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#49555 - 03/01/03 01:56 AM is suicide really all that bad?
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern Ohio
Is suicide really all that bad, of a choice. Oh, I hear the religious ones screeming at me now.
As shocked as I was at gunnar's last post, I can't condemn the man for trying. Someone in chat said its, "not stopping the abuse, its giving up." It's easy to say it, so very different Living it. Was living thru that HELL a better way. The daily torture of mind and body with no hope, (or prayer), of escape. I wasn't even aware of the concept of suicide (or that I could kill him) as a kid, too bad really.
Why dont I do it now ? Because I am not living in the abuse, and I dont want to hurt those that care about me. But I sure came close to it a year ago. So close. I still understand the pull of suicide...

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#49556 - 03/01/03 03:14 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
I still understand the pull of suicide too blacken.


Once that choice is acted upon to its completion, there are no other choices. Just knowing that became a deterent for me, what if it was a mistake. Knowing I could end the pain, that I had a choice, helped me to hang on a little longer. Suicidal thoughts comforted me in a very sad way.

While driving the thought of just letting go of the steering wheel at 70 miles an hour and it could all be over. No more pain.

I ignored the possibility that I could live through it with permanent brain damage or be paralized from the neck down.

I entertained thoughts of suicide for several years, but I told no one. In my head I was always exploring methods for doing it.

By not commiting suicide on a particular night I eventually came to experience some days that weren't half bad. It was much like the song says"help Me Make It Through the Night,"and "The Darkest Hour Is Just Before Dawn." I found that second saying ever soo true on sleepless nights. The next day wasn't as oppressively tough to endure. After experiencing this many, many, many times, hanging on became a little easier.

As I've said in Lloydy's "How Long" survey post, a book by John Bradshaw titled "Healing the Shame That Binds You,"helped to turn my life around. It differentiates between guilt and shame. Guilt is about a mistake I made, or something I've done wrong. Shame is about - I am a mistake, my very being is a great error.

Part of suicidal thoughts were about finding relief for the never ending agony. Part of my suicidal thoughts were about murdurous rage. Suicide is self murder.
The murderous rage could not be at my "loving" mother, what kind of ungrateful son would I be. It had to go somewhere so I joined everyone else in my family who tried to destroy any self worth i should have had.

I swallowed a three months supply of maximum strength anti-depressants (Elevil) in my murderous rage after I walked out on a conjoint session with my wife and my therapists.

I drove to a nearby park, and waited for death.

When The medication began to get into my system I started to feel better and I couldn't remember why I was so rageful, so I turned myself in to my therapist. The little blue pills bounced all over the place on the ER floor. I was soon unconscious.

It is now 27 years later. I have come to experience life as prescious. I have come to claim a life for myself. Suicidal thoughts were about what they taught me about myself. I know now they were so very wrong.


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#49557 - 03/01/03 10:12 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
RJD, thanks you so much for sharing your journey from despair to hope and belief in a better future. This is really helpful.

It is good that after your meds began to work you could still get to the ER. I suspect some want to do that, but decide too late.

Congratulations! It took courage to go through all that and it takes courage to tell it. But please do know that you have helped us a great deal by telling us that it is worth putting up a fight for life.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#49558 - 03/01/03 12:11 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Blacken....i appreciate your post because once again in my life i am seriously considering suicide....i first tried when i was 15, but nobody knew...a bottle of aspirin will not do the trick.....guess my last serious attempt was in may 2001 when i took heart pills and slit my wrists with razor blades, guess i wanted help since i drove to a payphone and called the crisis line, i went to a payphone because i did not think they could trace the call... though i think i just wanted to talk to somebody while i fell asleep....unfortunately a bunch of police and an ambulance showed up....i was so mentally determined to accomplish what i've known i need to do for such a long time....it is hard to muster the courage to do it.....i was very close in december, i went to a gun shop to buy a gun....unfortunately i was flagged and had to wait three days....i let that fact slip during a therapy session, maybe sub-consciously i do not want to die, and ended up back in the hospital.....but here i am again, so needing to end the pain and self-loathing....how do you ever get over being abused????? especially when bad things started when i was so young (2-3) and lasted so long (until i was 15), i had so effectively blocked those bad things from my memory for so long, but now the dreams and flashbacks are unbearable, i just cannot endure much more.....the anti-depressants, i had such hope in, do not seem to be working and i'm tired of trying different pills.....pills will never feel the void inside of me, unless they put me into a permanent sleep with no more nighmares of being raped....

