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#56323 - 12/31/06 10:08 PM Re: Something curious to me
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
it just goes on and on !nobby is it fair to assume that everyone has done some terrible evil thing to someone else? i do not accept that i have wronged others knowingly or unknowingly.how can you compare anything i may have done to the devestation that abuse causes? yes i would consent to being judged by the standards i use to judge perps ,nothing ,NOTHING i have ever done in my life could put me on a level with those who abuse.my standards for them are not so unattainable ,they are simply that you DO NOT FUCK LITTLE CHILDREN!OR BEAT THEM OR DESTROY THEIR LIVESis that such a high standard?is it too high ? when they chose ,yes CHOSE to abuse the so called golden rule no longer applies. talk to the fucking perps about do unto others ,i guess if it applies to me it should apply to them right? so maybe the golden rule says it fine for what the perps did to be done to them ? or does the rule only apply when it suits your needs? also i mean no disrespect to anyone but i am sick of hearing that god will judge them if and when their reign of terror finally ends. its like saying oh well let them go on abusing cause i know someday god will punish them ,no thats not good enough,thats a fucking cop out. oh well maybe god will punish them no way not good enough. i didnt choose to abuse ,its a choice ,just like forgiving ,by making their choice the perps decided that they did nothing wrong ,what the fuck makes you think they want our forgivness? normal rules do not allpy to these animals.do you think they sit and wring their hands thinking god is gonna punish them ? i know we will never agree on this but you guys are living in a world that dont exist and you of all people should understand this!you can explain that god cant help or stop abuse cause we have free will ,but turn right around and say yes god will punish them ? so in your opinion god does nothing to help but oh boy is he gonna make them pay !which way is it?god does nothing or god will punish them ? i dont think it can work both ways ,either god does nothing ,which i believe,or god can do something just not till its too late. also why do you feel perps do deserve forgivness?tell me please and not about how at sometime they were innocent children ,do you know that? i know i'll get about a hundred lines or quotes from the bible about god punishing them ,but how about something that at least makes sense? you base everything on faith ,well i have no faith in anything except the fact that perps are evil and if they are not punished right here and now they will never be punished at all ,they are guilty of murder and deserve to be punished accordingly.

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its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#56324 - 12/31/06 10:45 PM Re: Something curious to me
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam. I could have chosen to abuse but didnt.
Why? I am an abused boy of past, so it goes without saying that I will abuse because of my past.

If you look on the drug abuse problems, they must be kids who were abused or brought up with no future.

They act out to get money for drugs etc., finish their lives.
If we did go on to abuse, we would not walk the streets thru fear.

Nobby is only trying to say how all of us should treat each other in the world, the way it should be, and no other, and to respect others for who they are and not judge others on how you perceive them in this world.

None of us should have to fight, but we did, and no other will ever have a chance to do it again.

Nobody has a right to hurt k,

ste

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Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#56325 - 12/31/06 11:31 PM Re: Something curious to me
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i agree 200%,and i try to live that way ,i really do treat people the way id like to be treated im not a saint ,but i can say i never intentionaly hurt anybody or planned to then did it . why should that rule apply to abusers? should i give them the same consideration i would give you? should i feel exactly the same compassion for them ,that i do for all those here who been hurt? what does that say about your experience? do they deserve the same respect i would show you? i wont minimize what happened to me or you by putting those who did it on the same level with us. even though we been destroyd, ripped apart and stuck back together again ,we live by rules,and yes do unto others is one of them ,do the rules of sanity apply to perps? do they have any morals at all .do they value human life as priceless, do they protect the children? no ,but suddenly we are gonna apply the golden rule to them ? the golden rule ony works if its used with a lot of other rules.somebody should explain it to the perps right before they execute them

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its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#56326 - 01/01/07 03:51 AM Re: Something curious to me
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Visha, everybody is capable of redemption. I really believe that there are certain things that people can do, that won't make the past OK, but will show that they are truly remorseful, and truly understanding of the hurt or trouble they caused, and would give everything they had to go back and not do it.

But everyone is also capable of murder. Everybody, on the face of the planet, is physically capable of ending someone else's life. Should everybody be locked up because they are all potential murderers? Of course not. They have to show, beyond a doubt, that they are at least seriously willing to kill someone, before we even think about whether they need to go to prison or not.

I feel this way about forgiveness. Everyone is capable of redemption - but, is it logical that I should forgive them all automatically? I say - of course not. They must show that they are at least willing to try to redeem themselves before they deserve to be forgiven. That is just the way I think.

