Newest Members
myrlin, AaronS, BookHouseBoy, WeFallWeRise, kieran
12463 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
arty (46), ava_adore (28), babs (63), bkeithb (49), shylo (34), si (22), universe (33)
Who's Online
5 registered (sentry, Obi, 3 invisible), 31 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12463 Members
74 Forums
63990 Topics
446606 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#56533 - 12/06/03 06:33 PM I love you !
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Sorry, I just needed to scream that to V. tonight. I am feeling sad and I don't know what to do anymore. It has been a week now and V. has been silent. I am left with all my questions and I am going crazy. What does he want me to do ? What is he trying to say ?
I love him but I feel whatever I do is wrong. I am so confused, I can't even call it a relationship because I hold on to nothing: this is not friendship, we are not lovers but we are not strangers, and we are a story. I hold on to nothing and he is not helping.
Is silence another sabotage technique ?
Please help.
Thank you
Caro

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

Top
#56534 - 12/08/03 02:36 PM Re: I love you !
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:


Is silence another sabotage technique ?
Please help.
Unfortunately, yes. Silence, acting out sexually with someone else, fighting, screaming, hurting others, its all in the name of pushing away those that are too uncomfortably close.

I can totally understand how you feel - i had a bad weekend too with my partner. We fought and fought, he gets so nasty and curses me out - If I had a dollar for every time he goes "fuck you I dont want to say anything to you" and the insults..... oh.. the insults, the not so thinly disguised insinuations that somehow there is something wrong with crying, with standing up for myself, etc, etc...

At least I can see an overall trend in my situation, but if there wasn't, I dont know how long I"d be able to hold on to this. Too much of this for too long without any change.. I dont think I could put up with much longer. As it is, I am having a hard time today.

P


Top
#56535 - 12/08/03 06:10 PM Re: I love you !
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Salut PAS

Merci pour ce petit mot qui me rassure. I had a terrible week end, having my own fears knocking at the door, taking me to the edge and to irrational behaviour like wanting to sabotage myself the relationship.
I know Vincent is sorting out heavy stuff right now. I have managed to hold on thanks to you guys (especially Theo who is fantastic !).
So tonight I have written a mail full of love, support, trust...I managed to share the feeling I have been having about his mother who abused him. I told him how much I hated her for what she had done to him. I told V. that even though we have been through a lot (meaning especially our big break up in July), I was still there, I was still holding on. I told him how much I love him and what I especially appreciate in him (being cared for, protected, supported...)
I really hope this letter has reached him. He was on the net tonight so he obviously got it !
My guardian angel is really testing my love and patience these days !
I am holding on and that's a miracle because being a survivor myself, I have never been that far emotionally with a guy. I am in unknown territory too and I am scared to death !
Love to all
Caro

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

Top
#56536 - 12/08/03 07:45 PM Re: I love you !
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Caro

Quote:
Is silence another sabotage technique ?
Yes, add it to the ever lengthening list.

Our 'map' of life was messed up big time as kids, we learned all the wrong stuff, and missed the right stuff.
And I have only just begun to re-learn some of it, at the age of 50. It's not easy.

Although I've been married for 29 years it's been very close to divorce for many of them.
I didn't know how to love, or even live alongside, my wife for much of the time. We lived in the same house, shared a bed, but led different emotional lives.

I wouldn't let her into mine, and I had little to offer. What I had I didn't trust myself enough to let go either.

We're not easy people Caro, and often if I felt that my wife was trying to get in to me emotionaly I would just retreat further and employ bigger and better sabotage. I became World class, an Olympian, at sabotage.

But she persisted, I'm healing, and we now share emotions.
It still scares me at times, but it's worth it.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#56537 - 12/08/03 08:39 PM Re: I love you !
Didon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/03
Posts: 1
Hey Caetel,
I know ... JC is the more talkative guy I know,and now he's been silent for months. I truly believe now silence is the worst thing. It destroys your confidence very slowly. Because you cannot fight silence with words. it simply doesn't work that way.
Don't know how long it may take, don't know if I did the right thing, don't know what he is thinking right now. He never replied my letters and I don't even know if he opened my mails ...
But like you, I have so much to tell him, I want so much to share my feelings with him, I have so many questions to ask him, I need so much his help.
I just do hope he's getting better, day after day.
I'm sure you're doing the right thing. When Vincent will need it, he will be able to grab your hands.
as Dave said, it's worth it !