you say you did not do it because it would hurt your family.....i think i used to try to do it to make my family love me, if not in life, in death.....but at this point in my life i no longer care about my family, it has taken me alot to get to this point, but my wonderful mother did me a great service when in may 2001, after i had slit my wrists and was still hospitalized, decided to vacation in las vegas with my sister....at that point, i realized she was always going to be incapable of caring about me and i had to severe ties with them.....that point was driven home when several days later i told her of the abuse and her response was well, i'll call your uncle and ask him....that was the final straw, i cannot allow myself to care about such a person any longer.....so you see, family is no longer a barrier or even a consideration for me.....let her have her pitiful funeral for me where she can act like the suffering victim and garner all of the attention she so craves.....i do not give a damn......

yes, i have fears of becoming a living vegtable...but in so many ways i already am that....my therapist retorts when i talk about suicide," you do not know what is on the other side, you might suffer more and not be able to do anything about the pain. At least here you can try to make the pain go away".......sad thing is, it never does go away, it just gets worse....so that argument really holds no validity for me.....

people say suicide lets the perpetrators win.....this is not a contest.....i do not give a damn about who wins, i just need things to end.....

maybe soon i will be courageous and complete the act........michael


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#49559 - 03/01/03 12:45 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
al Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 143
Loc: canada
Michael please I beg you don't go down that road. Please find someone to talk to. i have done the things you've done, tried those things to. but they are not the answer, life is the answer, a chance to get past the hurt the pain the abuse. While i was laying in bed marc sat beside me while he waited for the results of the cat scan. I tried to tell him but couldnt i already knew what the answer would be and i couldn't even tell him. now i have to live with this forever, the damage i caused myself. please stay with us and keep talking

_________________________
Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music. Mark Kleiman

Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. Winston Churchill

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#49560 - 03/01/03 01:45 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern Ohio
I joined this Forum back in August of 2001. There has been a lot of change since then.
I was extreamly angry back then. The wounds of renewed memory were fresh and stung greatly.
My mood here on this Forum is quite fickle. One post might be hopeful, the next dreadful. I think because I listen, and the words of others invoke or release inner feelings that have been waiting (perhaps for decades) to be released. I am far more open here, than anywhere else in my life.

RJD, Your responce is right on the mark for me. It rung true in my heart and I appriciate U taking the time to write it.

michaelb, I am not currently, actively seaking my own death. BUT! I am certainly NOT happy. I have moments of joy. I have days of "ok'ness". But I really dont know what Happiness is, on an emotional level.
I, in my work, have had to talk to kids about & out of suicide. And at times I have felt such the Hipocrate. I felt I was telling lies.
I so much want to not feel this dread that still holds on to the shirt tails of my soul. Holding me back from allowing myself to risk being intimate, to strive to reach my true potentials.

You said, "people say suicide lets the perpetrators win.....this is not a contest.....i do not give a damn about who wins, i just need things to end.....". I hate that F*cking comment too. And I do agree with your feelings on this. That one comment burns me up. Its so Damn sinical and judgemental. To me, that truely insensitive comment means; 'If you end your life, your a loser, your a weak piece of shit.'
It validates the power of the perp and condenms the victim! I hope people stop using it.
Am I required to dedicate my whole F*cked up life to fighting an ENDLESS battle that I don't see anyone ever winning? The idea of 'winning over SA' could be a thread all to its self.

But there are also a great number here in the forum, chat and elsewhere in the world that continue on. They keep fighting the fight.
I have heard that success is measured by the simple act of ATTEMPTING, day after day, ie, fighting the fight; continueing the struggle; feeling the pain and sharing; speaking your mind and heart; laughing and crying...
And for me, posting here, is part of my fight. And I don't always get my point across, or I convey the wrong idea than what I meant. Or I was in a bad (negative) mood when I wrote it.

I find it difficult to convey meanings by simply writing it. Speech is so much more effective. With its tones, volume and inflections, its so much more accurate.

In not even knowing gunnar personally, but just reading his posts, has invoked deep and mostly painful memories. It awoke a sleeping lion in me. I feel quite strange. It is going to take me some time (how long?)to process this all. And in the mean time, I may be an Ass at times. Please forgive the transgrations.

Please michaelb, keep fighting the fight. Its not a contest, but U have a right to seek happiness. I thought my therapist was an idiot when he said, "It will get less bad over time".
It did get 'Less bad', its still not good either.
But perhaps it will, some day....
Blacken...

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#49561 - 03/01/03 01:48 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern Ohio
somehow it posted the same thing tiwce

(I took it off, Lloydy )

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#49562 - 03/01/03 03:04 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Suicide is something that's affected me deeply. I've known too many people who've chosen this path at one time or another.

For me it was an unplanned and instant reaction to the shame of acting out, a product of the confusion I felt after the event.
It was probably half hearted as well, or maybe the despair set in when I couldn't find a length of hose to fit my Landcruiser's big exhaust pipe. But for whatever reason, I gave up the attempt very easily.
To go on and do it some other way would have been possible I know, but I think the realization that I was so fucking useless I couldn't even do that simple thing sent me into a level of despair where the effort to do something right became impossible - if that makes sense ?

