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#50069 - 07/10/06 12:49 PM Grooming
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I recently received a PM from someone asking if I could explain what grooming meant (author to remain anonymous).

I have responded, and thought that others may gain from my response, so here it is!

_________________________________

In the UK, when we say that a paedophile has groomed someone, it means that they gained their trust, before committing abuse.

In my case, the paedophile first had a conversation with me when I was walking my dog. He obviously managed to find out a few of my interests, and that I regularly walked my dog in that area. I was just turned 12 years old at the time.

He managed to bump into me again either the next day, or shortly afterwards. He mentioned that he had air rifles, and asked me if I would like to learn to fire them. *One of my Grandfathers had rifles, and I had gone for walks with him when I was younger and lived in another town. I had no reason to mistrust the paedophile (I didn't know what a paedophile was, and didn't even know what any form of sex was. This was 1969, and we were not as educated then in the ways of the world).

He told me that my dog may frightened by the rifles, and that I should leave him at home. I met him the following day, and we went to a local quarry to fire the rifles. This quarry was quite close to houses and a main road. I did not feel uncomfortable at all, and nothing untoward happened.

These circumstances repeated themselves several times. He had also started to give me money, so that I could go and buy sweets and fruit, and then meet him at the quarry. My grandfathers and one uncle had also bought me sweets and fruit, when I went for walks with them from a very young age. All of this seemed normal to me! I trusted him like an older brother (I now know that he was 32 to my 12 years at the time).

What he had also done by this time, was ensure that no one would see me walking along there with him.

As he built my trust, we started going to another quarry that was well away from any houses or roads.

We again started to fire the rifles at targets. By this time, I totally trusted him. He was no different to my Grandfathers and my Uncle that had taken me for walks when I was younger. I loved him the same way that I loved my relatives - he was a welcome replacement for them, as I no longer had there support network because they lived too far away (not many people had cars / telephones then).

It had taken several weeks to get to this point, he had fully gained my trust. It was at this point that he suggested playing different games. He asked if I had any football shorts, as this would make the games easier. The only ones I had were always in the wash from playing sports at school, so I said I didn't, but I did have swimming trunks (how stupid I was). He said that would be fine, and that I could wear them under my jeans, which I agreed to do! That's how innocent I was.

The games had to be played in a different location. There were several near by that suited his needs. The main location was an old railway wagon that had skylights (it was the latter part of the year, but still light enough for him to see what he wanted to).

The games started off with me lying down, jeans below my knees and my jumper over my face - I don't really know what he was doing at this point, but I can imagine.

He started placing coins on my body, and I had to guess what value they were. Again he initially practiced restraint, so that I still thought this was normal. I got to understand that everyone did this growing up, but that no one ever said anything about it!

He asked me if I had ever relieved myself, and I didn't really understand the question. I thought he meant urinating, so I said yes.

This was when he gently pulled my swimming trunks down and placed further coins on more sensitive parts of my body. He then started to manipulate me. From there on, the games got more sexual - at no time did I ever realise what we were doing was wrong. He always treated me with great respect (so I thought at the time).

The nights got darker, and our locations changed. The last time I saw him, we were standing against the base of a water tanker, just off the footpath through the fields to the quarry. We were probably only 200 yards away from the main road.

He suddenly told me to stand still and be quiet. In the moonlight I could see a policeman walking along the path about 20 yards away.

I didn't understand why we had to be quiet? As we walked away shortly afterwards, I told him that I wasn't seeing him again! I didn't know why, but I had realised that something wasn't right & I still trusted him.

This made me very confused. Gradually over the next few months, due to schoolyard banter, I actually found out what most people really did sexually, and it was nothing to do with what I had been led to believe!

So he groomed me - built up my trust to get what he wanted.

This is why I find it very difficult to trust anyone to this day. My subconscious is always switched on, wondering why anyone is really interested in me.

Hope that answers your question.

