Newest Members
Won'tGiveUp, sillyputty, Pytbull, manipulated, donmarks
12383 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Beluga (64), Isreal101 (65), Phil Sober (41), phil1973 (41), Teddy Bear (63)
Who's Online
4 registered (pattom, dan_in_newengland, 2 invisible), 31 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12383 Members
74 Forums
63645 Topics
444493 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#52151 - 07/07/03 09:24 AM The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
THE TWELVE STEPS OF INSANITY
(if you don't know the Twelve Steps of Incest Survivors Anonymous, see at bottom of post)

1. We admitted we were powerless over nothing - that we could manage our lives perfectly and those of anyone else who would allow me.

2. Came to believe there was no power greater than ourselves, and the rest of the world was insane.

3. Made a decision to have our loved ones and friends turn their wills and lives over to our care even though they couldn't understand us at all.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of everyone we knew.

5. Admitted to the whole world at large the exact nature of everyone else's wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to make others straighten up and do right.

7. Demanded others to either "shape up or ship out."

8. Made a list of all persons who had harmed us and became willing to go to any length to get even with them all.

9. Got direct revenge on such people wherever possible except when to do so would cost us our own lives or, at the very least, a jail sentence.

10. Continued to take the inventory of others, and when they were wrong, promptly and repeatedly told them about it.

11. Sought through bitching and nagging to improve our relations with others as we couldn't understand them at all, asking only that they knuckle under and do things our way.

12. Having had a complete physical, emotional, spiritual breakdown as the result of these steps, we tried to blame it on others and to get sympathy and pity in all our affairs.


from http://www.mhsanctuary.com/Healing/aa.htm


Twelve Steps of Incest Survivors Anonymous

The I.S.A Twelve Steps

1. We admitted we were powerless over incest -- that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to incest survivors, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#52152 - 07/07/03 02:31 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Hey I have 13 out of the 12. lol

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


Top
#52153 - 07/07/03 02:59 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

James you're cool!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#52154 - 07/07/03 06:21 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Vic those 12 steps are steps I have not seen before. I will print them and take them to my AA group. Best laugh I have had in a long time. THANKS.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

Top
#52155 - 07/07/03 06:40 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Bob,

Glad you like them. I like them too. I'm trying to practice them faithfully... ;\)

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#52156 - 04/18/04 03:08 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
I really liked this the first time around. I thought maybe the newer guys that haven't poked back would like to see this.

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

Top
#52157 - 04/18/04 03:11 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
I must admit, I came into this thread thinking it possible that Victor had returned. \:\( I did not get to know him so well when he was here, but he was always very nice to me.

Thank you Bill, for returning this post where newer people can see it. Somehow I did not see it before.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

Top
#52158 - 04/18/04 06:34 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
I hate to question a incest survivor group but
these steps relate to incest how??

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

What now they want us to admit we were resposible in some way?

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

Defects of character? Is being a incest victim a defect of character?

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

And shortcomings have to do with incest how??

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

admitted the exact nature of our wrongs, defects in character, shortcomings and making amends to the people we harmed is anyone seeing a pattern here?

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Making amends? The pattern continues

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

Admit wrong?

Is it just me, or does this kinda seem like they are blaming the victim? Blame is ok for Achoholics (which is what this was adapted from) but does it really apply to sexual abuse VICTIMS. Ok, if you want to make this a 12 step program for perps, then you'd have a good start but not for victims.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


Top
#52159 - 04/18/04 08:01 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
LupinIII Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 156
The steps are not about the abuser but about us. All of the steps are built from step 1: our lives have become unmanageable. We engage in crazy and often self-destructive behavior. So when we admit our wrongs we are talking about our own crazy behavior. Once again recovery is about finding serenity in our lives and our lives alone.


Top
#52160 - 12/27/05 12:30 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Brothers,

I was looking for something else entirely, and lo and behold I found this in archive. It interested me and I thought it might be useful to let this resurface for discussion.

I will withhold my own views for the moment, except to say that I see a lot of merit in what jtt5254 has to say. I should also say I don't understand 12-step programs very well.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#52161 - 12/27/05 12:40 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i agree with jtt ,sounds like the survivor is taking the blame .by the way i love switchfoot ,dare you to move ,dare you to move ,dare you to lift yourself up off the floor . switchfoot

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#52162 - 12/27/05 12:43 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
I'm with jtt & Larry on this one. The Twelve Steps were one of the things I considered in rejecting SIA meetings in favor of a less 'programmatic' group therapy setting. (OK, not the main thing, but one of the things -- the others were that I didn't want to go into a mixed-gender group, and that as far as I know SIA meetings are run without benefit of professional therapists). I just don't get what I'm supposed to be asking my 'higher power' to do in those steps if my issue is incest (and it is).

On the other hand, I *totally* laughed myself silly over the original post at the top of the thread. Nicely composed.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

Top
#52163 - 12/27/05 01:26 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
I NEEDED A GOOD LAUGH . THANK YOU

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

Top
#52164 - 12/27/05 06:34 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
My difficulty here is that I thought 12-Step programs were originally developed for problems with alcohol - cases of physical addiction in which the victim's life is controlled by his need for drink.

As jtt5254 shows, the transition from that to the case of sexual abuse isn't exactly a straight-forward one. Alcohol is a choice that one makes, and I know because I have been there. I had no power or role, on the other hand, in the decisions that resulted in my abuse as a child.

I'm afraid that for me the absolute innocence of a child is carved in stone; there's not a snowball's chance in hell of me ever returning to any thought that what happened to me was somehow my own doing and now requires that I make some kind of "moral inventory".