I'm one of those that believe that the perp's win if we kill ourselves, I lost my childhood friend Mick like that. He was abused at the same school and took his life back at the school grounds many years later.
He lost everything, my only consolation is knowing that his perp ( different to mine ) threw himself off a bridge and killed himself a long time before Mick.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#49563 - 03/01/03 03:58 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
___________
CAUTION
___________

Here again, unknown to them while growing up, my daughters have been my teachers.

I learned on an intellectual level that all children need unconditional positive regard.

Even adults need that, but we hopefully have the skills to cope when we don't get that positive regard.

To have that skill as an adult, we have to have recieved unconditional positive regard as children.

I didn't recieve that as a child, but there is a saying in recovery circles to,"Fake it, till you make it." I was serious about wanting the best for my kids. Even though I knew down deep in my soul that I was shit, I could still see how precious they were. The shit, I came to believe I was, covered and hid the precious child I was born

My daughters have grown now. Their unconditional positive self-regard has brought them into full bloom in reaching their potential as adults. Oh, they have their self doubts, but they take risks that earn the respect of the people they gather into their lives and the people they work with. They dare to face life on it's own terms. I burst with pride just thinking about them.

The darker side of seeing them flower is how it glaringly illuminates... what I didn't get.

So now I've come to understand I have to re-write the legacy of what my family did to me, and parent the little boy in me at least like I parented my daughters. I parented them with patience, forgiveness, understanding and unconditional love....and joy.

If I had an adopted son who had had the experiences I've had, I would listen to his story of agony until he had healed enough that he no longer needed to tell me one more time. (The tears are puddling again for that young man whose heart was torn every which way but loose.)

If he then needs to start his story all over from scratch at some other time, I will lovingly listen and, no doubt, I will cry with him again. I would do this because, I especially, know that kind of pain.

It is a joy to care for him that way as it was a joy to be the loving father to my daughters.

When suicide again becomes an option for him, I will take him to someone who can help. When he is that rageful, I cannot take care of him on my own. I need to seek outside help.


There is another book by John Bradshaw titled, "Homecoming." In the book there are some very powerful exercises. I think they work better in a gruop. At the time I was in a men's support group with survivors of various kinds of childhood trauma. It was a self led group of men with no facilitator though the men understood well the need for safety. These were men seasoned in their recovery work.

I recorded my own voice reading the passages from the exercises in the book. Especially for me, it was powerful hearing my adult voice talking to little Bobby, taking him by the hand and going with him into the house he grew up in. I walked him up to my mother , father, and big brother and told them Bobby will not be coming back home because they did not know how to take care of him. I told them I would be taking care of him from now on.

With that, Bobby and I left together, hand in hand.

Bobby was in terror because of my history with him, but he sensed where my heart was and he was comforted with that. His eyes were filled with tears, he now had somebody to take better care of him.

I had some work to do to be able to live up to my commitment to him.


I ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO NOT DO THESE EXERCISES ALONE.


Surround yourself with people who can do that kind of work on their own personal issues. THEY CANNOT FIX ME. All they can do is listen and share their stories of pain or joy. That is also all I can do for them


The little boy in me already feels like his soul was murdered, as long as there is a murderous threat to his physical body he cannot feel the safety it requires to do the healing work on this terribly, terribly wounded soul of his.


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#49564 - 03/01/03 04:50 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
One thing we must always remember is that there are alternatives to suicide.

None of them are easy, many will be short term, but none will be as final as suicide.

What we MUST do is talk.
I know that when we're in the depths of despair that sounds easy. Believe me I know it aint easy.
But we have to do it, we owe it to ourselves and those we love.

If we talk to someone we will find out that people do care about us, would you say to someone "go ahead, do it" No, of course you wouldn't, it's inbuilt into all of us to help someone in distress.
I say that even in the face of the evidence of all the abuse we've known between us. We've know some truly evil people but to say that takes evil into unknown levels.

Some people are isolated, have no family or loved ones. But there are people out there who care.
We care, the Samaritans are on the end of a 'phone, as are many other people who care. A stranger on the street will care, doctors care, a cab driver will take you to an emergency room rather than a high bridge.
All we have to do is tell someone, it's the first and strongest alternative.

Talking is the best weapon we have.

RJD, thanks for your reply there, it's stunning.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#49565 - 03/01/03 05:16 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
This has been a difficult thread to read--but in the midst of such longing for things to be different than there are and were, there is hope and determination.

It is really difficult for someone who is past 30 years or so. to accept that his childhood and adolescence were abnormal to say the least, AND that we can't redo it. RJD, Bob, I think it was you who wrote the moving story of taking little Bobby by the hand and into the house he grew up in, to tell his family you would be taking care of him now.

That is a profound picture for me. I visualized is as I read it and it was a "shouting moment" a one of my African Ameerican ladies used to tell me. Thanks.