If you have any further questions, please ask. It actually helps when I write it down!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#50070 - 07/10/06 02:22 PM Re: Grooming
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
Rik,

Very good de>

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#50071 - 07/10/06 02:23 PM Re: Grooming
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I'm glad you brought this up Rik.

Oh and how some are masters at their skill level, like my perp was.

I've come to notice that what "grooming" entails, it's a probing of defenses. The whole time that your perp is interacting with you as a boy, he's saying to himself, "Has his parents told him what to do if I touch him there?" "What if I ask start doing this or that?" "Will he say no?"

Parent communication is the key. Parents are neglectful if they don't tell their children what to do if someone starts violating set boundries. (I don't care if there wasn't "public awareness of sexual abuse of boys" back then, my parents were still neglectful the way I see it).

My perp was so good at manipulating me that when I tried to say no to his sexual stuff, he would withdraw his attention and affections. Then, I found myself coming BACK to him and say that I'M sorry!!! He was so good at grooming that he never asked me not to tell, because he already knew that I wouldn't. (Well, I did but not untill decades later and after he died). He knew that I was ashamed of what I "let" him do. geezz...........

I got distracted sorry, like I said though Rik, thanks for bringing this up.


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#50072 - 07/10/06 02:55 PM Re: Grooming
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rik,

yes they are very masterful, one I knew tried every trick in the book on me.
None of it worked though because I had already been hurt before.

He only left me alone when I threatened him with the cops,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#50073 - 07/15/06 10:20 PM Re: Grooming
ARW Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: LA
Well said. I wish I could remember in such detail the events living with my perp, beyond a few isolated snippets, all pretty horrifying. Alas, it's a murky blur. But I remember a lot of the grooming. He was excellent. Patiently and expertly studied my feeling towards my parents until he could sever any remaining trust that was left and leave me entirely in his trust. It worked. And to such a degree that 28 years later I still have the same inherent distrust and disrupted bond with my surviving parent.

alex

_________________________
In every cry of every man,
In every Infant's cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forged manacles I hear.
-William Blake

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#50074 - 07/16/06 01:17 AM Re: Grooming
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Alex - recently I hit the 49th birthday.

The perp was convicted (sentenced) on March 17th this year. I wish I could get his face out of my eyes. Not the face that he showed when he was convicted...the face that I remember from when I was a child. It was a face I trusted!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#50075 - 07/17/06 05:03 AM Re: Grooming
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 316
Loc: Texas
It depends opn the perp. a violent perp will work to be sure no authority figure is listenning to the child and gradually increase the level of violence. The reason you here about so many places where they are filthy is not just an accident or a sign of sickness. if it botheres the parent enough to take them out of there, that is an early sign that they will protect the child. then they may let the child see them hurt an unrelated child. all this happens gradually and if the parent takes them out before the abuse starts there is no evidence of any seriouse crime. by the time the abuse gets bad and the frquency is chronic the child has realized (correctly) that the parents will either disbelieve or be embarrased and abandon the child. i hope my righting is ok i cant talk anymore about this hope it helps.

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#50076 - 07/19/06 02:07 PM Re: Grooming
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
i dont undrstand all this. my stepbrothr thretened me a lot and was mean and scared me into doing things. thats not the same thing rite?

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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#50077 - 07/19/06 03:51 PM Re: Grooming
ARW Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: LA
No, that's direct abuse. Grooming is a more indirect form of abuse, which usually precedes the actual direct abuse. It involves psyhcologically prepping a target so he or she becomes trusting and dependent on the perp.

A perfect example from the movies is the snake Kaa singing "Trust in me" to Mowgli, to lure him into his coils and devour him. Doesn't get much clearer than that. And I can tell you from experience, it feels about the same.