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Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

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#56327 - 01/01/07 06:23 AM Re: Something curious to me
VN Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
Perhaps I should restate this.

To those who have NOT forgiven your abusers, and feel you never will: what, if there is anything, that they can do to make you feel differently of it? What kind of things could they say to you, or do and show to you, that they are meaningful of wanting to change, and then deserve to be forgived?

vn


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#56328 - 01/01/07 06:24 PM Re: Something curious to me
melliferal Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Ah. That I can't answer. As I said, I believe there is something, or a series of things, that can be done...but I don't know what they are; I suppose I wouldn't be able to tell you until I saw them done.

Caring enough to try and find me and apologize would be a really good start, I think. Granted, I live on the other side of the country, now - but he knows my real name and I'm not exactly some kind of recluse.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

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#56329 - 01/01/07 07:24 PM Re: Something curious to me
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by shadowkid:
i do not accept that i have wronged others knowingly or unknowingly.how can you compare anything i may have done to the devestation that abuse causes?
You have. We all have.

Here's an example. Say you watch a porno movie and masturbate. Then, later, you learn that the girls in the movie were being forced to work as sex slaves by a criminal organisation. How would you feel about masturbating to that movie?

To me, the act of masturbating to that movie would amount to a rape of these girls. By masturbating, I am using them for my own gratification, and I am also giving my support to the people who have enslaved and abused them.

Now if you met one of these girls later in life, would you expect her to forgive you for what you have done to her? Would you have the courage to even admit what you have done to her, by supporting the people who enslaved and abused her?

Finally, what would you do, if you met the girl, and she said to you, "Before you say anything, please know that I have forgiven you?" How would you respond?

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When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#56330 - 01/01/07 09:19 PM Re: Something curious to me
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
The example you give, Nobby, explains your premise well enough - but I don't see how it answer's Adam's question. Not everyone masturbates to porn created by slavers. It's possible, again, but that doesn't mean it's automatically true for everyone.

Everyone's done something that has hurt someone's feelings, or pushed them away emotionally, true - it happens all the time, over even small things - like picking someone last for a dodgeball team. But that doesn't put those things on par with sexual abuse.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#56331 - 01/01/07 09:33 PM Re: Something curious to me
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Nobby, a man who masturbates to a porn movie is not involved in enslavement.
If he sought that behaviour then he must be, but not if you dont know the source of the material.

If I watch a man being beheaded on a movie, like what happened to a local man here.
Then does it make me complicit in his murder?
No, of course not, and btw I did not, although thousands of others did.

If you pay or subscribe to images of abuse, then you are keeping the perps in their trade.
If you distribute it to others you are complicit in abuse.

We need to be very careful in muddy waters,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#56332 - 01/01/07 10:01 PM Re: Something curious to me
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I am not talking about dodgeball. I am talking about committing serious wrongs against others, which is why I used the example I did. Would you expect someone you had wronged in such a way to forgive you?

In my opinion, there is no absolutely no difference between being a sex offender and supporting a sex offender. The crime is in your heart. If you take satisfaction or enjoyment from the suffering of others, then you are guilty. It is as simple as that.

And yes, the waters are very muddy. It is debatable which acts are "more sinful" than others. We have established our own moral standards, but they are simply ethical opinions and they serve only as guidelines, not rules. They cannot be relied on to determine individual guilt.

For example, in some stone age tribes, cannibalism is accepted and is considered appropriate. For these same tribes, burying the bodies of the dead is considered a horrible crime. However, if you or I, as members of a society that frowns on cannibalism, join them in their cannibalistic feast, are we committing a crime? I would say yes, if, by eating another human being we are getting vicarious pleasure from violating our own society's ethical standards. However, if we were able to completely understand and accept the tribe's beliefs on cannibalism and the treatment of the dead, and we respectfully join them in their ritual, then we are not committing a crime.

By the same token, rape and violent assaults are considered crimes by our society. So if we enjoy depictions of these crimes, or, in my example of the porn movie with enslaved actors, we willingly participate in the crime by supporting its perpetrators, we are then complicit in it. And therefore we have committed a crime against the girls in the movie. To use your example ste, simply watching the beheading is not a crime. I would personally be shocked and saddened by such a video. However, if you take vicarious pleasure in the suffering of the man on the screen, then you have wronged him. And then I ask my question again, would you expect him to forgive you?

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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