Please guys, do not think I am saying something here that I am not. But, I will tell you of a time in therapy when I was so angered at my therapist that I could have taken his degrees and certificates off the wall and thrown them out the window.

I was talking to him about these very thoughs, lost childhood, feeling abanoned, unloved etc. I think this happened just in the past decade so this is after 25 to 30 years of therapy off and on. Mostly on.

He looked me in the eye and asked:" Bob, what are you getting out of all that?" I did not understand the questions. So he explained that I must be getting something that I feel I need out of feeling so sorry for myself and my life, and holding on to that with all my might. Damn him, was my immediate thought.

This was one of the most emotionally conflicted times in my life. I was filled with anger, hurt, shame, betrayed, challenged and finally embarassed and kind of hard on myself for not seeing the dynamic earlier.

I could not believe he could be so cruel to say such a thing--but gradually, as he talked and we talked, I saw a point. Until I could get over holding on to my "victimhood" I could not move on.

Sure wish there was a cheery ending. But the truth is, that I still feel sad, angry and cheated, at least at times. I grieve over a past I did not have and decisions I made without ever experiencing the norm for life as a young man. But, I am getting better, and I do ask myself that question a lot. I ask myself what I am getting out of it and of course the answer is the same, lots of sadness and some people giving me a little sympathy, which in fact I can admit, I want some times.

Peace to us all.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#49566 - 03/01/03 10:18 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Bitter pills for me to swallow:
"You're just feeling sorry for yourself." the expression lacks soul to me, and I have often heard it used as a put-down.
"What is this getting you?" I've even seen that used as a put-down, but I also have heard it as a good question.

I'm with you all the way here Bob.

"You're just feeling sorry for yourself."---The good news and the bad news of "getting better" then attempting suicide was that My rage was finally getting to the surface. That was the healthy part of coming out of a catatonic depression.

The downside and unhealthy part of attempting suicide was that I dumped on the first support system I've ever had: my theripist, my wife, and myself. The three of us recieved all of the pent-up impotent-turned-potent rage of the terribly wounded boy/man in me. He wanted someone else to feel what I could only try to numb out. In retrospect, they represented my architypal mother, and the kind of care I was accustomed to.

Another vulnerable bystander was my 4 y.o. daughter, who was not yet aware of what was going on,though she was not unaffected by the drama.

I lived and breathed suicidal thoughts. They were how I got through the day.

What they got me was relief with the thought that I could opt out of the pain at any time. But what they also got me was to reinforce how I felt about myself as a sick fcker and deserved to be continuously tortured and threatened with death that way. I complained about it. but I also wallowed in it.

Then one day the question came to my attention,"What would life be like without all this self-loathing. ...Now there was a scary thought...

Self -loathing was part of my identity. I had learned to do it so consistantly that I knew no other way. Could I 'choose' not to do that anymore? Since when did I have this choice?

The key for me was when I began to tell my story over and over again and the secret that I should "never tell anyone, because they won't understand," was not a secret anymore, and it gradually released it's hold on me. (over several years.[ages 30-40)

I still pick up a hammer and instinctually beat myself with it, but now I catch myself and can stop sooner than I used to. (some of you might remember the post under "I hate wasps" when I did that quite litterally.)

Choices are now visible to me that were impossible for me to see even a few years ago.

Going to grad school 3 yrs ago was a step into my light that was terrifying to me. Beating up on myself was a way of life. Stopping that behavior and daring to think that I deserved to be able to get a masters like anyone else who's ever gotten a masters before in history was so presumptuous of me. Surely the school made a mistake when they decided to accept me.

I litterally had to say "stop that Bob" on a regular basis for the past two years. I'm on the other side of the experience now, and it is still a crisis for me even though I've graduated.

I had to understand what I learned as a child. Then I had to unlearn what I learned. Then I had to teach myself a new way to live life.

I am envious of those who learned the right way from the start. .


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#49567 - 03/02/03 01:38 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
suicide was a big issue for me before new years, 2003. Until...

My cousin, was kicked out by his second wife, with no real contact with his children by his first wife, nor his daughter by his second wife. He thought his pain would never end. I don't think he was a survivor of SA, but he sure was in alot of pain. Wrote his ex and his wife, and his kids letters. Mailed em. Shot him self dead on new years eve.

He said in his letters that if he could not be with his wife and kids, he could not be here at all.

I went to the funeral. This is the spooky part.

He spoke to me, at the memorial service at the Firefighters Memorial (he was a volunteer Firefighter) Almost like in a dream, but I was wide awake. "Look at my mother, my father, my wife, my ex wife, my son, my daughters. (they were sobbing in so much pain as we all were) I could not deal with my pain, so I thought I could get rid of it all by ending my life. I was wrong. All I did was stop my own pain, and gave it all to those whom I love the most here on earth. Marc, don't ever think what I did was the easy or correct thing to do. It solved nothing, my family bears my pain, and I carry more pain in this place than I did on earth..." And he was gone.