_________________________
In every cry of every man,
In every Infant's cry of fear,
In every voice, in every ban,
The mind-forged manacles I hear.
-William Blake

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#50078 - 07/19/06 03:56 PM Re: Grooming
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
ok thanks
i think its worse to trust him
first then get hurt

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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#50079 - 07/22/06 03:38 AM Re: Grooming
Syntaxed Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 54
Loc: St Louis, MO
I think you're right, Trevor, it is worse to trust him and then get abused.

My father died when I was so young that I don't even remember him and my mother never remarried or even dated.

When I was ten, a man from our church took me under his wing and took me fishing and boating and other things, even tried, awkwardly, to discuss the birds and the bees. Nothing he did was inappropriate. He was just a sweet man who saw I had no father figure and stepped in.

Then we moved to Florida and when I was twelve I really needed a father figure, bad.

In stepped a ready-made, grooming trained, experienced perp.

He took his time grooming me (a couple of months at least) and played on all my needs for a father. Then, like ARW said about Kaa, he sprung. Afterward, I kept going back for more to get the father figure I'd had before the abuse, but found that to get the father figure, I had to perform.

I, like the others here, trust no one. The abuse of trust has devastated my life.

I don't know, of course, because my abuse wasn't a quick rape or forced rape, but I can only imagine that abuse of trust and then rape has to be worse.

Then again, it really is all relative isn't it?

We're all broken in our own little ways aren't we?

But isn't it remarkable how much we have in common?

_________________________
At present: 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

http://sleepeatrepeat.blogspot.com

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#50080 - 07/22/06 04:44 AM Re: Grooming
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Trev,

You are so right. The most pain came from knowing that someone who I loved and trusted had hurt me. I felt betrayed and the betrayal hurt worse than the sexual abuse. \:\(

Love ya

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#50081 - 07/23/06 12:36 AM Re: Grooming
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Thanks everyone for your responses.

I waited until there were several responses, before posting again on this topic!

Before I came here, I had wished that I had been attacked by the pervert, beaten up so that he could have achieved what he wanted, rather than the slow grooming aspect.

I know that there are others here that will have read this post, that were attacked. I have read their stories here!

I know that there is no such thing as 'a better way of being abused'. It is all bad! Let none of us forget that!

I thought that if I had been attacked, maybe hit over the head with a hammer, and then abused, that I could have accepted that it was a maniac that damaged me! Well he didn't do that, and you cannot see my scars visually, but they are there in my brain. It was just a different type of maniac that did it!

Like I said, all abuse is bad! There is no league table!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#50082 - 07/23/06 12:41 AM Re: Grooming
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Just to add!

When I was in court, the judiciary seemed to focus on the sexual aspects of the case...that probably accounted for somewhere between 2 and 10 hours of my life. The impact on my mind has lasted for something like 36+ years...coming up to 37 in September/October!

I believe that the media also focus purely on the sexual aspect...how ignorant they are...how do we ever explain this to anyone, and get them to really understand?!?!

Best wishes again...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#50083 - 07/23/06 01:34 AM Re: Grooming
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
in my case the grooming lasted about a week and ended the first time ,he touched me and i said no. so we can never know but for the guys who were groomed maybe if the grooming didnt work the abuse would have been worse . but i do agree that being forced has different baggage to carry from being groomed ,bu t fighting and losing the fight has its own ways of screwing us up to,weither way surviving means giving in

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#50084 - 07/23/06 02:51 AM Re: Grooming
Syntaxed Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 54
Loc: St Louis, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by RICK57:
...you cannot see my scars visually, but they are there in my brain...
I like the way you put that, because I've often felt that if people could see my pain in some external way, they would understand better the pain inside.

Well said.

_________________________
At present: 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

http://sleepeatrepeat.blogspot.com

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#50085 - 07/24/06 01:41 AM Re: Grooming
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I think there's a really important aspect of grooming that needs to be added here.

Once a boy has been tricked into trusting the abuser, but then comes to see that something is very wrong, why doesn't he leave the abuser? Why doesn't he tell safe adults? What about cases where the abuser asks the boy "Shall I do this?", and the boy says "yes"? What about cases where the boy goes willingly or basically "reports" to the abuser on command?