Didon


Top
#56538 - 12/08/03 11:02 PM Re: I love you !
kolisha54 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/03
Posts: 475
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Hi Everyone!

I don't know about y'all, but I am beginning to wonder if it isn't US who have the problem... WOW! What a bunch of masochists! We partners are all in so much pain! How'd we end up like this? HOw many of us are also survivors ourselves? Personally, in my case, if N. wants his space right now, HE CAN HAVE IT!!! I am going to take some time to enjoy all the wonderful things in my own life! I really hope he heals - and if he wants to find me, he knows where to look. I have certain parameters where I will contact him - holidays, for example, just to reassure him that I am still hovering on the sidelines, but right now it's the sidelines where I want to be. I am not going to let him take control of my emotions by letting him play into my fears of being abandonned. Enough is enough! I love him a lot, but I love ME more! I cannot do his work for him. And if he thinks I "am so close that I'm in back of him" (Groucho Marx) then it is up to N. to simply turn around so that I am once again "in front." I cannot do this for him. Yeah, I guess I'm angry. But not so much at N. as at the creepy selfish perp/ perps who have robbed the 2 of us of having a "normal" relationship (whatever that is). Hope you all find peace in yourselves!

_________________________
If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now... when? --Hillel

Top
#56539 - 12/09/03 09:59 AM Re: I love you !
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
Quote:

We lived in the same house, shared a bed,
I'm not even doing that these days..

just call me the "couch dweller".

P


Top
#56540 - 12/09/03 10:02 AM Re: I love you !
PAS Offline
Member

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 577
Loc: Canada
I'm just a bit on the verge of this lately.. after our most recent fight.. I just dont wanna fight anymore.. and dont want to be in a bad mood.. sick of it all.. I am actually the one who is choosing to sleep on the couch and actually having some peace...

Am planning on doing a lot of stuff on my own for awhile too.. space? Have it! Here!! Take it! Take lots of it!!


Top
#56541 - 12/09/03 12:27 PM Re: I love you !
Freedom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 164
Loc: US
All - Thank you for sharing. Ultimately, we have to live our own lives. I have been in many of the place you are and that is the conclusion I have come to, and started living, a little while ago. it is making a difference on many levels.

Hope you have a great and very joyous holiday season and the happiest of New Years.

PEACE.

_________________________
Life is moving on. AM I?

Top
#56542 - 12/09/03 02:22 PM Re: I love you !
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Dear All

You have been talking about space, and also if I read well of not being emotionally dependent.
I am a survivor myself (remember I have been abused since I was 8 months old !!!!). All I have learnt is dysfunctional, wrong, twisted...All I knew about men was that they were violent, selfish, dangerous...I have done a tremendous amount of personal work this year in therapy. I am actually celebrating my first year in therapy this month. In my relationship with V my first concern was to break down the patterns of dysfunctionality with myself, kind of trying to deprograme myself from all this horrible brainwash.
My therapist gave me a good tip last year, she said that avoidance was fuel for our fears. I strongly believe that so every time something scared me in my relationship with V., I made the leap of faith to overcome my fear. I have been fighting against my own personal fears of being abandoned and I have slowly managed to trust V so when he wanted to be on his own, do his stuff , I would not follow him "to his cave" and would rather concentrate in doing my own things.
This is actually how I found you,guys, the night I decided to boycott a party when I knew V would be there and I would be feeling miserable because I could not really reach him there. So I decided to protect myself, stayed home and did something to overcome my frustration and my anger.
I have a very busy life so I am not sitting at home crying and waiting for V. to appear like Prince Charming ! I am sorting out my own problems like any normal adult.
I am proud to say that yesterday I was able to write him to let him know what was in my mind and in my heart. I shared especially my concerns about him being manipulated again by his mother and most of all I told him about all the anger I have for her because of what she did to him. I told him about my sadness and frustration because I don't know how to be there properly for him and because I don't know most of the time what he really needs.
I reassured him that I was still there to love and support him regardless of the break up and the difficulties we had last summer.
I am happy I have done that because I lately avoided talking to him about how I felt. I stopped sharing because I was too afraid to open up to him. I don't know if that helped us but it felt absolutely right at the time.
I just wanted to share that with you tonight. I am holding on. I did not realize until last week end how much V meant in my life, how much he feels my present life. I have thanked him for that and I want to thank him again for his love, care, support and protection.
Much love to you all
Caro

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

Top
#56543 - 12/09/03 02:23 PM Re: I love you !
SAR Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 3310
Loc: USA
It all starts with this scream, this I LOVE YOU scream... but we are all screaming it at someone else. Not at ourselves.

