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#49945 - 12/08/06 04:13 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
what i do when this subject comes up is go to the my story forum and go back and read as many of them as i can stand ,if you can do that and still think of forgiving ,every post of despair and desperation on this site tell me that no perp deserves forgivness,i'll ask my question one more time if its not my fault ,if everything i have been and done since my abuse was a direct effect of that abuse then what the hell do i have to forgive myself for? there is a huge difference between forgiving something like abuse and forgiving some petty wrong i might have done in my life!!!yeah maybe i stold food from a store to eat ,wrong ?yes but how the hell does that compare to abusing a child!? saying we have to forgive is not right ,every person has to make their own choice and one shows strength ,and just maybe the other shows weakness its up to us to decide which is which . another post kind of refers to this subject but i see a different response ,the post about johnathon king ,every response says its a great thing hes been shut down on myspace and will be arrested sooner or later for things he has done ,when that happens should we forgive him ? then why bust them at all ? so we can spend a million dollars giving him the help he needs while in prison while his victims starve because they cant function in society?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#49946 - 12/08/06 04:27 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I hear you there Shadow and Mike!!

Nobs? Are you saying that we're OBLIGATED to forgive even if they don't want it?

Another point: I HAVE forgiven my perps and I STILL don't feel any better about myself. What's THAT all about? Seriously, I have forgiven them, I don't want to carry hate in my heart, but I STILL don't feel "healed" or "better". It's frustrating to hear others say "Wow I wish I was so far along in healing that I could forgive like you have". But, it has not done me any good thus far.

So.........I find myself kind of asking Jacob's question myself. "I mean, it is for our benefit, so if it does not benefit us why do it?"


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#49947 - 12/08/06 05:52 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by Hauser:
Nobs? Are you saying that we're OBLIGATED to forgive even if they don't want it?
No, I'm not saying that at all. Forgiveness is a choice. I personally believe that it is the right choice, and that is all I have said.

Quote:
Another point: I HAVE forgiven my perps and I STILL don't feel any better about myself. What's THAT all about? Seriously, I have forgiven them, I don't want to carry hate in my heart, but I STILL don't feel "healed" or "better". It's frustrating to hear others say "Wow I wish I was so far along in healing that I could forgive like you have". But, it has not done me any good thus far.
If you have truly forgiven your perps, then that is a major step. Your statement says it all. When I read "I don't want to carry hate in my heart," I get a great feeling inside, because getting rid of hate is the beginning of learning to love.

Hauser, one thing I have noticed is that you are very hard on yourself, and perhaps that is why you don't feel you are making progress. The only thing I can recommend (because we have never met and I don't know you well enough to give you specific advice) is that you use the same logic you used to forgive your perps; "I don't want to carry hate in my heart," to learn to stop hating yourself. I honestly think you are 3/4 of the way there already, so maybe that statement is the key.

Quote:
So.........I find myself kind of asking Jacob's question myself. "I mean, it is for our benefit, so if it does not benefit us why do it?"
Well, I would argue that you are benefiting because you are freeing your heart from hatred. Maybe it is a matter of time before you see the other benefits within your healing process. Or maybe its like I said before; you are well on the way in your healing, but you need to go a little easier on yourself so you can see the positive changes. At any rate I am very happy to hear that you have forgiven your perps. It is a very courageous thing to do and I salute you.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#49948 - 12/08/06 08:53 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
Wornoutsoul Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Europe
Forgive?? Give me back my childhood and I will forgive.

FAIR??

_________________________
Here to help and inspire.....

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#49949 - 12/08/06 02:59 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
It would be nice if I FELT BETTER about forgiving them, and t's been quite a long time since I've done it too.


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#49950 - 12/08/06 05:13 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
Wornoutsoul,
I think that is almost an equitable offer. But, I would want a good share of my adulthood back as well.
Steve


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#49951 - 12/10/06 10:45 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
The statement: "Some things cannot be forgiven." receives the response: "Why not?" The statement also illicits the response: "That we all hurt others."

Well OK, I believe that in my lifetime I will have hurt others in some way! What I do not do, is repeatedly hurt others without any real justification for my actions! I certainly have never been in a position where I set out to systematically hurt other members of society! I will never be in a position whereby I would systematically hurt /groom / abuse the most vulnerable and precious members of our society - INNOCENT CHILDREN!

As I stated above, the perp that groomed and abused me, used others both before and after me for his own gratification!

I finally externalised my anger in 2004 (abused in 1969), directing it back towards the perp (a very positive use of anger). The positive result of that anger is that a conviction was achieved and the perp had 'his toys' taken away from him for good in March of this year (good being life). I was 12 when I was abused (he was 32) - I believe that on March 17th 2007, a part of me will finally reach it's 13th birthday - 36 years too late. The court case ended his 40+ years 'career'. If he decides to start 'playing with his toys' again, he goes straight to jail. Is a 40+ years career of abusing children really forgiveable????

Is the implication that I should have said, "OK, JF what you did to me and numerous others had no real impact upon our lives. We are all now absolutely well balanced individuals thanks to everything that you did for us. If it hadn't been for your actions, we would never have made it this far, to be such well rounded adults. I really hope that you abused many more people than I actually believed you did, because they will have benefited immensely from the experience."

That would be absolute bollocks - he deserves every bit of pain that he feels, and I'm sure that he does not feel enough! It is my firm belief that if he had not been stopped, he would still be up to his old tricks.

When I mention forgiving myself (earlier post), what I mean is that for years I blamed myself for allowing it to happen! I was an intelligent (if naive) kid - how did I fall into his trap? That is why I say I forgive myself!

I previously stated that my energies are better spent supporting those who need it, rather than on forgiving paedophiles.

I am currently supporting a friend who has been diagnosed with a tumour, and who will shortly be having an operation to improve matters. I am also supporting a friend who is in the early stages of preparing to take a stepfather to court for paedophile activities (multiple abuse of several members/generations of the same family). These are the people that deserve my energy!

JF can go rot in the hell of his own making! Forgive him? I wished that years ago I had realised what he was doing was wrong! I may have had the opportunity to push him off one of the railway bridges where he abused me, as a train was passing underneath! I think the courts would have understood that one!

Forgive? NO, NO, NO - NEVER.

Best wishes...Rik

What has been taken is far to precious, and cannot be given back! It is far too precious to have a price!

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#49952 - 12/11/06 01:48 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
What has been taken, and why can't it be given back?

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#49953 - 12/11/06 02:12 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Surely that is a rhetorical question!?

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#49954 - 12/11/06 02:15 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
innocence ? wonder? faith? the ability to trust? the look in a kids eyes when he sees a rainbow ,the feeling in his heart when he is accepted ,but yes we did get something in return so maybe the perps are not so selfish, we got shame, guilt ,despair ,depression ,panic attacks ,ptsd. confusion ,betrayl, should i go on ? what was taken was our chance to grow and develop normaly ,which is essential to function in society, they call it abuse but lets be serious k? its murder,because a wonderfull innocent human being ceased to exist , oh yeah maybe we survived ,but can you honestly say that the survivor is the same person that went into hell ?the first time my perp hit me an 11 year old boy died ,it was like i aged one year every time he hit me ,i went into hell a kid,i came out an old man ,tell me please how i can get that back?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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