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#51538 - 07/13/01 12:34 PM Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi. I am a survivor, and I have found that many of the males survivors that I have known are gay or bi. I wonder if there have been studies of the impact of childhood sexual abuse of males on the victims' later sexuality and sexual preferences. I suspoect strongly that my confusion about my sexuality is a directo result ot the sexual and other abuse I experienced in my family. I have also read in bools for male survivors that we survivors wind up totally confused and fearful aroiund issues of sexuality and emotional intimacy, and often are confused about our sexual orientation.
Does anyone know of any such studies? Please let me know and also feel free to comment on the subject, in general.

Thanks!

Lance


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#51539 - 07/14/01 06:06 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
It certianly confused me. It fucked up my life. When Men abuse boys it directly messes everything up.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#51540 - 07/15/01 08:37 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


im a survivor too.i dont know of such studies, but i was confused about my manhood and i believe our sexual preference was chosen before we even entered this world. you as i was are confused because some asshole chose to disregard the affects of his actions. i am a healthy heterosexual male and my abuser cannot and did not change my sexual preference.you are a survivor and your abuser cannot and did not change you.


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#51541 - 07/15/01 01:42 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
SoCalJohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 05/18/01
Posts: 510
Loc: Los Angeles, California
I dont know of any studies, however, i can say with some certainty that it definately scrambled my sexuality. kinda made/makes me question just about everything about it.

John

_________________________
I asked him about this law he spoke of, he said,,, *watch* he then asked the others to share about their lives,,, the others talked of how things were for them, how things worked in their lives,,, and as they believed, it was so.

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#51542 - 07/16/01 07:43 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Guys, I agree with what silentnomore writes,that or sexual orientation is determined b4 we are born. Being gay, which I am one of them, is by itself,very hard. But also to be an abuse survivor makes your sexual orientation even more difficult. Just look at the responses on these two pages-males survivors, and gay survivors. The public at large is now beginning to deal with sexual orientation and change is now becoming evident, AND accepted. Society at large HAS NOT DEALT WITH MALE SEXUAL ABUSE. This fact was very evident at a public forum one nice spring day, when people who are survivors of sexual abuse could speak openly in front of all the croud - about 125 people. Many woman spoke, but only one (1) male, me, spoke about male sexual abuse. I also, and all of the writers say, do not know of any publications re the abuse and sexual orientation, but THEY WILL BE MADE IN THE FUTURE, more soon, I hope because of people like NOMSV, and their attempt to bring the male sexual abuse topic more to a "front" of public opinion. bosishere


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#51543 - 07/16/01 01:48 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Please see my post on Gay Survivors post where I go into further detail, and also write about my screwup for not mentioning the fact that the open discussion was held on the Vanderbilt University campus. sorry. bosishere


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#51544 - 07/16/01 03:59 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I also posted a response in the "gay survivors" section, so sorry if I duplicate myself. (I don't think I phrased that well, it sounds like I'm trying to clone myself!)
I have read a book called "Growing up Gay in a Dysfunctional Family", but I don't know of any specific literature on sexual abuse issues and homosexuality. I stopped worrying about what "caused" my sexual preference, and am learning to live with it.


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#51545 - 07/26/01 08:54 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
A lot has happened to me over the past 39 years. I cannot change what I have done.
I do not understand everything that has happened either. My life seems to be getting back to normal, but being BiPolar is like living on a roller-coaster. Everything effects everything. It is a good thing I do not know the future, I might not like it.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#51546 - 07/26/01 08:58 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
What if you are not Gay, and are struggling?
What are straight men with gay thoughts supposed to do? It is not easy and orientation has nothing to do with recovery.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#51547 - 07/26/01 09:24 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Michael...thank you for your messages. I am sorry for your struggle and your pain.

I think that straight men with gay thoughts can only do what any survivor can do -- straight, gay, bi, whatever -- do our best to live each day and work on healing and recovering.

For me, getting in touch with my feelings and clarifying my feelings is extremely helpful. It helps clear away grief to make space for joy and whatever is underneath all of the grief. It helps me understand what I am feeling and why, and that helps me know what I need to do for myself.

Writing and jourmnaling about my feelings is a very powerful tool for me. It really gives me insights into what is going on for me and what I need to do about it.

I am not so clear that abuse necessariuly has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation, or at least one's sexual desires. My sexual feelings, perceptions, feelings, desires, etc. seem to be very much influenced by my abuse. My challenge is to figure out what of my feelings, etc. is realted to the abuse, and what is not.

I am definitely on the right track in terms of clarifying all this stuff for me. Sharing here, reading some books about male survivors and the impact of the abuse, reading daily meditation books written by and for survivors, reading and saying aloud CODA affirmations every day, journaling, allowing myself the time and space to feel, etc...have all helped me make some real progress in recent weeks...one day at a time.

LanceC


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#51548 - 07/27/01 07:42 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
I am glad Lance, sounds like you are doing good things for yourself. I am not sturggling now, but I will have a very busy schedule till December. I will be teaching another night class. It takes a lot of energy.

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#51549 - 07/29/01 12:25 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


You better believe it and extremely well put. Here Here. . .