A groomed boy, as in Rik's case with the air rifles at the quarry, has been attracted by something he likes and wants. If he breaks off the contacts, the exciting adventures will stop. So as he is just a young boy and doesn't understand what the abuse means anyway, and since his has learned to trust the abuser, it is easy for him to rationalize and keep going.

A boy whose fears are mounting will also find it difficult to say no because he doesn't want to look stupid, or because he fears the withdrawal of affection. If the groomed boy hesitates, the abuser can simply say "Don't you trust me?", and the boy, alarmed that he has offended his older "friend", will quickly agree to do what he wants.

In other cases the groomed boy is simply trapped as the abuser's charms turn to threats. "Everyone will say it was your fault", "No one will believe you", "I will come and 'get' you", "Your parents will throw you out of the house", "You will go to hell", etc., etc.

And finally, as the boy loses all sense of worth and feels totally ashamed and alone, he will do whatever the abuser wants because he genuinely thinks he isn't good for anything better than this. He may loathe the abuse, but at least it is something.

This is an important topic and thanks for launching it Rik. There are so many survivors here who feel guilty about things that happened, but once they understand how it all starts with skilled grooming they can see that every single incident - no matter how shameful and guilty they feel about it - goes back to the tricks of the perp and NOT to any guilt on the part of the boy.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#50086 - 07/24/06 01:58 AM Re: Grooming
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I would like to reiterate my perp's particualar grooming technique.

I got the feeling that there was something wrong with it after he wanted to do more than just touch and feel me.

He kept me from talking because he knew that I didn't want to say "Dad (or Mom), he was making put his dick in my mouth, he was rubbing it against me, etc." I was embarrassed to talk about it, hence I didn't. If I tried to object to it, or say that I didn't like to do it he would say, "It will just be between you and me, nobody else has to know, it's our secret". Fucking jerk, toyed around with the mind of a nine year old who was only looking for a friend.

If I had known how this was going to manifest itself later in my life, I WOULD HAVE TOLD WITHOUT HESITATION. But I tried to just forget about all of it. As most of us here know, trying to "forget" about it doesn't quite work.

I could not have been groomed like that had my parents armed me with information, and told me what to do in case someone did something like this to me.


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#50087 - 07/24/06 02:23 AM Re: Grooming
Syntaxed Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 54
Loc: St Louis, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by Hauser:
I got the feeling that there was something wrong with it after he wanted to do more than just touch and feel me.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hauser:

He kept me from talking because he knew that I didn't want to say "Dad (or Mom), he was making put his dick in my mouth, he was rubbing it against me, etc." I was embarrassed to talk about it, hence I didn't.
"My" asshole, fucking, evil perpetrator took me to the R-rated movies I wanted to see (that my mother would not let me see), bought me music (that my mom would not let me listen to), gave me beer and wine. He knew that if I told, the jig was up for me as well. He was also patient. He did this for a couple of months before the hook was in.

But perhaps most importantly, and completely unrelated to the perp's grooming, was my mother's unintentional grooming years earlier. My brother (7 years older) did something wrong once and the police showed up. After they left, my mother beat the living shit out of him with her fists, a belt, everything (he once "joked" that he was glad she couldn't lift the sofa, or she'd have hit him with that too). What reason did she give him as she was pounding him? He had embarassed her by having police cars in the driveway. What would the neighbors think?

After I figured out that what was happening was really wrong, I thought several times of blowing the whole thing wide open, but I knew the police would get involved and I didn't want to embarass my mother.

So, I guess I was groomed on two sides, huh?

Chris

_________________________
At present: 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

http://sleepeatrepeat.blogspot.com

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#50088 - 07/24/06 03:06 AM Re: Grooming
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
taxi guy said, "If you don't, I'll find somebody who will." That would have been fine with me except for the fact that if he did, I would loose him. Up untill I met taxi guy, I didn't know how good it felt to be touched or hugged. How could I risk looosing that. Then the day finely came and I did tell him NO He was gone just like that and I did loose him. And as he promised, he did find someone else, he found my friend Wayne who's pic is on Oprah's web page and on the FBI most wanted list. That's how bad taxi guy hurt my friend.

