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#52808 - 03/12/03 07:41 PM I need your prayers and support
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Friends,

This statement appeared in this months church news letter.
Quote:

Your Personell Department has been working on a policy that deals with sexual misconduct and harassment. This policy will also involve reporting any child abuse. We are working with materials written by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, The State of Wyoming, our Book of Order, our insurance company, Church Mutual Insurance and a policy from a church in Chicago. We hope to have the policy to our session in March. Once the session approves the policy, it will be distributed to all church officers, staffand volunteers. We hope and pray that it will never have to be implemented.
This meeting is Monday night. I have contacted my attroney and he knows that I am concerned. All contact that I have with the church is to be through my attorney. I have several concerns about this meeting
  • That the current minister has from the start wanted my case handled by church law.
  • That this new policy will make it imposible for me to continue with the pursuit of my perp.
  • That the policy will only include Child sexual assault and not all forms of Clergy abuse
  • Having been on this board ( Session) and knowing what a rummor mill it is within the church, That my name will be "drug through the mud" at the meeting
  • I already feel that my confidentiality has been comprimised in this situation. If this matter goes before session I feel that my rights will have been violated.


I have told my attorney that If this matter goes before the session on Monday night that I want us both to be at the meeting. He has said that he will try to have this item tabled until after the church as setteled my dispute with them. I just don't see that unless I am there or my representative is there how I can have my rights protected.

Also, I can see one of the tactics that the church is trying already. They are trying to run up my leagal bills. We are asking for attorney fees in the settlement .... but I also see that a long way down the road.

Thanks guys,

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#52809 - 03/12/03 07:47 PM Re: I need your prayers and support
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
John,

I want to let you know I will be praying for you. GLAGB.

Sincerely,
Jess.


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#52810 - 03/12/03 08:35 PM Re: I need your prayers and support
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Courage John, at least there is some movement and it seems to be in the right direction.

I think we do need to remind people that rape is rape no matter the age of the person raped. I suspect that most females who are rap-ed are in fact older that 18.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#52811 - 03/12/03 10:13 PM Re: I need your prayers and support
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
John,

Brother, you know how much this policy & its utter hypocrisy PO's me, and how much I'm hurting for you. You continue to be in my thots & prayers.

Whether these hypocrites want to listen to it or follow it or not--and apparently they don't!--the Bible is The "Church Law!"

The Bible is clear that those under church law are
to obey civil law & civil authorities unless to do so would be to disobey God. In no conceivable scenario would trying to hide behind church law to avoid civil law, and the consequences of clergy sexual abuse, have anything to do with obedience to God. Quite the opposite! I don't know what "god," what false idol, they're worshiping, and I don't want to know!

John, if your name is in any way dragged thru the mud or your confidentiality compromised, you & your lawyer should sue for every brick that church is built of and every dollar those sorry hypocrites have pocketed in the name of God (but damn sure not His blessing)!

Hopefully you & your lawyer can be at this Session! I would think that in itself would shut them up, but then these people are obviously a few bricks short of a wall! No way should they have this meeting until things are settled where you are concerned.

May God's justice be measured out fully to you according to the injustices done to you, and to them according to their evil deeds!

My friend, you know my PM. \:\)

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#52812 - 03/13/03 12:40 AM Re: I need your prayers and support
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Friends,

I think I have pissed my attorney off. I e-mailed him this afternoon and told him that I really feel we should be at the session meeting on Monday night. He wrote me back and told me that would not be a good idea.

He also wants me to come into his office tomorrow and we will "discuss" things.

The church's attorney is telling "us" (my atttorney and me) what they want. I think it is time that we start telling the church how things are going to be run.

Between T's and attorneys I am fed up.

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#52813 - 03/13/03 01:00 AM Re: I need your prayers and support
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
((CHEY)))))) my bro, my friend...

I admire your courage and strength. I pray for healing for us all.

orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#52814 - 03/13/03 03:29 AM Re: I need your prayers and support
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Dear John,

Don't worry about your attorney's feelings. They don't matter. Besides, attorneys are trained to have thick skins, and not to get pissed off with their clients. Otherwise, sooner or later they won't have any clients.

You are the client and you hired him. You are the Boss and he works for you. He is bound by a Code of Professional Responsibility. He owes you an ethical and fiduciary duty. This is your case. His job is to represent your best interests in the matter, and ultimately what you want to happen is what is most important.

On the otherhand, your lawyer is the one with the legal expertise and the legal stragegies he decides to use should not be dismissed by the client too readily. Go to your meeting with him, and "discuss" the matter. He will guide you and give you his legal advice. Hopefully, it is good legal advice. Listen to it and weigh it carefully before you decide. Remember, the ultimate decision is up to you. Hopefully, he will be able to convince you of the reasonableness of his actions in your case.