I feel pain, suffering, sadness, anger, rage all those things we as SA survivors feel. But it took my cousin's suicide (and speaking with brothers like Dan in NE, Chey-WY, Lightfang, the Dean )to make me realize that the end is not the answer.

orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#49568 - 03/02/03 07:21 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
woz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Australia
i would like to share this on your current topic if i may,

at 43 married with 4 young adult/teenagers and as a survivor
i know feel my own hurt pain and saddness that seems endless, so many times has driven me to the point where, yep to die would seem the best choice.

but then creator who whispers in one ear, woz then who will do the heart work? while i whisper in the other countering creator, who cares?

my wife and children care i know they do, yes they dont tell me as often as the little boy inside wants to hear it.

but i know that they do and i know that the courage i have been shown by them to me by loving me in spite of my great efforts at keeping them away from my heart and fealings.

so to honour them i will do the heart work, for me, my wife my children, my creator, my friends

i can not change that which is past and the pain and the saddness will not change the fact that my protectors as a child, teenager, and young man all failed in there job.

but i can stand with courage because i have found one who loves me in spite of me.

me

but just a little better yet 5 others,( wife daughter son son daughter) then before i knew it a few more again, so i now know the whole world may not love me, but just one is enough and my life is showing me that i am not standing alone anymore.

so dont have to listen to me, when i say you are woth standing for the fight of your life, just listen within, you will here you the real you cause like me you are the most single important loveing being the your creator has ever made, and you are worth the fight.

do i ever think of the what if's yes every day still, but a little boy tells me i'm worth standing up for.

listen to your chld within they know that your worth it to.

and though i may not know you yet, i think that you are too.

blessings

_________________________
as in all things we are all connected.
Ho, Mitakaye Oyasin

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#49569 - 03/02/03 02:05 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
A person would have to be blind and deaf not to see enormous courage here. Orodo, your cousin was so right. WOZ you put the struggle so well. RJD Bob, you always have a healthy word to speak.

Physical pain has driven me to think that I wanted life to end, as much as has the SA pain. But I always know that what I really want is to stop the pain. So I drive my physicians a little nuts by telling them that the pain has got to lessen, if it can't stop.

Pain sucks. Hope is awesome. The hope and experience of the past in getting rid of some of the pain, sure helps me want to see a long future, as long as I can make it be.

Peace to you guys and thanks for sharing your agony--I feel compassion for all of you. But I also get strength through it all. It is invaluable to me.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#49570 - 03/02/03 05:35 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Welcome WOZ and thanks for your good words.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#49571 - 03/03/03 03:23 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
What do I think? I do think that taking your own life is letting your abusier win. If you take your life couse of your sa you are still letting them control you. I do think that taking your own life is giving up on your self. You are worth so much to this world and your self.


Love, Nathan


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#49572 - 03/03/03 09:30 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Nathan: You are so so right. I know what you are talking about. My perps hotwired me to keep silent etc, etc. And I did. The permanancy of suicide guarantees silence forever; their ultimate victory over us. And the CANNOT and MUST not win. Last Spring was a very scary time for me. I had been in therapy for about 5-6 years and things were going to straight to hell. One evening I was going inline skating at the rink where I teach. I took a tremendous amount of medications (Effexor and Welbrutin) and lfet the rink and drove down to Lake Ontario. I piled my clothes on the shoreline and headed into the lake fuly intending to swim umtil fatigue and the cold helped me suceed. I was about 50 yards from shore when I heard a voice "PLease dont do this". I looked back at the shoreline and saw a young man walking his dog. I went back to shore intending to tell this young man why I was doing what I was doing. When I got ashore there was no one there. I was really spooked. Got dressed and sat in my car with the heater on for about 1 hour. When I got home the poiice were waiting for me. My friends at the rink had called my wife and daughter and they had frantically looked for me before enlisting the aid of the police. They were kind and gentle with me. I completely broke down and one officer, older guy, held me while I shook and told me to let it all out. This was the first time an authority figure had done this. My wife and daughter were frantic with relief.
What this is all leading to is that I had never felt so much love right then from my family. It was a love that, no matter what, I had worth. Quite a relevation. So for me personally, suicide is not an option for dealing with SA.

RJD you wrote:The little boy in me already feels like his soul was murdered. I felt that way for most of my adult life. Ime 62 now. What I believe now is that my sould was not murdered nor my childhood stolen. Just locked up by my perps. They gave me the key to the jail and I did a very good job of guarding the door. Now I an opening that door and allowing some of the light and joy of living in there. It is not easy nor do I expect it to be. But IT IS ONE HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE I HAVE EVER DONE. I DONT WANT TO JUST SURVIVE I WANT TO LIVE AND SEE JOY AROUND ME AND WITHIN ME.
For those of you that do not have close family or friends we are all here for you, each and everyone of us.
Nuff Said

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#49573 - 03/03/03 11:08 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Amen mikechurch...

