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#55325 - 07/27/06 06:43 AM Does it ever end?
Jeff S. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Northern WIsconsin
It's been a long time since I have visited and posted on these boards. I guess I thought I had pretty much dealt with my abuse issues and had been able to move on.

Unfortunately, recent events have suggested that may not be the case. My wife, who is also an abuse survivor, recently went out of state to a psych hospital that deals specifically with ritual abuse victims and dissociative identity disorder.

The day she left, things started falling apart for me. I got panicky, had a terrible feeling of dread and doom. I couldn't sleep, had no appetite, had trouble focusing and lost enjoyment in normally pleasurable things.

Well, I recognized the signs of depression and panic disorder showing up again. So, I started looking for a counselor to help me deal with what ever was going on.

It was in my session this afternoon, that we were talking about my fear of being alone. She asked me if there were any times I remembered as a kid of being left alone, or being forced to be alone.

Then it all came flooding back. Being locked in a closet by my 6th grade male teacher. I had been emotionally abused at home and was looking for someone for love and acceptance. Well, the teacher ended up physically abusing me at school. Corporal punishment wasn't just tolerated, but encouraged.

When I told my folks he was beating me, they assumed I deserved it and I got it again at home. So I quit telling.

Then he and I ended up alone at the church basement which doubled as the school gym. He was trying to teach me how to use a punching bag. I was never tough enough, man enough, or whatever for him. I so desperately wanted his approval.

Well, when I couldn't get the rhythm of the punching bag (being a bit of a clumsy 12 year old), he started yelling at me and I ended up crying.

That sent him off into a rage and I tried to get away from him. He chased? or forced? (not really sure about that) me into the storage room where the gym mats were kept.

He locked the door and I could hear him punching that bag with a great deal of force. I was terrified. Eventually, he burst into the room, accused me of behaving like a girl. He then showed me how sissy girls get treated. He raped me.

Back to the present....I have been in therapy dealing with this issue for several years. I had infact, "finished" dealing with the issues according to my last counselor.

I guess not. When I was describing the memory, the really intense emotions came when talking about the waiting....locked in the room, waiting for him to come and let me out. I don't even have any strong emotions left about being raped. I have dealt with those issues.

I guess I am a little dazed and a little confused. I've dealt with these memories already. Talked them out, relived them, written poetry about them. I am not sure why all of a sudden these things would come back as if they hadn't been dealt with at all.

All I can say is tonight I am hurting and confused. With my wife's abuse history, I really can't depend on her to listen, support or help me process this stuff.

Does it ever end? Can there ever really be an end to the panic attacks, depression, and crap?

Tonight, it feels like I am back on the same not-so-merry go round. Rehasing old stuff.

Jeff


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#55326 - 07/27/06 11:27 AM Re: Does it ever end?
surfdude Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 95
Loc: Hawaii
Hi Jeff,

I stopped therapy about ten years ago, thinking I was done and I had things under control. A recent bout of depression and self destructive behavior has me back in therapy again.

I think we can never totally escape how we have been affected by the past and sometimes things will come up. Each time I come out of a down cycle I become a stronger, better person than before. Of course going through the down cycle sucks big time. I am trying to pull myself out of it by focusing on becoming better and stronger after this relapse.

Sunny


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#55327 - 07/27/06 12:40 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Hi Jeff

This is my own peronal opinion.

"Does it ever end?"

No I dont think so as our abuse is so ingrained into us but........


"Can there ever really be an end to the panic attacks, depression, and crap?"

Yes I am pretty sure there can be an end to all these things by way of the tools that we pick up during our recovery but foremeost we have to look after ourselves both mentally and pysically, all the negative things that we can experience tend to happen to me when I am feeling out of sorts ....... We have to keep using those tools that others have who have passed that way before hand over to us unconditionally.

No it doesnt end but it does get better as Coldplay once sang "nobody said it would be easy but in the same song they also sing "I didnt realise how hard it would be" or words to that effect.

Take it easy

kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#55328 - 07/27/06 12:44 PM Re: Does it ever end?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
hi Jeff, i'm Jeff too.

i dont think it ever completely goes away. i think we can be healthy most of the time, but any time something really major comes against us, i suspect it would tend to come back like this. the difference is that you recognize it before it gets too bad, and you can put things right again pretty quickly unlike before.

i will pray your wife gets better, and i will pray for you as well. hang in there. you'll be okay.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#55329 - 07/27/06 05:28 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Just drifting by here a moment, and read this.

Does it ever end? Hard to say. Probably, totally end, so that nothing ever triggers us, so that nothing ever panicks us or make us think of the past, probably no. Does it ever end so that those things rarely ever happen? yes, I think so.

I think it would take some super-human creature to fully 'recover' so that none of this is ever an issue to them ever again. But people do move on to living full, complete lives with very little thought or effect from the past. I am lucky, I know that I am part way there, when I compare how I am now to three years ago. I wish you great luck in your continued recovering of all this. I would stress 'patience', even though that is such a hard thing! Good luck.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#55330 - 07/27/06 06:27 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Jeff S. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Northern WIsconsin
Thanks for the support guys. I am still a little overwhelmed right now at the intensity of feelings that I was pretty sure I had dealt with already.