My older daughter is learning how to write. Lately she has been making a lot of "I like..." "I love..." lists in school. She keeps putting herself on the list! "I love me." "I like me." Not something I would have done at 6 years old. Certainly not my boyfriend. it never would have occurred to either of us. It has been very enlightening for me. It's so easy for her to say, and still so hard for me to tell myself. And I'm supposed to be the one teaching her about life.


Top
#56544 - 12/11/03 02:03 PM Re: I love you !
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I am sorry this is so hard to you Caro. I know that I do what I can to sabotage myself, I am so afraid to do something good or right, to make progress, because that goes against what I believe of myself. What I believe of myself is that I am bad, stupid, evil, wrong. It is what my whole life, believe system is built on, those beliefs. To change that way of thinking, it is to change how I feel of everything, and so far, I can not do that.

I push away most the people who are loving and best at me most. I think it is because they are safest to do that with. It is not fair, of course, and it is maybe taking these people I love so much for granted, that they will forgive me. But I can only take it so much, the love and good feelings. Because then I start to feel better of myself, and I can not mentally deal with that. Then I realize I do not deserve these things, that these people will end up to hurt me (I know is not real or rational, but how I think at that time), and have to push away again.

I do not know if it helps you to understand maybe how he is thinking, but that is how I feel when I get like that. I hope that you can remain patient, and take care of YOURSELF, as you are important also.

leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

Top
#56545 - 12/12/03 10:33 AM Re: I love you !
Caetel Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 322
Loc: Paris, France
Thank you SO VERY MUCH Leosha for sharing your feelings with me. I am starting to discover that I really underestimated the level of shame V is dealing with. Sure he has a very bad opinion of himself but I did not realize until now how bad that was because on the surface, Vincent appears (and really is)bright, focused, intelligent and good looking....I have to stop the list is too long \:D
You have helped me a lot here Leosha but my question to you would be : what helped you along the way ? Did the presence and support of loved ones made things worse or better in the sense that you have slowly managed to abandon your old self ?
I have been thinking about my own sabotage but I think my problem was more linked to my own fear of being raped, used, controled. But I have in me the same fears of not being good enough, of being dirty...How many times I have told myself that it was normal I was or would be rejected because I am stupid, ugly, fat...endless list there again. I doubt so much that sometimes the most obvious hints a guy likes me go blank in my head ! I have done a lot of work in that area but me liking myself has more to do with me liking my intellectual capacities that me liking myself as in liking my body. Is that the same for you ?
Sometimes I feel like V and I are like two mice stuck on a wheel. Will it ever end spinning ?
Many thanks again. I really appreciate your help and I am happy I have found you all ;\)
Love
Caro

_________________________
Mitakuye oyasin ! We are all related !

Top
#56546 - 12/12/03 11:10 AM Re: I love you !
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Caro

I am still struggling with it, as my friends and 'special person' can tell you. I think it has helped me to have several unbelievable people who I simply cannot push away. I attempted to kill myself early in October. When I came home from hospital, five different friends had completely changed their schedules to take turns being home with me, so that I would not at all be alone for over 3 weeks. These are the amazing people who somehow understand me and do not allow me to push them away.

Only thing I can tell you is that it takes time. I know that is the last thing anyone wishes to hear, but honest, that is all I can think of. Time and consistency, to see that you do not leave. Each time I try to push Susanna or another friend away and they do NOT leave me, I get some stronger and learn to feel a little better of it. It is total unfair that I test them in this way, these are incredible people who should not have to prove themselves to me; and yet, they all do, without question.

I hope this helps. I wish you both good luck.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.