Love ya

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#50089 - 07/24/06 12:41 PM Re: Grooming
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Just to second what Darrel is saying. By the age of 12 I was so utterly groomed that there was nothing I would refuse to do with the abuser and no way I would refuse his orders to show up for what I knew would be more abuse.

I hated what was happening and loathed what I thought I had become, but just as in Darrel's case, when it was all over I missed him. I was heartbroken and thought he had rejected or abandoned me. I felt guilty and even more worthless.

I hope we can all see what's going on here. And abused kid quickly descends into a VERY dark place emotionally, a state of despair and worthlessness that seems to be unending and bottomless in its horror. But he is powerless against it, and even if he finally discovers some way to make things stop, the result may well be simply to transfer him to another domain of hurt and confusion.

We were not to blame, not for ANY of it.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#50090 - 07/24/06 02:03 PM Re: Grooming
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said here. But the way I see it, Kenny was patient and kind and always there for me after a fight w/my old man, understanding, gentle, loving and all the things a little kid wanted/needed in an adult. So he groomed me.

The other guys.. well they just took it from me and didn't care how I felt about it. A huge difference there.... Adam I know how you feel.

Rik... no such thing as a better way of being abused, I'm glad you said that. It's fucking damaging as hell when you love and trust the abuser and when they go it leaves you with all those shitty feelings to deal with. But when you're attacked/beat/raped, etc. Well I can tell you that I can't go anywhere without looking over my shoulder, waiting for it to happen again, standing in line at the fucking coffee shop wondering if the guy in front of me was one of them... constantly wondering "why" me, replaying it in my head over and over wondering if it was just bad timing on my part, something I said, how I looked, something I did... If I wasn't so drunk, if I didn't go to that party, if I didn't need a ride home, if I didn't "trust" that guy... were they watching me for a while and just waiting for the opportunity? or was it random? Are they still around? Are they planning on doing it again? Have they done it to anyone else?

At least with Kenny I know why he did it. But these guys, I don't know... I sit around thinking "why didn't they just kill me". Why did they leave me half dead? was it on purpose because they knew I'd have to live with this sickness and paranoia? I don't know... I don't think one abuse is any better/worse than another but if I had to pick one, I'd pick Kenny.

I never said anything about it to my parents because if I told my mom she would have told my dad and then I'd get the beating of my life. Only one to take care of me after that was Kenny so... what was the point.

Jay


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#50091 - 07/24/06 06:42 PM Re: Grooming
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Quote:
But the way I see it, Kenny was patient and kind and always there for me after a fight w/my old man, understanding, gentle, loving and all the things a little kid wanted/needed in an adult.
I'm very sorry that I have to say this, but a man who is all those positive things that you saw in Kenny acts that way out of concern for the welfare of the boy. He does it because he feels that any boy deserves and needs safe adults to talk to and confide in. When we see that in reality he was just trying to build up "credit" and trust to get the kid into bed, then we realize that the boy's welfare and needs had nothing to do with it, right from the start. The abuser was just that: a predator thinking only of himself.

It isn't the boy's responsibility to notice this, and facing that this is how it was can be very painful. But I'm afraid this is the reality of it all the same. That's part of the heartbreaking cruelty of abuse, the way a boy's trust is so totally betrayed.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#50092 - 07/24/06 06:58 PM Re: Grooming
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I know he never really cared. He was only acting like he was everything my father wasn't so I'd trust him. I wish I could forgive myself for falling into his trap. I wish things were different, I just wish my mother was different, I wish she helped me when she knew, I wish I didn't live thru it


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#50093 - 07/24/06 08:23 PM Re: Grooming
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

You didn't do anything for which you need to forgive yourself. All you did was what all boys do: trust adults they look up to. It was your right to do that, and when you extended your trust to him he should have respected that for what it was - a genuine honor.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#50094 - 07/24/06 09:00 PM Re: Grooming
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
My grooming took place over a number of months at first the only physical contact was a lot of tickling something I had not experienced since the death of my much loved grandfather, so i enjoyed it and it was very pleasurable. My original abuser was definately my surrogate father as my patrenal father was an emotionally dead, materialistic arsehole.

