to himself, just no one else, not even you) that the situation exists, and he knows he'd like to change it, but he really really feels that he can't change it, ever? And that his anger at your pointing out the situation is just his own anger at his powerlessness? If that's true, you're trying to make him "believe" what he already knows. Maybe you would be better served by taking the situation as given, and trying to help him see the ways in which he can get some control.

I also have a mother who does not deserve the name. And while some of what I have experienced may not apply to men, there are a few things I can tell you from where I stand.

This feeling like you can't change it thing is very strong and powerful when it comes to mothers. A mother influences you before you are even old enough to understand that you are your own person. In some ways what a mother does feels the most inescapable and fundamental to your being. In some terrible way it feels the most true. I've always thought I could change what I wanted to change in my life, do what I wanted to do, think what I wanted to think... except where it concerned my mother... and the more I wanted to change, do, think, the more things there were in my life that concerned her, somehow. You asked if there was a loving act that could counteract every evil act. For me, although I have been lucky to have as much love in my life as I've had, there has been nothing that could change or take back what she's done to me, just things that smooth it over and help me go on being the kind of person that she can never be.

What people have said about conversion experience, snapping out of it, getting away from it, all that has been true for me too. Before that experience, you feel trapped, frozen. Mentally and physically also... unable to speak or feel anything, to do anything. To have that conversion, I had to be physically away from her for a long time, and occupied with other things that took up a lot of my energy, and go through a somewhat horrific "wake-up" experience and I had to be in a place where I was able to do some things that I felt were all my own. Not hers. I had to make some decisions that I could feel proud of. Doing a "proud" "good" thing even though it was a little thing came as a complete shock to me. It made me think for the first time that I would be okay, doing things for myself.

I don't really know how to say what I feel. I feel like I'm rambling here and I'm sorry. You can pm me if you want to talk about it.

Sar


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#56765 - 12/18/03 02:55 AM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
Wifey1 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 380
Blue, Sar & Guize ~
Oh Blue... your so elequent with your words and could be reading my mind & telling my own experiences, feelings, thoughts in so many ways... with out the support of so many of you here I am sure I would have thrown in the towel on this insane part of my life this past yr.
Quote:
For years, I thought that I could cause him to grow if I

a)just find the right method or

b)if I just love him enough or

c) if I love him in the right way.
These are exact thoughts I had for so very long... and in fact in really stressful times my mind returns to those self owning types of thinking. Years ago I read Melody Beatty's book "CoDependant No More", shit I thot I had found the core & answer to my shit stew I was living... (*insert insane lafter here ;\) ). Of course putting to "use" the work she suggests & what the therapist I was working with was a whole new world.
Quote:
Now I know I can not cause him to grow. Now I realize that I can not chose this for him, but he must choose it for himself.
And ya know even for me -- even after I moved out less than 12 hours after finding out about my hubbys crap I STILL have to be reminded its HIS work NOT MINE! Yea, it is a bit liberating when I "get it" ... the release of feeling so damn responsible for someone I love I dearly... yet in the same regard I end up feeling "still so broken" .. and often start a cycle of "must be stupid I cant learn, put into use.. blah blah blah..."
Quote:
I do not want to facilitate his self-destruction.
I hope you dont mind but I think that phrase alone could be a good mantra for me.... to share it with my own hubby... just tonight I got really pissed at hubby for taking steps to buy yet another piece of shit car (blown head) to repair , gas mileage better blah blah shit (he's an auto tech its a way of life for grease monkeys i swear :p )-- so I told him in no uncertain terms it was a bad investment he wasnt making good choices with his money yada yada --- he tells me "If you don't want me to buy it just say so and I wont"... Well HELL I dont want to TELL him what to do I want him to make better decisions! and to PLAN THEM with valid reasons! aaaggghhh so I ended up feeling like a manipulating bitch --- and the truth is its HIS money NOT mine... so I told him that too--- aww it sucked -- and like you I feel anger at his "mother" for shit like this. BECAUSE it STEMS from her being a controlling, neglectful shitty self absorbed abusive, mind controlling, life threatening (fill in every other de>

