Jim, Whyme and all you guys, let me elaborate a little. When you are making friendships,it is like stepping into a garden on a step stone path. First you step on one stone then a second, then a third, etc. If the first stone is named "we share CSA" and that's all you have in common, you have no second stone. If your first step is on "we share CSA", the second step "we share baseball interests", the third "we share vocational interests", then you have a path to share into the garden. If you only share the first step...you aren't gonna go far together. Does that make sense?

Sometimes coming back to a "relationship" finds both persons in different places. One person may feel safe at one point with disclosure while at another point may not feel as secure. Many things may interfere with comings and goings in relationships.

Not that I have all the answers. I don't want anyone to mistake that. My sharing advice comes from my working through issues over a long time.
We all have things that worked for us and I really hope we continue to share! Thanks!!

Hope this helped!!!

Howard

I like the insights you guys are offering.

I have been trying to analyze myself and figure out why I have such trouble making/keeping friends, especially male friends.

Can I be honest? I am so nervous around men. I try to hide it, but I am - even on such a safe place as this message board. Having a simple conversation with another man - in the majority of cases, is a lot of work for me. I am so stressed out, that at the end, I am exhausted. I think even when the other guy seems to want to continue a friendship, I cut myself off because it's just so much work for me.

I tend to feel myself standing outside of myself during interactions with other men, grabbing my own arm and trying desperately to find a way to high-tail it out of there. I struggle against that. I know it is low-self esteem. I have been trying to work on that. But I often find myself isolating myself and then feeling guilty and beating myself up for being so anti-social.

I honestly never think that other men feel the way I do. A huge barrier to me making friends is the fact that my sexual orientation is gay. And I cannot fake the straight thing, and when other men talk to me about girls, I feel so uncomfortable and wonder if they've figured me out or not. So much self-consciousness!

I told a good straight friend many years back that I was gay... he said he was glad I told him and that it didn't make a difference to him nor to any of our other friends... but very quickly communication between us halted and I don't have that friend any longer. Up until now, I have always blamed him for rejecting me. Today I am beginning to see the pattern in my life, and now I think perhaps I was the one who cut myself off.

I know I am blabbering, but honestly it helps to write things down, doesn't it? To risk sharing with other men. It's a start.

Thank you "uncertain", you share some beautiful thoughts. I see it as a reminder to me, to understand that I can have many fine relationships, if I just take the time to connect with the one I am talking to at the time.

Lots of str8 guys like to talk about girls--they think it is expected of them. They may well be grateful that they don't have to do that with you. I am a priest, so, too many people think that I want to talk religion. Many times, it is the only thing I DO NOT want to talk about, in fact, most ofthe time, it is not what I want to talk about.

Taking a person simply as a person, not gay or str8, not white or black or brown or Asian etc. etc., not as bright or dumb, athletic or not etc is the best way to get to know that person as a person, not as a job or an interest.

Howard's image was a great one for me. If we only have CSA to talk about, we get stuck on the first stone. None of us have only CSA to talk about. Thanks for that image Howard.

Peace to us all.

Bob

I've got hetero friendships as well and actually a couple of my close friends that are guys are some that I can really talk about all kinds of things. We do talk about our struggles, emotions, etc. Actually if all someone wants to do is talk about "stereotype male things", than I usually tend to stay away from them for the most part. That is just me and I am attracted to people who challenge me, broaden my horizons and talk about different things.

I've gotten to the point that I don't normally say I work with computers when I meet people. Because the first thing that happens is people want to ask me all kinds of questions about computers. And to be honest, after dealing all day with people and their computer/personal problems, I just want to get the heck away from it. I've got a friend who will call me up with computer problems and sometimes I have to tell him, look I've had enough of this stuff today, and call me another time.

There are people out there with substance and some of them are guys. Ya just gotta keep turning over the rocks until you find em!

Don

TheDean, thank you, your post really touched me deeply.

MrDon, thanks for the encouragement to keep turning over rocks. Is there really anything other than slugs and bugs under rocks, lol? Just kidding.

and if you are like timone or pumba in the lion king, the best delicacies for eating are "under the rocks and the logs"...

I love the Lion King movie!

*smile*

Don

In the end, none of this really matters anyway.


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