Thrive my fellow traveler...and peace be with you...

I have often admired the beautiful work you do and the wisdom you speak..


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#49574 - 03/03/03 11:11 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Yes, I too have felt the pull of suicide. It almost pulled me off a mountain once.

But I also know that suicide is not an option, it is the end of all options.

Had I thrown myself off that mountain when I was 17, I wouldn't be here talking about the "option" of suicide. I wouldn't be here with this fine group of men opening their hearts to one another,
offering & receiving support & life.

Thanks to you all. I'm glad you're all here.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#49575 - 03/03/03 11:26 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
PeteT Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 28
Loc: Michigan
My exsistence today depends on my desire to be free. Most of my life I have felt like a loser. It seem that everything I did, everything I said, and everything I tried to do, failed me. I knew not about happiness for there was none in my soul,only numbness,pain,and sorrow.
My wife of 26 years kept asking "What is wrong with you," and I said nothing. My silence was my nightmare. I ached of the pain inside because I could not let the truth be knowen. My reason for being was to make others happy , not myself, until I almost lost it all.
At that point I had nothing to lose, and I released my secret. I had 35 years of pain lock up that started to flow out. Should I take pills, or run into the back of that semi-truck, or maybe a bullet to the head would take the pain away.
I needed to be held, I needed to be secure. I cried out, but the pain did not go away. I pushed and the pain came back. I pushed harder but it kept coming back. I screamed but it still came back.
I'm still crying, pushing and screaming that pain away and it keeps coming back but each time it gets just a little bit easier. Slowly, ever so slowly I am filling that void with happiness.
Is SA about winning or losing? No, I believe it's about regaing the freedom that was stolen from me. Will I ever be happy? Will I ever be free? I'm damn well going to try. I deserve it. I believe we all do!

_________________________
Pete

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#49576 - 03/03/03 12:03 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Pete, it sounds to me like you're well on your way to freedom, or in the process of being free, already. WTG & welcome to this brotherhood of male survivors!

Winning or losing, freedom or bondage, survivor or victim. For me, recovery is about the recovery of my true self, buried under the rubble of SA, it's about discovering & becoming the real me.

Have to be alive to do that.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#49577 - 03/03/03 12:42 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
michaelb.....You are in the throes of an epic battle. It is a battle of life and death consequences.

We, here, know that pain.

My mother too was all consumed with her own needs. She took me to bed with her because she was cold and lonely. In her sick needyness she was clueless as to what she was doing to me.

Her behavior did not meet her own standards so she could not consciously acknowledge what she was doing to me.

on an unconscious level she was doing to me what she wanted to do to her own father and grandfather who both hurt her so bad.

Deep in her gut she wanted to destroy them both for what they did to her.

She could not.

I was the closest one she could destroy and get away with it, smiling. She managed to do it "lovingly" so she could pretend to herself that she was doing nothing wrong.

she was acting out her own victimization, which is still no excuse. It was not her father or grandfather doing it to me,... it was she.


Keep talking my brother michaelb. Keep your rage here on the table. You show great courage bringing it here and sharing it. It is welcome here.

When I was in the throes of my own epic battle, "not letting my perpetrators win," did sound like a contest that was among many that I was doomed to lose. I think another way to say it is I'm not going to treat myself like my mother taught me to treat myself, no one deserves that... not even me.

Please take this as an invitation to life. You do not deserve to die. No one here deserves death by murder.

It ain't easy but time and talking can heal.

What you are experiencing now is hell, but as is said in 12-step survivors groups, "if any one of us can heal, then so can all of us."

I wish for you the peace you so desperately seek.


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#49578 - 03/03/03 12:56 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
Beautiful heartfelt words PeteT


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#49579 - 03/03/03 12:56 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Pete
Welcome to MS, and your first post here is an astonishing one. Your story mirrors mine and so many others here.

This whole topic is obviously touching a lot of people deeply. I hope we all benefit from it because it's often an unspoken taboo. So many people refuse to discuss suicide, some wont use that word, and they hope the whole thing will go away.

It wont go away, there's always going to be someone who feels that the suffering they are enduring has no end and suicide is the way out.
I have to say it isn't.
I'm enjoying my life now, ok it's not perfect but how many 'normal' people have prfect lives. None that I know. So I'll accept the hard work, the pain of therapy and the residual effects I still have in exchange for my life today.


Quote:
My wife and daughter were frantic with relief.
What this is all leading to is that I had never felt so much love right then from my family. It was a love that, no matter what, I had worth. Quite a relevation.
Mike wrote this and I know that feeling, I know it from BOTH sides. Like Mike I've been astounded by my wife's reaction, and I've also felt the sheer panic and confusion when my brother survived a suicide attempt. We're on different sides of the Atlantic, but I felt our emotions down a phone line. In the months that followed until we did met up I know we both risked short circuiting our keyboards to floods of tears as we emailed.