Labels represent a significant part of the trouble. . .Your points about continuum are right on. .As someone who has great difficulty with judgement particularly negative ones (can imagine why? (sarcasm here) I have come to understand that labels are useful in that they can help people understand things. . . otherwise they are a pain in the ass.

I think gay and straight labels are hurtful. The important thing is how you feel about the person you are sexual with (and how they feel about you). Attraction is individual. . . I have found generalizing problematic.

I believe I am bisexual, and as such, capable of relationship with either a man or a woman. Where the abusive upbringing comes into play is my difficulty with intimacy and my feelings about being masculine.

Its hard to keep this perspective a lot of time because society likes labels and people are uncomfortable with ambiguity (especially me).

You points are extremely well taken. I only wish it would be as easy to understand these things emotionally as intellectually.

David


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#51550 - 07/29/01 04:20 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


MICHAEL JOSEPH: Thank you, and good luck with your increased teaching load.

URSABEAR: Wow, Excellent -- thank you for your thoughtful insights! They give me a lot to ponder. I also agree that my abuse affects every aspect of my life, not just intimacy and sexuality. It has taken me 14 years of active recovery to get to where I am today...and now sexuality/intimacy seems to be the core issue for me.

One thought I have is that wheverever I may fall on the continui you mention, I still need to make choices about with whom I will be intimate emotionally and sexually, and those choices do affect my life and the lives of those around me, including my children. If I choose to be sexual with both women and men, that has an impact. If I choose just one or the other, that, too, has an impact. The impact of one choice or another is different, and some scare me much more than others because of societal norms, what I hope for my children, etc.

Whether I choose to be emotionally intimate with both or one or the other seems to be a different choice for me with different consequences. I can be emotionally close to someone without having sex with that person. I can love that person as a vey dear friend, spend lots of time with her/him, but not as a lover. It doesn't matter so much whether the person is a man or a woman.

For me, choosing to have sex takes things to a different level of intimacy, or least it does in a healthy, non-acting out relationship. And having sex with men or with women has different implications for my life and the lives of my children.

The "love" continuum is an interesting one. I feel very drawn to a man right now in a way that I have never felt before twoard anyone, man or woman. So far, he is everything I have thought about wanting and needing in a relationship, and I really feel connected with him in a very deep way. We hav also had sex, but my interest i much more in the other aspects of the relationship, though I like the sex , too. At this point, the sexual part of the realtionship brings up fear and shame, mainly around societal norms and my religious sensitivities, and leaves me feeling unsure about what I want to do about sex in our relationship.

So, it seems that I am trying to make decisions about three basic questions: (1) With whom do I feel comfortable and desire emotional intimacy? (2) With whom do I feel comfortable and desire sexual intimacy? (3) With whom do I want to pursue both emotional and sexual intimacy in the context of a life-long loving partnership, i.e., Do I want to spend the rest of my life and love with a man or a woman?

Really tough questions for me,in case you haven't already figured that out! hehehe \:\)

Thanks again for your feedback. It is very helpful!

LanceC


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#51551 - 07/29/01 04:27 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


ARTTISTIC-DAVID: Wow...between your and Ursabear's feedback, I have enough to mull over for weeks and weeks! Thank you so much.

It is now quite clear to me that the abuse comes into play for me with my ability to engage in emotional intimacy and with whom I desire sex and can have sex. I HATE THIS, but it is my reality, and is now THE issue challenging me.

However, with great support and feedback from people like you and the others here, I feel confident that I will resolve these issues inways that are healing and healthy for me and my family.

Thanks again.

LanceC


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#51552 - 07/30/01 05:45 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
it sure as hell has f----- up my sexuality....since i've never been able to have sex with anybody....i just do not know what i want and am so afraid of all the memories flooding back if i ever have sex with anybody....i'm so afraid i'd freak out and really hurt the person i was with....ai guess replaying the scene from looking for mr. goodbar.....i just wish my uncle would have killed me instead.....or that i would have the courage to do it myself.....michael


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#51553 - 08/03/01 10:18 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
thunderbolt Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 119
Loc: mi
ill have to check in with,world of hell, my out look is that any thing within eyes sight of me is sexual, every thing means sex, thats twisted, i like to thing life is differnt, but that means i have to live to have a life, souless corpes only fill spaces,and back to the pity party i go,,,,


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#51554 - 08/12/01 07:35 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi, MichaelB and Thunderbolt. I just returned from a 10-day vacation and saw your messages. It seems we have much in common.

Thanks for responding and please keep coming back to the site!

LanceC


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#51555 - 08/19/01 02:08 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks, Blackleaves, for the information. I am still trying to figure out what O iwant to do with my sexuality. I am clearly attracted to guys more than to women, and in fact, I have fallen in love with a guy. However, my feelings about and reactions toward women or thinking about having sex with women seem too intense to not be realted to my abuse. I experience panic and revulsion now when I consider sex with women./ During my 11-year marriage, I was unable to initiate sex with my wife, but when we DID have sex, it was really great. Since separating form my wife 7 years ago, however, I have been unable to get close to a woman or even consider sex with a woman. Idatged two women for a while, one for about 1 1/2 years, and I oculd barely bring my self to touch her or hug her or kiss her.