But again, maybe I am missing the point?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#52165 - 12/27/05 12:04 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Wuamei was, maybe still is, a preacher of some kind, I can't remember what faith anymore, that's probably why there's a religious element to it.

He also battled with alcohol and other problems.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#52166 - 12/27/05 01:01 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I am glad you brought this topic out of archive.
This guy wrote some powerful stuff, and it makes me wonder where he went,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#52167 - 12/27/05 02:26 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
It looks like he left well before I arrived here, and he certainly seems to have been very active. It makes you wonder when someone disappears like that.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#52168 - 12/27/05 05:10 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 470
Loc: UK
I did attend an SIA group, it is separate from I.S.A, and it can be a very good resource for survivors. I wasn’t at all into the Higher Power etc but it was a good place to meet other survivors for mutual support. The SIA steps are better, but there is no belief in either organisation that a child is in any way to blame. The moral inventory is about being honest with ourselves in our recovery as I understand it.


1. We admitted we were powerless over the abuse, the effects of the abuse and that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a loving Higher Power, greater than ourselves, could restore hope, healing and sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a loving Higher Power, as we understood Her/Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, the abuse, and its effects on our lives. We have no more secrets.

5. Admitted to a loving Higher Power, to ourselves, and to another human being our strengths and weaknesses.

6. Were entirely ready to have a loving Higher Power help us remove all the debilitating consequences of the abuse and became willing to treat ourselves with respect, compassion and acceptance.

7. Humbly and honestly asked a loving Higher Power to remove the unhealthy and self-defeating consequences stemming from the abuse.

8. Made a list of all the people we may have harmed (of our own free will), especially ourselves and our inner child(ren), and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made amends to such persons wherever possible, except when to do so would result in physical, mental, emotional or spiritual harm to ourselves or others.

10. Continued to take responsibility for our own recovery and when we found ourselves behaving in patterns still dictated by the abuse, promptly admitted it. When we succeeded, we promptly enjoy it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with a loving Higher Power as we understood Her/Him, asking only for knowledge of Her/His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other survivors and to practice these principles in all our endeavors.


Top
#52169 - 12/28/05 07:13 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Victor was one of the guys here every day for a long time. Victor got into a big fire fight with other here back in 2003 and left very agree.

I had hoped that he had come back when I saw his post. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

Top
#52170 - 12/28/05 09:32 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rustam,

Thanks for the clarifications, but I still have trouble with this. To me it looks too much like an effort to simply repot the 12-Step approach to alcoholism as an approach to abuse issues. I don't see anything, for example, about the crucial importance of the survivor knowing that the abuse was in no way his fault. Instead, there is repeated implicit stress on something that comes very close to being guilt on the survivor's part.

I am not spoiling for a quarrel here, I just really don't see - sorry for being blunt - how anyone would fall for this. But as I have said already, perhaps I just don't understand what is being said here.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#52171 - 12/29/05 12:14 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
PiePro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 15
Loc: Montreal
The 12 steps program saved my life. I would be dead without it.

I went to GA meetings. I could not stop gambling. It was not a choice for me to gamble, it was an obsession. I was surprised to see how many male survivors attended these meetings. In fact I know over 10 male members that are incest survivors.( I did not know one before going there.) I applied the 12 steps and did a ton of meetings.

The biggest surprise that I got from attending these meeting was that it greatly help me live my life as an incest survivor.

A higher power is different for everyone. I am an atheist, and my higher power is life.

The 12 steps are there to help me learn to trust people and myself and life. The term spirituality is used, as I see it, in this way; To recognize everything that is good in other people and myself. Believe me, I did not trust anyone when I first started meetings.

I was powerless over the incest, I was a child.
It took 30 years to stop feeling guilty about the incest.

The exact nature of my wrong is the pain and suferring I mostly caused to myself and others, as an adult survivor with post traumatic stress disorder.

It is really easy for me to stay immature and sarcastic about life and people. I would rather take a chance and try something proven like the 12 steps and move on.

I am 44 year old, and for the first time in my life I feel good. It is because of the 12 step program.

I'm glad I took a chance and overlooked my fears and ego.


Top
#52172 - 12/29/05 12:28 AM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
PiePro,

Thanks for your post; that helps a lot. If anyone else has positive experiences or insights let's have them. I really am curious about this.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#52173 - 12/29/05 07:10 PM Re: The Twelve Steps of Insanity
PiePro Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 15
Loc: Montreal
The most important thing I learn with the 12 step program is to live today, not in the horror of the past or in the insecurities of the future.

By doing this, I was faced with taking responsabilities over my actions, today.

I learned that by acting out the abuse through mostly auto-destruction behavior ( gambling, drugs, sex, need to perform without taking pleasure, etc...) I was reproducing the abuse on myself. Uncousciously, of course, since I suffered from PTSD.

I was much more vulnerable then. Today, I try to be more responsable, and believe me it is not easy, but I do get periods of great serenity and calmness. Unfortunately, I often go back to a more comfortable place, a place were I do not belong-were I do not respect myself, i.e. over eating ...

12 step meetings are full of people acting out. In many cases they are not even conscious of their own victimization. I spoke to a lady that was gang raped when she was 15 year old. It took everything she had to tell me. She could not make the link between the rape and her problems in life as an adult.

Today, I know that if I gamble, it will be an act of violence on my part. I don't want to do this anymore since I am starting to love who I am.

I refuse to continue the abuse perpetrated on me when I was a child. - Today


Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.