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#55623 - 07/27/06 05:47 PM Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Itsback Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 112
Loc: New Mexico
You know my pastor said something that really made sense to me last night

My issue was forgiveness, I told him that I would never be able to forgive those that did this to me. And would not attend a church that forced or told someone that you have to forgive until you can become one with God.

He told me that this church would never force anyone to forgive. But without forgiveness one cannot release the pain that one holds until he forgives. That kind of made me mad but then he explained what he meant.

He said" To not forgive is ones way of holding on to that pain and one will always have issues until they are able to release the pain. (made some sense to me) He also said" You dont have to have that person be in ANY part of your life or even talk to them ever, but until you can forgive them as much as you can you will always have them as a part of your life. And will always have issues with your self.

Now I did not express this exactly but the crux is True. In order to release the pain as much as possible that forgiveness is also part of the recovery. As much as I wanted to tell himm where to put it I knew (unfortunattly) that he was correct. By holding on to the hate they are still part of my life.

Now he also said I dont have to forgive right now. But to keep myself open to the possibility and whether its 10 days or 10 years until I can take that step is up to me but one day be able to take that step and truely release them from my life.

Now my hate runs deep, but damn him for being reasonable.

Anyone else heard that?

P.S. BTW he is experienced in this matter.

_________________________
I truely believe the pain made me stronger now I want to let the healing make me softer- Never Stop-Never-Quit-Always Care

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#55624 - 07/27/06 05:53 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I haven't heard that but it makes a lot of sense and I have to say that I agree with it. There's no way in hell I'm going to do it, but I agree.

Jay


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#55625 - 07/27/06 06:05 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
there is a post on the spirituality board about forgiveness that i was saying the same thing on. a person forgives as much for yourself as anything. i like the word release a little better. you have to find a point where you let it go. it is okay to still place blame where it belongs and all of that, but at some point you have to let it all go, so you can move on. i also know you can't force it either. it has to come from deep inside, or it is just make believe. to really see the benefit, you have to feel it, not just say it.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#55626 - 07/27/06 06:15 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I've always felt like if I let it go, or forgive.. I mean if I don't have all of this hate and pain inside of me then who am I?


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#55627 - 07/27/06 06:26 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i went thru a point where i was kind of lost and empty feeling. when you walked around labeling yourself as one thing all your life, and suddenly you strip all that away, it leaves you kind of lost. i think in recovery you lose yourself for a moment or two. it is kind of like the person you thought you were wasnt real, and you have to redefine yourself. does that make sense?

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#55628 - 07/27/06 06:36 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Jeff S. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Northern WIsconsin
Please allow me to throw my two cents in on this discussion. I am a pastor, who is also an abuse survivor. Trust me, I understand the unwillingness to forgive.

Whoever said you can't be accepted by God until you have forgiven is WRONG, DEAD WRONG. We cannot forgive completely, because we are sinners.

What God wants us to do is come to a point of wanting to forgive. God knows our pain. I believe He was there when it was inflicted. He knows the hate and anger it causes. He wants us to be free from that hate and anger.

Now, that's the problem. I agree when someone said, if I let go of my pain, who am I? However, I think that recovery gives us a chance to change who we are into what we can be, free from the hurt and anger.

Also, while God forgives instantly, I believe that for humans, forgiveness is a process. At first, we don't want to forgive. I still don't want to forgive my wife's abusers. Then we get to a point where we want to want to forgive. Then wanting to forgive. And maybe, eventually, to a point where we can actually forgive our perp.

The good news is God forgives us, even when we aren't willing to forgive. So, live in His forgiveness and leave your perp's accountability with God.

Jeff


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#55629 - 07/27/06 06:38 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
Itsback,
I think you hit on some really key points. The goal of forgiveness is not a realistic one in the short term. Be open to getting to that point, but don't make it the goal. It is a Loooooong way off. The goal is to reconnect with yourself and stay connected or whole. I totally agree that the hatred and actively engaging in that negative energy sabotages the healing. Hate gives the perp power over your present day life. They've taken enough, don't give them the present.
When I first told my wife about the abuse, I told her I had forgiven my abuser since I think he, himself, was abused. After more memories came back, I realized I was not ready to forgive him. I don't hate him, but still have a long way to go to dealing with the pain he left.
Take care


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#55630 - 07/27/06 06:56 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
This all sounds great but personally, I like going around hating and NOT forgiving the abusers.


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#55631 - 07/27/06 08:54 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay and others,

I just want to add here that emotions devour energy - HUGE amounts of it. And of all the energy-suckers the two that (for me) seem to exhaust a person the most are anger and hate.

I don't begrudge any of you the right to rage and hate as much as you want. In fact, I think expressing those emotions is an essential stage we have to pass through before we can move on. But the key word here is "stage".

The man who abused me was a sadist and a treacherous sicko of the first order. If I wanted to, I know I could find a LOT of reasons to rage at and hate him to the end of my days. And I did that for awhile. But you know what? After a time I discovered it wasn't getting me any further. I was simply replaying the same old tape and rehearsing the same rage, all to no end. Sure, I felt strong and righteous for awhile, but at the end I was back in the same place.

And I was exhausted. Rage and hate were sucking up energy I needed for other things: for my own recovery, for my family and friends, and for my own creativity and growth in all sorts of ways. Everything else just got reduced to second place while I fumed and blustered.

I'm not urging forgiveness here. I haven't forgiven the predator who abused me and it isn't something I am in a hurry to put on my dance card. But I don't hate him anymore and I don't rage at him either. He means nothing to me. I figure this is the most powerful thing I can do to fight back against him - deny him any ability to divert me from being the good and decent whole person I know I can be.

Perps love attention, but mine, dead since 1994, doesn't get any more of mine. And knowing I can do THAT, my friends, is a VERY good feeling!

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#55632 - 07/27/06 09:36 PM Re: Forgiveness- The possible last step?
Itsback Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 112
Loc: New Mexico
Alot of good points here. And emotions do take alot of energy as I am drained at the momment and I am like the energizer bunny and just cant get into the groove. People always thought I was on speed but thats the natural me. Hell when I am dong coke it mellows me out.

Though I am not on the forgiveness trail by any mean it did make some sense in the fact that I still hold that person some place in my psychi. And if one can truely look at it with an open mind and think clearly that point can be seen. Some day maybe when I am sick and tired of that piece of baggage but it will be on my terms.

_________________________
I truely believe the pain made me stronger now I want to let the healing make me softer- Never Stop-Never-Quit-Always Care

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