If you and your attorney cannot see eye to eye on these issues, he may need to request the Court's permission to withdraw from your case due to material differences of opinion. Only you can decide whether it is worth retaining your present lawyer or seeking a new one. At this stage in the case, it may be better to keep the lawyer you have, if you do indeed trust him to represent your best interests, here.

I sympathize with you, my brother. This is such a hard time for you. You have been wronged, and you deserve legal redress. The American legal system is painfully slow, and interruptions and continuances can happen quite frequently with very little notice, making a case drag on forever. But if you feel your case is just then it deserves to be heard to the fullest extent possible.

The monetary compensation for your pain and suffering, inconvenience and interruption of your life's forward progression is never adequate compared to the damages. But if you are seeking justice and vindication for the wrongs you've suffered, perhaps this will be enough. It's never easy. Sometimes it is worth it.

Although the above sounds a bit negative, I meant it to be encouraging. Sometimes, I don't write the words the way I feel them. just know I am with you, John. I believe in you. Your attorney does too or he would have been long gone. he knew from the start that this kind of case is very difficult. Obviously, he believes in the merits of your case, and feels strongly that the church has to answer for its wrongs toward you.

Hang in there, John!

Sincerely, Jess.


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#52815 - 03/13/03 08:26 AM Re: I need your prayers and support
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
John: Jess is dead on in what he says. Your

lawyer has been trained to look at things in the

cold light of reality and without emotion. That is their job.

Then ther is your side of the equation that is, to say the least, almost 100% emotion. Stuff is boiling and has been boiling since the beginning.

Your lawyer, I am sure, is well aware of your thoughts on this but I do think that maybe you defer to him from a legal and process point of view. Easy to say and tuff to do.

Hang in their John and let us know how the meeting went.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#52816 - 03/13/03 07:15 PM Re: I need your prayers and support
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Friends,

I met with my attorney today and appologised to him about taking my frustration with the church out on him. He told me it was O K and that he understood.

While I was there my attorney ( Tim ) sat down and we wrote the following letter to the church's attorney. Tim sent it while I was there.


Quote:
Tom:( Church's attorney)

I left you a voice-mail today asking about the status of John's case, but also wanted to address a couple other issues with you.

I understand that the Presbyterian Church is holding its monthly session next Monday. I also understand that the Session will be working on a "sexual misconduct" policy. Obviously, this issue is of great concern to my client. On his behalf, I would like to request a copy of the proposed policy (the March 2003 "News from the Pews" references a policy that the
Personnel Department has been working on). I also would like to see a copy of the docket that I understand is provided to each Session member before the meeting for the upcoming Session

All of this gives me and my client some concern that his matter may be the catalyst for the church's consideration of a sexual misconduct policy. Though both John and I think such a policy is highly necessary and it is commendable that the church is considering the matter, we also believe that he should be allowed to provide input on the proposed policy, whether at the
Session or otherwise. I think the perspective of a victim is highly necessary and whatever policy that is adopted needs to reflect victim's needs. Without John's input, we have concerns that the policy will be deficient, inadequate, and perhaps tailored more to the church's needs than to victims' needs. I also note that in my November 27, 2002 letter to Rev. Garrard that we specifically brought up policy issues that John would like to see addressed. At this point we obviously don't know whether the policy will reflect John's stated concerns, but we think it should. I can also state that how the church handles this policy issue and John's concerns is
highly important and related to how John might ultimately resolve his matter with the church.

In addition, since I sent (the current minister) the letter back in November, John reports to me that members of the church have started to treat him differently. This, coupled with the Session's imminent consideration of a sexual misconduct policy, makes me concerned that John's confidentiality has been breached. Can you tell me to whom John's letter and situation was revealed to? Is some committee considering it? Do you know who knows about John's matter? Has it been or will it be considered at prior Sessions or this Session, whether in Executive Committee or otherwise?

Finally, as I said in my voicemail message, I'd greatly appreciate hearing from you about the status of the church's response to John's matter. Please let me know as soon as you can.


Thanks, Tim
What I am wondering is, if this were you, did we get the message out to the church. The church may have a policy .... but I don't feel that it is any good without the victims point of view.

Thanks for all of your support brothers,

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#52817 - 03/13/03 10:53 PM Re: I need your prayers and support
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Chey I am glad that you are ok with your lawyer and the letter looks great. Keep us informed ok. You are gonna win bro.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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