What isn't helping right now is that my wife isn't in a place where she can really handle hearing about how I am doing.

She's having knee surgery on both knees on Tuesday and this morning told me that she'd probably sleep the first night or two out in the recliner. Then she said, "And I don't want to hear any of your whining about being alone."

Well, I guess telling her about how panicky being alone makes me is whining. So, I won't share those feelings with her right now.

Sometimes being married to another abuse survivor is difficult. Between her stuff and my stuff, it seems that there always "stuff" going on. And often, it makes it hard to tell or listen to the other's feelings.

Jeff


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#55331 - 07/27/06 06:43 PM Re: Does it ever end?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i had to laugh, because i am married to a survivor too. nothing like two people with issues to just make life a roller coaster, huh. women dont seem to handle whining well. i hurt my hip, and my wife informed me last night that she didnt want to hear about it anymore. i really didnt think i was saying that much.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#55332 - 07/27/06 09:01 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
Jeff,

From a biological perspective, the crap never leaves us. Our developing brains wired themselves to protect our inner child/children. the brain does not recognize time. Today or 30 years ago. Left to its unconscious self, if will react in what ever survival mechanism it has perfected.

And I do mean perfected. The endure the crap you endured required a masterpiece of pprotection. You should be proud that that brain has done, and still is doing, such a great job.

I think this is why there is a 12th step in the 12 step process. That is why we all type here. By helping someone else through their moments of hell, it allows us to remain somewhat grounded in our own journey. It seems that the more that we share to others the more benefit we seem to reap.

No, it does not go away...but it does not have to rule our lives.

Have a great day!!!

Danny


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#55333 - 07/27/06 09:19 PM Re: Does it ever end?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jeff,

I wonder if the problem here isn't so much a specific abuse issue as a feeling of vulnerability and exposure while your wife isn't available as a source of support. I know when my wife is away I don't like the idea much - she's such an amazing source of support and good old common sense, and when she's gone I feel like half my cannons are unloaded. Does that sound feasible?

On your question: I don't think it ends in the sense of reaching a point where what happened doesn't matter anymore. But would we want to get to such a point? I sure don't.

I think what we get is peace. We reach a point where the memories no longer have any power to harm us or prevent us from living full and joyful lives. That sounds pretty good to me.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#55334 - 07/27/06 10:47 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Jeff S. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Northern WIsconsin
Larry,
When I think about what you said about vulnerable, I was thinking that was the case until my session with the counselor. When we started talking about being alone and different feelings, she asked me if I had ever been forced to be alone.

While recalling the abuse incident, there was a tremendous amount of VERY intense emotions, obviously emotions that had not been dealt with yet. I am working on them now.

Jeff


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#55335 - 07/28/06 03:36 AM Re: Does it ever end?
TJ jeff Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3368
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Hi Jeff,

from another Jeff in Northern Wisconsin - small world is'nt it...

Does it ever end? - maybe not - but it will get easier to handle...

I am glad that you found this place - it can be a very good support network - keep comming here and talking - there are a lot of great guys here that can help lots - they've sure helped me

I spent most of my young life alone - that vulnerable/scared/lonely feeling is still something that I struggle with a lot

Take good care of yourself,

TJ jeff

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#55336 - 07/28/06 04:09 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Hi Jeff and Jeff this is Tom in western Wisconsin on the Mississippi River.

Jeff S It dose get better but don't think it ever goes away totally.

To Quote Leosha

Quote:
I would stress 'patience', even though that is such a hard thing!
This is the hardest thing for me to do. I have no PATIENCE what so ever.
Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#55337 - 07/28/06 05:29 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Jeff S. Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 46
Loc: Northern WIsconsin
Tom,

When it comes to everyone else, I can be the most patient person in the world. However, I have absolutely no patience for ME. I struggle with this because I also have almost NO TOLERANCE for mistakes when they are my mistakes. Everyone else can make mistakes, not me.

I know that comes from being the not only the family scapegoat, always being at fault for everything. Heck one time, while she was grounded, my older sister went into my room, rummaged through my dresser until she found the key to my bike, took it and went to visit a friend. I was at baseball practice. She had an accident on the bike and ended up with stitches in her head. My mother told me that it was my fault. If I hadn't left the keys where she could find them, she wouldn't have gotten hurt.

Now as an adult, I see the absurdity in her comments. My sister went through my belongings without permission, stole my bike, and it's my fault?

But you know, when it's always your fault, you work really really hard at never being at fault anymore. Maybe if I am perfect, I won't get blamed.

But that takes so much energy. I am trying hard to stop the perfectionism. I am getting better at it.