Chris (my original abuser)would do anything for me, gifts, trips up to London, free records as he was a (non working) professional DJ and head of promotion for a very successful record company. Eating out in restaurants some very expensive ones as well, request being palyed immediately on radio luxembourg or radio one as he had direst access to the broadcasting studios, being introduced to others in the music biz who would in turn go onto abuse me, I'm afraid it impressed me very much and I fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Chris was there for me whenever I fell out with my father offering support, advice and occasionally a place to stay (nothing happened on thses occasions). Then one day I was invited over to his hose to listen to some new releases whereupon he showed me a straight porn film, being only 14 I had never seen anythig like it, it was then he pounced and that was basically it, he then told me who his uncle was, he was Master of the Rolls Lord denning (now dead) a very, very powerful judge and that I was "very proberbly gay or at the least bisexual" god that fucked my head up for years. What followed was a drug and alcohol fueled existance that took in football violnce, petty crime and eventually domestic violence and three failed suicide attempts (I was usually too pissed to succeed) also spending five years in differing psychiatric units and drug rehabs, that period of my life lasted thirty years.

Today I have been clean and sober for over a decade now got myself an education and seen three of my abusers convicted but as yet I have still to enter a court of law, today I fight the paedos head on by infiltrating their message boards (no graphics or imagry) and forward what I find out to the appropiate authorities by way of other friends within the survivor community.

There has been an explosion of "how to avoid conviction sites" since Operation Ore hit the UK and the popoganda that they are putting out has to be read to be believed.

I also now sit on a governemnt appointed experts panel which is an eye opener for me to see how the powers that be actually work, the only word that describes this work ethic is very slowly. I will be posting some information for the guys from the UK just how that process is going, in the not too distant future.

Last word I would have much rather have been attacked, beaten up and raped like Rik has said at least my street cred would have remained intact within my head ..... I think.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#50095 - 07/24/06 09:06 PM Re: Grooming
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
"Last word I would have much rather have been attacked, beaten up and raped like Rik has said at least my street cred would have remained intact within my head ..... I think."

I don't understand this at all Kirk...
Jay


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#50096 - 07/24/06 09:40 PM Re: Grooming
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Hi Jaysen.

I apologise if I have caused you any confusion it was not intended.

"I don't understand this at all Kirk..."

No I didnt when I first thought of it when reading what Rik had written.

What I mean is this I would not have gone down without a fight and maybe inflicted some damage on my abuser, it may, just may have given me a bit of street credability instead of a feeling of could I be a poof, queer or whatever you want to call it.

Sorry once again for the confusion.

kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#50097 - 07/25/06 12:34 AM Re: Grooming
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
No Kirk I wasn't confused at the post in general, just confused... or maybe a better way to say it is I can't understand why you'd say that. I had both, groomed by my uncle then a few years later I was taken/kidnapped, held for 3 or 4 days and during that time they tortured the fuck out of me, beat me, raped me and left me for dead. Don't think for a second that I didn't fight back with every fucking last ounce of will that I had. Street credability has nothing to do with it. This is my opinion only of course and eveyone's entitled to their own point of view. It just kind of hit a sore spot with me. If you experienced that kind of attack you might think differently. Then again maybe not... I don't know. I just had to tell you how I felt about it.
Thanks for the reply and nothing personal, just my opinion.
Jay


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#50098 - 07/25/06 01:16 AM Re: Grooming
Syntaxed Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 54
Loc: St Louis, MO
I think it's all relative, isn't it?