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#56766 - 12/18/03 03:01 PM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
blue and sammy,
not minimizing the episode over the car that you and your husband experienced, sammy, but i had to smile in one sense. when it comes to such things as our cars, it is similar to the "cult of masculinity" concept put forth by pas. it is dificult to explain to the uninitiated, so to speak, but such things are typically not about cash investment returns. personally, i have a 76 vehical that by all intents and purposes should be towed to the scrap yard and end up in the happy driving grounds that all such cars go to at one point or another. it will take a lot of cash to get this car to where i want it to be and that cash would more appropriately be spent on a number of other more "practical" expenses, but that would be missing the point of such a project. men do this kind of thing even if there was never any abuse in our lives as children, can't explain it, it is just a fact of our gender, however, when the history of abuse is figured in then there is a major difference. abuse of any sort takes away something very fundamental from a child, for boys victimized by their maternal perps, there is something even more drastic that is stolen. in one sense, it is our emerging masculinity that is stolen because we are ripped apart emotionally for being the gender we are. i do not define masculinity by how many cars one works on, or number of grunts per day, or the decisiveness of daily decisions...masculinity, in part, is the comfort we feel in our gender, the confidence we have in ourself as a human being and as a man. this is a large part of what was stolen from us by our maternal perps. there is no confidence or comfort in our gender or daily lives as adults because we do not know how to be confident or comfortable in those roles because the only role we ever had in our formative years was as a toy by our manipulative, maternal perps. along comes a project such as a car that should be junked and for once we have a chance to make something in our image...is it no wonder we try so hard to create what we wish we could be from a broken wreck? it is so difficult for us to be able to see the good things we do accomplish in our relationships with our wives and our children because they are this huge confusing black hole of people and emotions, but a car? it is tangible, and we can see the hands on improvements of our efforts to bring this broken wreck into a showroom screamer that would finally prove to ourselves in a way that is not jumbled with emotions that we are men who can rebuild a shattered hulk.

we know that we can be very frustrating, this is the number one lesson we learned at the knee of our perps, and that is why it is so terrifying for us to face the mystery of our loved ones that share our lives. does this justify the pain and confusion we all suffer from this legacy of survival? not at all. what it does do is show that we try, we really do, but it has to be in ways that we can understand and see that we can rebuild a shattered wreck. take care.

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

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#56767 - 12/18/03 05:00 PM Re: Authority, intimacy, substance abuse & suicidal issues
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by blue:
I think it is critical for my husband to break free of his denial and face his issues before he kills himself. I do not control that and I can not make it happen. I do not want to facilitate his self-destruction.


This is a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE situation to be in. I completely identify as my father has been alcoholic/suicidal off and on my whole life. It seems when you are dealing with this you have two choices - both are shitty. Do you cover up for suicidals and save their lives but just prolong the pain and save yoruself a whole pile of hurt and anger by keeping them alive, or do you let them wallow in their pain in the hopes that they will eventually get help but with the risk of them going off the deep end and killing themselves? What a choice!!!

All the advice in the world says that you should let them wallow in it and let them feel their pain and then they will get help, but there are no guarantees with suicidals. That is one thing that I know all too well.

Again all I can say to you is that those of us dealing with suicidals have to TRY and let them wallow in their own pain enough to let them feel it and hopefully get help but if you are scared that they have gone too far over the line and are a risk to themself then RUN dont walk to get them inpatient help in any way possible... if it is your regions' laws if they are a danger to themselves in some places it is the law that they must go to a hospital - hell call the cops if you have to save their lives...

It is a HORRIBLE situation to be in and I can identify as I have lived my entire life under this threat. My only advice to you is try as much "tough love" as possible - tell him frankly that he has a problem with his substance abuse and his personal neglect and with the relationship and what you will do and what you wont do/put up with, let him deal with that and his other issues and dont cover up for him BUT at the same time be educated, aware and alert to the signs of possible suicide and if you are scared then get professional help should that situation start to arise.

Hugs to you I am there in this struggle with you not with my partner but with my father. You are not alone.

P


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