Jeff


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#55338 - 09/14/06 11:33 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
I don't really know how to begin this except to say that I've missed the warmth of this camp fire and the friendship found here. I have read here, periodically, wanting often to comment, but pulling back into my self imposed exile where I have taken shelter. But this question about wondering if, “it,” is ever over, caught my attention. I don’t have anything profound to say, some have already said it by suggesting that discovering some peace in one’s life, where there may have been none at all, is gift enough. For some others of us, all we can expect is a life ring to cling to.
Some of us find religion; some of us leave it behind. Others of us develop a hobby while some of us find true art in our lives. But for most of us, I would think that it would be peace, peace from the raging demons, peace from the nagging fear, peace to know that we’re discovering the kid who never had a chance.
Am I on my way? Is it, “over,” for me? I’ve still got some things to work out, but ya, peace has found its way into parts of my life.
I haven’t forgotten you guys…I’ve been your silent encourager all along. It’s good to feel the warmth of your campfire, the warmth of your friendship.

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#55339 - 09/15/06 03:15 AM Re: Does it ever end?
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
I still have problems 30 years later . We have good days and bad days . But I dont think that we ever get over SA.

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#55340 - 09/15/06 07:42 AM Re: Does it ever end?
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
David,

I just gotta comment here that it's so good to see your screen name beside a post here. Thanks for being that silent encourager and friend, and welcome back regardless if it's just in passing or whether you're planning on making it a "trend".

End? Probably not entirely, but I think we learn to face it differently than the broken way we learned as children. It no longer has to devastate us. Do I want it to end? No, I simply want to get to the place where I can use what's happened to me and what I've learned as a tool to help others who are traveling the road behind me.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#55341 - 09/16/06 10:35 AM Re: Does it ever end?
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I responded to this once. I am here so infrequently these days, it is strange to me that I respond it before, and it is here again.

I am thinking, it depends on how 'end' is defined. 'End' to the point of us feeling and behaving like none of this ever happened, I would say no. That is impossible, to erase memories of anything as this.

'End' as defined as no longer having such power of us, yes, I do belive that is possible, and I think some people here are proof of it, just as are some people near proof of it. It takes time, it takes work, and takes effort. It is up to each of us to decide we are worth all that. I think you are. I hope you do also.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#55342 - 09/16/06 02:48 PM Re: Does it ever end?
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11086
Loc: Denver, CO
Jeff,

sometimes I really wonder if it ends. Just when I think I've covered the mother issues, another one comes up. Some issues and emotions have been processed others have not. I'm guessing there are certain aspects that get done, while others just kinda wait their turn. I know healing happens, and nothing could feel better than knowing something is finally behind me, us, whoever. Some days not everything is as behind as I believe.

Side note: David, it's good to see you on. Thanks for talking to us!

FT

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#55343 - 09/21/06 01:06 AM Re: Does it ever end?
GregoryP Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 6
Loc: Va.
Jeff,
This might be a littl late but I just joined the forum and read your post. First off I am sorry that you are going through this. The abuse that happened to us is a part of us. It will never go away. Healing is a life long journey. It will always be in the back of our mind.

peace,
Gregory


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#55344 - 09/22/06 04:19 PM Re: Does it ever end?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jeff,

Since posting on this earlier in your thread, I have been back to the States and the topic came up in talking with my father. He asked me, "Do you think you will ever get past this?"

I told him yes and no. Yes in the sense that I will regain an ability to live my life in peace without it being hijacked and derailed by abuse memories. But no in the sense of forgetting and erasing it from my mind. But I don't even want that anymore. I know memories will come back from time to time, and when they do it will be sad.

We got to talking about it and he talked about his memories of World War II in the Pacific. He went through a similar process. At first he had a terrible time adjusting to life back home and just wanted to forget. But he eventually found peace, and though he still feels sad when memories come up, these recollections don't prevent him from living a happy and fulfilling life.

I think that's somehow what my recovery will be like. Or put it this way: if it is I will be content.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#55345 - 09/22/06 04:42 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I don't like the idea that even if you get to a place in your life where you can deal with it, it never just goes away. I don't want to be 50 something (if I live that long) and still be the guy who was abused. I know there's no way to get out of that. I just don't like it.


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#55346 - 09/22/06 06:39 PM Re: Does it ever end?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

That's because right now you are still taking responsibility for some of the things that happened. So part of the shame also belongs to you.

Eventually you will get past that one as well. It's a matter of first believing that NONE of the abuse was your fault, then learning to BELIEVE what you know, and then learning to TRUST these solid beliefs is tools you can use to rebuild your life.

You make a significant statement here:

Quote:
I don't want to be 50 something (if I live that long) and still be the guy who was abused.
This goes back to that thread where I was arguing against allowing abuse to define us. Your statement shows how damaging this can be. You are JAYSEN, who has a cool bike, an ability with tools and machines, a band, a talent for music, and lots of other things. Does the fact that you were abused cancel all that out? Only if you allow it to. And why should you do that?

At 50 you will be Jaysen, not Abused Jaysen. IF that is what you insist on and work for.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#55347 - 09/22/06 07:37 PM Re: Does it ever end?
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Well shit Larry you don't have to yell at me! \:\)

No I won't allow all that to cancel out who I am or who I want to be. I'm not abused Jay, I'm just jay. As far as taking responsibility for some of the things that happened, you're right, there's one or two things left that I need to get past.


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