Abuse is abuse is abuse. Both kinds of perps are hideous monsters who leave scars, sometimes internal and sometimes external.

Grooming predators destroy our confidence, self-esteem, identity, trust, everything. My sister-in-law (who was also abused) says it best. She says it's like one of those creeping vines that reaches into every part of our lives and infects it. Everything we do, say, or feel is filtered through the lenses of the abuse.

It would seem to me (as I don't know, personally) that being forecfully raped and tortured has its own set of devastations and long-term implications. I've known women who've been raped and they are a shell of their former selves.

So, honestly, I wouldn't prefer either, and I hurt for everyone on this site who has been violated, either instantly and violently, or over time and coercively. It all sucks, and it all tears us to shreds. There is no preferable way for this to happen.

It's all relative.

Chris

_________________________
At present: 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

http://sleepeatrepeat.blogspot.com

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#50099 - 07/25/06 01:30 AM Re: Grooming
Syntaxed Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 54
Loc: St Louis, MO
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirk Wayne:
...today I fight the paedos head on by infiltrating their message boards (no graphics or imagry) and forward what I find out to the appropiate authorities by way of other friends within the survivor community...
Good for you!

I visited the NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association, I think is what the acronym stands for) site a few years ago and it made me fucking sick. There were message boards on this site where the sick bastards compared notes on how to get a kid into bed.

I remember the one that made me almost puke and forced me to literally turn off my computer involved some guy explaining how he started out letting the kid swim in his pool and then "suggested" that he take a shower afterward. He'd peeked a couple of times, but was really looking for some advice on how to proceed. And, of course, there were a bunch of suggestions. Fuckers.

Personally, I think the internet is fueling child sexual abuse. It used to be that these people had to hide in the shadows. If they wanted child porn, they had to find it in obscure places or risk having it sent through the mail. They were certainly not part of any peer group. Now, with the internet, they can readily get child porn, talk to kids in chat rooms (with video for God's sake), and, with these message boards, they're part of a clique, giving each other advice and empowering each other to take the next step.

I believe with all my heart that we're going to see an explosion of CSA over the next 50 years. It scares the hell out of me.

As my wife says, if we went after all the sexual abusers in this country, the country would collapse. There aren't enough jails, and the number of political and religious and business and educational leaders who would go down would absolutely cripple us.

And look at the devastation it's doing. To us. To our families. To our kids. I've only been here a few days, but it looks like we're all pretty much on the same ride, and the ride gets out of control and affects everyone around us.

I'm sorry, I guess this was a little off topic, but I just had to say Kudos to Kirk. I wish I had the stomach to do what he's doing.

It's sickening.

_________________________
At present: 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

http://sleepeatrepeat.blogspot.com

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#50100 - 07/25/06 01:45 AM Re: Grooming
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Jaysen

I apologize for not thinking my posting through it was very insensitive of me and pretty gross to think that no one may have been in your situation when I know that some have.

I am sure I would think differently if it had happened to me. I was raped a few times by different perps and that was painfull enough both pysically and mentally if I had recieved a beating as well I am pretty sure that would have caused its own set of problems.

Those rapes have consequncies even to this day. Earlier today I had an appoinment at the hospital for yet another internal examination as I suffer from tearing of my retum (anal fissure) and heamoroids I find the examination extremely upsetting, not the actual examination but the feeling after it feels as though I have been screwed again. Its half past one in the morning over here in the UK and Im still up as I cannot sleep because it is too hot and my tail end hurts like hell as I have had my heamoroids banded and the sensation is not enjoyable whatsoever and my mind keeps wandering back to events in 1971 because of the sensations I am feeling. Its a real pisser but I will get through it as this is not the first and I am sure it wont be the last time I go through this.