We have to think about those that would be left behind, we have no right to be so selfish as to cause them so much pain for a start. Although many people might disagree with that.

The most important thing is to recognise that the people surrounding us are there for a reason, they love us, they like us. They might be blood relatives or someone we chat to at the store. Whoever they are they care, if they really, truly didn't care they would have dissapeared long ago.
And if they care, they'll help in whatever way they can. It's human nature.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#49580 - 03/03/03 01:55 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
My wife was furious when I was suicidal (at least 3 attempts) and could not be supportive. I had the feeling she was impatiently tapping her foot when she still said two years later, "When are you going to be done with this THERAPY THING.

What I now understand is that I had attempted to abandon her just like her just like her alchoholic dad did emotionally. I became all men to her.

It is understandable that because I had figuratively slapped her in the face, she wanted to figuratively slap back.

It has been 33 yrs together and for several years I have seen how I just ditched the love she had for me back then. I can now understand why I had to do it, but that is not an excuse now either.

We all have our frailties.


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#49581 - 03/03/03 05:07 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
I think another way to say it is I'm not going to treat myself like my mother taught me to treat myself, no one deserves that... not even me.
RJD, little bro, those are powerful words. As you know, I could have pretty much written these words and that entire post of yours myself, for me. Maybe we were separated at birth or something?... ;\)

Quote:
I'm enjoying my life now, ok it's not perfect but how many 'normal' people have prfect lives. None that I know. So I'll accept the hard work, the pain of therapy and the residual effects I still have in exchange for my life today.
Me too, Dave! And just what in the world is a "normal" person anyway, right?! Frankly, I think
"normalcy" is highly overrated!

\:D
Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#49582 - 03/04/03 12:42 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
ecb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 205
Do I feel the pull of suicide? Hell yes. Nearly daily, unless my day is soooo busy that I have absolutly no time to think about anything except what I have to get done/am doing that day, and then go to bed so exhausted I fall asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow.

Does my perp win if I kill myself? I don't know. I just want it all to stop. I tried once when I was 15 or 16. I had finally realized what had been done to me, it all came back with crystal clarity. That coupled with the fact that my mother was living with a verbally and emotionally abusive alcoholic was just too much. Fortunately, I'm a big guy, and the hooks in the celing of my house are not very strong. \:\)

Sometimes, I wonder "what the hell was I thinking?" Other times, I just wish the hook was stronger.

So far the only thing that keeps me from carrying out my suicidal thoughts is the knowledge that without me, my mother would be utterly devistated. I stay alive for her. I don't know what I'll do when she dies. Hopefully by confronting all this within myself by then I'll have another reason. Or better yet... it won't even be a consideration.

Thanks for listening all.

Eric


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#49583 - 03/04/03 10:50 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
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_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#49584 - 03/04/03 10:57 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
I don't know what I'll do when she dies. Hopefully by confronting all this within myself by then I'll have another reason. Or better yet... it won't even be a consideration.
Eric, I'm betting on "it won't even be a consideration."

And I'm glad the hook wasn't stronger! \:\)

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#49585 - 03/04/03 04:51 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Is suicide really all that bad?

I don't know that I can put a value of good or bad on something like this. I certainly don't view the act as something 'bad', or the person who commits suicide as 'bad', nor do I view them as good either. In many ways I can understand the extreme despair that must have led to their decision, having lived and experienced similar despair myself. What I am left with, in terms of characterizing suicide, is the word sadness. Sadness for the situation, sadness that the world could leave an individual so alone and desperate, sadness at unfulfilled promise, sadness that there is so much suffering ...and not in some far off place, but sometimes right next door.

I have a problem with the concept that perpetrators win when one of their victims commits suicide. I don't think perpetrators are ever winners. Society failed the victim. We have to become a better, more aware, more nurturing society. We have to look after our children better. Peace, Andrew


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#49586 - 03/04/03 06:19 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
mattandrew Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 376
Loc: Florida
Is Suicide really all that bad,i personally do not think so after what i have experienced and lived thru not just the SA by a SXO during my growing up years as a child.

Suicide for some may not be the answer nor would it be accepted in their family, let alone their friends too.I personally think suicide may be the answer to a problem that will forever be something that someone may have to live with due to the abuse they sustained in their youth and will forever have to live with it for the remainder of their life.

Years ago i tried suicide and was not able to fully take my life.You see i am one who has gone thru the SA throughout my youth, i survived the worst of abuse that a person could have gone thru.You might sit there right now and say but you are a survivor maybe but,the way i now look at suicide is if a person such as gunnar was faced with the rest of his life with a disease that would eventually take his life then i could understand why a person would want to end their suffering and years of pain.

