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#49902 - 12/03/06 08:01 AM FORGIVE????????
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
This is a question I have have for anyone who wishes to respond. I have been here for almost a year. And so many time I have heard that some of us have forgiven their abuser. That this is some level of success in healing. I doubt that I will ever forgive my abuser. He was a monster and deserves no level of "forgiveness" from me. For my healing of mental and social health. My feeling is that this is not a twelve step program we must follow to find health or Nirvana. This may sound likle it is born out of aner.....because I am angry. I sit in the chatroom and talk to others....feeling for them......loving them unconditionally because I know them and what they are feeling without ever meeting them face to face. We are damaged humans because someone with no feelings for our response to their actions......hurt us deeply. If forgiving them for their actions is part of healing....please someone explain this concept to me.


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#49903 - 12/03/06 11:59 AM Re: FORGIVE????????
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
If you dont forgive you suffer more than you do if you do forgive.

Forgive yourself,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#49904 - 12/03/06 01:40 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Steve, much of how a person is able to forgive his perp depends on how it effected him as a victim.

I'm not ready to elaborate (in depth) about how it effected me except to say that I saw that dark side that he (my perp) embraced, and I did not. I was there, I was at one of those moments, a moment that was exactly just like the one he made when he victimized me so long ago now. I know exactly why he did it so it's much easier for me to forgive something that I comprehend.

Also, my perp was a manipulator, not the monsterously evil, threatening type of perp. Hence, I don't have the nightmares, the flashbacks, the shakes, the panick atacks, etc., which are common traits here. If I had to deal with THOSE kinds of effects of CSA, I would not so readily forgive him.

Another thing to consider before forgiving a perp is this: Don't forgive until you realize just how bad he hurt you. It IS possible to forgive to soon.

And I just thought of this in closing: Just becuase you forgive him doesn't mean that you have to like him, it means that you're trying to have love in your heart instead of hate. Hate is a very heavy thing for me to carry around, I dropped that a long time ago.


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#49905 - 12/03/06 05:17 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
TJ jeff Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3368
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Steven,

you do not forgive the abuser for their benefit (what they done to you was extemely wrong - they deserve no forgiveness for their benefit) - you do it only for your benefit - forgiveness is not about the abuser - it is about you... - to release yourself of some of the anger/fear/guilt/shame/embarrassment/ect... - the release of the deep feelings that we been carrying within us for so long - feelings that have robbed us of so much in life...

my abusers want no level of forgiveness from me - they have made that perfectly clear... - my trying to forgive them is something that I only do for myself - not for them...

as Hauser said - carrying hate around with us for so many years has wasted so much energy that we could use for other (better) things in life...

I do hope that you are able to forgive - but it has to be something you do for YOU - and you need to do it when you feel ready to - and forgiveness is not even something that happens instantly when we are ready - it does take time...

Take good care of yourself,

TJ jeff

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#49906 - 12/03/06 07:14 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Steve...I am on hiatus from the Discussion Board, but I've attached a post that I wrote on forgiveness a while ago. I hope it helps you with your struggle.

Take care,

Nobby
--------------------

Forgiveness

Forgiveness is accepting the fact that your perp is human. Simple as that. To do otherwise is selfish and will lead to hate. Hate leads to self-destruction. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but this is what I believe to be the truth.

Let me ask these questions; if you ever got the opportunity to take revenge on your perp and you did something to harm him, what would you become? Do you think the police would be justified for arresting you for assault (which they would surely do) and a judge for having you sentenced? Do you think that taking revenge would in any way change what was done to you?

I get frustrated with this mentality that perps "owe" us something. They don't owe us anything. They chose an evil path, and we were their victims, but that's where it ends. All matters of justice are for the courts to determine. Our perps' salvation is a matter between them and God. There may be some reparation due to us for damages, but again, that is a matter for the courts. There is simply no debt that must be discharged between our perps and ourselves.

Now, for those of you who are still with me and not furiously writing me a nasty email or reply to this post, here is the truth of the matter. Perps are human beings, and human beings are prone to failure and making mistakes. Some fail in terrible ways and do great evil, such as raping children.