Thankyou Syntax I will accept those kind words with the grace they deserve but in all honesty I want to beat the bastards at their own game and as they say knowledge is power ..... Any of us could do what I am doing as we all know their>

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#50101 - 07/25/06 02:20 AM Re: Grooming
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Jaysen, Kirk can say that because he hasn't been taken advantage of in the violent way; he has no frame of reference. He may have general idea of what it would have been like, perhaps, but based on incomplete data. I was in his shoes when I was younger - having to deal with being abused is bad enough; it's absolutely gut-wrenching to think that you went along with or enjoyed it, as I'm sure you understand. For a while, I too wished I had been attacked and violently abused, because it would've made things SIMPLE (in my mind). In such a case, I'd be able to say "He was three times my size, and I fought but just couldn't win." Instant victim - no questions asked. Instead, I had to deal with the fact that I'd said "Yes", that nobody forced me to keep going over and doing those things, but I went and did them anyway. Such thoughts were terrible.

My parents were never the lovey-dovey type with me. They were very instructive and respectful and supportive of things I wanted to do, they just weren't terribly affectionate. They did the best they could in their way, and I have no complaints whatsoever. But when my perpetrators started grooming me, their job was ridiculously easy. The affection and flirting and attention was bizzare in a good way; like some kind of cocaine, and like the mouse in that old anti-drug commercial, I was willing to spend all day hitting the button over and over again to get the machine to dispense more. They took me to Sea World with their kids; to water parks, to the caverns. We did cool stuff, things my parents hadn't able to afford to do with me (again, not their fault). My parents at the time were in the middle of a divorce anyway, and the people I was staying with just regarded me as a low-maintenance light fixture or something, so I suppose you could say the perps "touched me in all the right places" before the abuse started. I liked them, they were great people. They treated me like an adult, like an equal. I thought they did all this because they genuinely liked and respected me. It felt very good. When the sex started, physical pleasure aside, there was of course some emotional uneasiness about the situation. I knew something wasn't quite right. But in the scale of my mind, the wonderful feeling of being respected and liked outweighed the troubling feelings. Like any junkie, my addiction overruled any reservations I may have had about any activities necessary to feed it.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#50102 - 07/25/06 02:27 AM Re: Grooming
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
"They treated me like an adult, like an equal. I thought they did all this because they genuinely liked and respected me. It felt very good. When the sex started, physical pleasure aside, there was of course some emotional uneasiness about the situation. I knew something wasn't quite right. But in the scale of my mind, the wonderful feeling of being respected and liked outweighed the troubling feelings. Like any junkie, my addiction overruled any reservations I may have had about any activities necessary to feed it".

Thats just about hit the nail on the head for me milliferal.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#50103 - 07/25/06 01:02 PM Re: Grooming
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Thanks again everyone for your responses.

When I started this post, I thought it might at least help a few of the newer people here. I thought that there may be a few comments added.

What's happened is that many of you have opened up and said what it really feels like. I can see it all now from the 'real' perspective that was forming in my mind.

It's all bad, however it happened. Lets throw the guilt out of the window, and back at the perverted paedophiles that brought us all here!

We are decent people, they are not!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#50104 - 07/25/06 01:28 PM Re: Grooming
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Nicely said Rik.


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#50105 - 10/22/06 07:54 PM Re: Grooming
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Larry - thought I'd bring this one back to the top to complement your current post on grooming.

It's got many very good responses, so I thought it may benefit some of the newer people here.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#50106 - 10/22/06 08:57 PM Re: Grooming
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I was thinking about this topic, and Hell it had nothing to do with me, but it did.
This guy always used to turn up at places after following me with friends.

This was after abuse, but it scared me, and he just seemed to know what kids wanted and say, hey, I got this and that for nothing just come pick it up.

I did find out where he lived and young boys came and went, but he really had his radar on me.
I only remember being terrified to tell anyone.

They wont believe you, or think you are a whore boy is what I would have thought, but hey, this is what they did to you, they knew you would be terrified to tell.

That is what kept us silent,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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