I also know that part of my desire for a man to cuddle and hold me and hug me stems from the fact that when my older brother had sex with me when I was about 8 (he was about 15), it was the first physical touch I had exeprienced in my family. My father did not hug me and yelled and hit me, and my mother beat me and rarely hugged me. Since sex with my brother, I have wished I could have more.

I am having a hard time now sorting this stuff out and spend a lot of time crying about it. I have working toward becoming a Cantor (Jewish), and feel like this is my calling, Yet, I cannot be openly gay and also be a Cantor. I also have two children and feaer the impact of being openly gay on them. I want my kids to be happy and not have to struggle with their sexuality. I also want grandchildren.

I wish I was 25 again, without kids and just on my own so that I could just choose to be gay or not and not have to think about kids, etc.

Your post is helpful...thanks!

LanceC


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#51556 - 08/22/01 08:22 AM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I read that the most common sympton of SA besides depression is sexual identity issues.
G-d knows I have them. I'm trying to embrace them though. Maybe its fun to always have the option if not even only in your mind!


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#51557 - 08/23/01 03:01 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks, Brett. I appreciate your thoughts and support! I am fianlly past my sex adiciont now and met a great guy. We have been dating for aobut 2 months now, and I adore him. I have never felt this way about anyone before. It is really great to have finally allowed myself to get close to someone...it is the first time, and he is my first love. I do not know where it wil lead in the long run, but it sure is good to finally have taken the risk to allow someone in. I don't know if I could ever feel this way about a woman. So far, I have not.

Thanks again.

LanceC


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#51558 - 08/28/01 11:09 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Lance,

A few things in your posts resonated with me and I figured I'd throw in my two cents.

As for the sexuality/abuse issue (does it make us gay?): my situation is a little complex. I was molested at an early age (6-9) by my older sister (13-16). After that, for the most part, I did not have sex again until I was 24. Since this new sex was with with men (and all other sex has been likewise), I always wondered in the back of my mind if what my sister did to me turned my desires away from women. I was definitely freaked out by the abuse and I figured it had to play a part.

After speaking with therapists and reading books, I've discovered that most educated professionals don't believe sexual trauma affects basic sexuality. Sure, abuse gives an entry into a world you might not have known intimately otherwise, but it doesn't determine anything completely.

Clinically speaking, people who advocate the idea that abuse affects sexuality would predict that I would not be gay since my abuser was a female. Instead, I would either retreat from sex, or exhibit Don Juanism. Neither were the case. After a three-year relationship, I did start having a lot of casual sex, but everything was with men.

Right now, I'm just beginning to really confront the incest/abuse. I did a little therapy two years ago and then brought it up to my sister soon after. After putting things on hold for a while, I'm now hoping to attend a group session soon. I'm just beginning to see how this has all really fucked up how I relate with people, and I'm hoping that some community will relieve the crushing anxiety I often have.

Okay, I'm rambling now. I was going to send this just to Lance, but I thought I'd just post it in general as I guess that is what this is for, no?

I'm pretty green to all this. Thanks for reading everybody.


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#51559 - 08/29/01 08:19 PM Re: Male Abuse and Homosexuality: Any Connections?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have to say that finding this forum was one of the most revealing things in my life. I always imagined that something was wrong with me.

I was molested by my father as a teenager. That fact I am absolutely certain of - where as some of the other posts seem to be somewhat unsure at times.

Since that happened, I have suffered from tremendous sexual anxiety. I know I am attracted to women. I enjoy sex with women. However, I have a compulsion to explore sex with men. And unlike women - where I have some longer-term interest in them, my male interest is compulsive and anonymus. I don't want to know them. I just want them to use me.

I know what is happening is wrong. It goes against my religion. I know that women arouse me. However, ever since my father died, I have had numerous male male encounters and feel that I need to prove something to myself.

I do not even know what the question is that I am asking. I just need to know something. And it keeps driving me back more and more.

If anyone argues that our sexual identity is wired at birth, I would conject that some jack*ss probably re-wired some of us.

I do not disapprove of homosexuality. Don't get me wrong. I have actually found some satisfaction from my male - male experiences. However, much like my father forced me to be the giver of pleasure - I only engage in activities where I am giving now. I am not interested in receiving sex from another man.

I don't understand it. It is never something I rationally chose to do. Instead, it is highly compulsive. I frequently find myself in situations that I do not entirely remember how I got into them to begin with. It is like this quest that has never been fulfilled.

My feelings run from "look what you did to me you bastard" feelings towards my father, to feeling that I should humiliate myself to intensely enjoying doing it. Talk about confusing. And I don't want to stop. I want to do more and more and more until I understand why I want to do it.

If I were receiving sexual pleasure from it (instead of being the giver), I would chalk it up as being bi-sexual or homosexual. I have no problem with that. But what totally escapes me is why I feel the need to give pleasure to some stanger, but not take it in return. It is like I am reliving what my father tried to do to me. But this time, it is me doing it to my self.

I would love to know why. Like I said, it is like I ahve this quesiton that needs to be answered, but I don't know what the question is.


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