I know how deeply it hurts to be betrayed, believe me, I know. I was raped by a man who held me as a newborn. But what you simply have to accept, before you will truly heal, is that your perp was innocent once, and he has the potential to be rehabilitated back to normal life. The administrators of this site will tell you many stories of perps who have been rehabilitated. By not forgiving them, we are refusing to accept that our perps can be redeemed. Now I'm not saying that it is our responsibility to heal our perps; what I'm saying is that our forgiveness has nothing to do with our perps. Forgiveness is accepting that they are human, just like everyone else. It is accepting that people can fail, and do evil things, and it is also accepting that they can be brought back to good.

I have forgiven my perp. This does not mean that I will stop working with the police to have him brought to justice, nor does it mean that I will ever go out for beers with him. What it does mean is that I accept that he is human. He will answer for his crimes, but that is a matter between him and the Courts. He may decide that he has done horrible things and he needs help, and he can go hire a therapist for that. By forgiving him, I am healing myself from the only true damage that my perp did to me; that is I am finally understanding and accepting what it means to be human.

Please take care and understand that this post was written out of love, and that I am not trying to hurt any of you. I just wanted to share my healing experience with you, in the hopes that some of you might be able to find something in it that helps with your own healing.

Love

Nobby

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#49907 - 12/03/06 08:00 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
Steven Heath Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 81
Loc: New York City
Thanks for all of you thoughts guys. It causes me to pause my anger and think. That is all I can do for now. But a pause in the anger is like a vacation.
Thanks again,
Steve


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#49908 - 12/03/06 09:52 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
onefastbike Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 84
Loc: Toronto
I find it hard to express what I feel about forgivness.
I am conflicted about it.

I would suggest reading "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu

I think it would give you some insight in to health ways to think and feel about your enemies.

_________________________
Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick once and you suck forever.

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#49909 - 12/03/06 10:28 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Who? Walks around with constant guilt.
I do, you do.

Whose life is in total despair, ours not theirs.

I could probably post 50 lines and not stop, but dont let their hurt turn to anger in you.
Forgive = one thing, and that is, dont blame yourself.

You have to move on from the constant inner battle at something you cannot get to.
Bit like scratching a sore, you could never reach, your mind!

That is forgiveness to me, to know that they will get their own judgement one day, and pay for it another,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#49910 - 12/03/06 10:30 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Steven - if anyone that has been groomed / attacked /abused by a paedophile wishes to waste energy on forgiving them, that is their choice.

It is however not mine and never will be!

I appreciate that everyone has their own opinion on this matter, and I take no offence at those stated above.

If I said that I forgave the paedophile that has screwed up so much of my life, it would be a total lie. I don't believe that I will suffer more by not forgiving - I much prefer to forgive myself, because I am worth it, he is not!

Why should I forgive someone who I took to court earlier this year for events that took place in 1969. Why should I forgive someone that when confonted by the police with my complaints in 2004, denied those complaints? Why should I forgive someone that first groomed and abused me in 1969, then perpetuated that abuse in 2004 by refusing to admit his crimes? Why should I forgive someone who made me wait another 17 months before achieving a poor substitute for justice in the courts? Why should I forgive someone who groomed and abused others both before and after myself? Why should I forgive someone who was still showing signs of the same behaviour 35 years after he abused me?

Forgive him? No way in hell! I'd much rather spend my time and energy supporting others that require it?

I am waiting for the day that the bastard dies - I will go to his funeral just to make sure he is dead! I will tell anyone that asks me why I am there.

I don't carry hate around with me all the time - I'm not some fermenting pit of sulphorous revenge. If the paedophile that abused me is human??? Why did he show myself and many others no humanity? I understand that some will wish to forgive an abuser, but a mistake is 'a one off situation' that you learn from! Like when you are a child, and you get stung by a nettle - you don't go looking for more nettles to sting you again. If a paedophile abuses only once, and realises that what they did is wrong and seeks atonement for that act, then maybe it is forgiveable! If a paedophile has a 'modus operandi', and sytematically grooms / abuses / attacks children. then it is not forgiveness they deserve. I believe that they have stolen the lives of many children, and should subsequently be denied the right to a life themselves!

So sorry, I am from the flog them and hang them brigade! I make no apology for that!

By the way - the courts do not deliver 'real justice' in the UK. They are too politically correct at the moment, and certainly have little understanding of the damage done by paedophiles!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#49911 - 12/03/06 10:48 PM Re: FORGIVE????????
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rick, please dont get angry at my post, it was not meant to hurt.
If you read it properly, it says forgive yourself!

I think I had the same reaction to the topic heading.

Right?,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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