Gunnar,was a great person who went thru a lot in his life and was suffering but did not let on to it as he helped those in need all the way to the end of his life,Gunnar was a true survivor in every sense of the word and meaning but he was suffering a lot and he is in a better place where ever that may be,he is now with his maker and is no longer suffering in his body.

Suicide is not all that bad,it gives an out for a person that may be suffering and needs to end the pain they are not getting relief from.Suicide if it is ended by the person suffering is not murder,it is an option that must be sought out if the suffering will not end nor will it be relieved thru other means such as therapy or thru doctors.

Therapy and doctors are not the end all be all in this world even though everyone makes it out to be that way however, therapy and doctors can help in certain situations if the person wanting to end their life really wants to reach out for help and the doctors and therapists can help the person then there may be another option besides the end of life.

I understand it quite well now after the last couple of months of my life,i have comptiplated ending life as i know it due to no relief of pain and knowing who caused the damage to my physical body and now forever having to live with it,if i can't get the relief i seek and if therapy will not help anymore then the only other option is to end the physical suffering of my life.

I would not end my life to hurt others such as family or what is left of my family and then my friends but,rather i would end the suffering that cannot be touched with mans inventions and therapy and medications.This would be the right option not only to end the suffering but to end the financial strain that will go on thru the rest of my life due to the physical.Now am i saying i am at that point right now i really do not think so as i am seeking out the help needed to give my life the relief i seek to make the quality of life better for me to continue living but, should that not work for me then the other option may come into action not only for myself but also to lighten the burden on my family if i can no longer take care of myself or will have to be taken care of by others and family members.


I have chosen not to allow my family to have to be burdened with me if it gets to this point then i will consider the option of relief to be in a better place.So please understand what i am saying here my life as i know it right now is not going to end however if it gets to the point of what i have shared then i may seek out the relief needed otherwise consider me still a survivor and still trying to let myself win the fight against SA and my SXO who caused the damage to me.

_________________________
M.A.N. ,
Boy who was trapped in society's nightmare & moving on thru healing & accountability.

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#49587 - 03/04/03 06:32 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I have been suicidal in my life too. Especially when I was 19 till about 26. I remember at one point it was not a matter of if I would commit suicide but when and how. At my lowest point I was about 23 and had gotten into 3 car accidents in a very short period of time. I had recently confided to my mother that I didn't think I could keep living. After I wrecked her Maxima I came home to try to tell her. She interupted me by saying "If you crashed my car you might as well just kill yourself!" After that I just didn't kill myself out of spite for her. It kept me alive until I found a reason to keep trying. After I bought a new car and showed all my friends I crashed it, and I was so depressed I walked home fouteen miles from the accident site, just out of self hatred. My brother who was raped at cub scout camp drove his car into a tree going 60 mph, but lived.

Despair is the tough part. Feeling like there is nothing to live for. I don't have that problem any more, but it was tough when I did. I wish I could convince you there is no reason to despair. There is so much to live for and I think all of our individual lives matter more than we can immagine.

Suffering isn't easy either. I've been thinking lately that my suffering is a good thing. I think the burden I bear is making the world a better place, although I don't think I could possibly explain why. There are a lot of examples of people who suffered for obvious good causes. Like war heros or Martin Luther King. What veteran returning from war isnt happy to show his scars? And who sees those scars and thinks less of him? I can see a lot of scars by reading this thread, and I don't think less of anyone for his scars.

It didn't make sense to me when I first heard it, but if we offer up our pain and suffering God can use it for good. I couldn't explain why in a million years. I say you have a lot to give and in the end if you persevere you will not be ashamed of your scars. Also, my oppinion is that if anyone who claims to be religious and screams at you about this, than they are not what they claim to be.

<----my $0.02 on the topic

Mo Healing


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#49588 - 03/04/03 06:37 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
mattandrew,
Having followed your postings for the past few months, I am in no doubt as to your ability to battle through any adversity. You have shown that for every problem there is an opportunity for a solution. You have suffered mattandrew, but you have managed to navigate the mine fields and help others in this forum. I am sure if you continue to focus on helping your fellow SA survivors, you will reap the benefits of your generous spirit.
Peace, Andrew


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#49589 - 03/04/03 08:00 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I find the two posts from Matt and Les absolutly incredible, in most respects they're offering an opposite opinion and rationale about this very emotive subject, but they have so much in common as well.

Quote:
Suffering isn't easy either. I've been thinking lately that my suffering is a good thing. I think the burden I bear is making the world a better place, although I don't think I could possibly explain why. There are a lot of examples of people who suffered for obvious good causes.
Les, there are also a lot of examples of people who have suffered for NO good reason as well, and they go on to defy their suffering with a strength we find hard to imagine.

Quote:
So please understand what i am saying here my life as i know it right now is not going to end however if it gets to the point of what i have shared then i may seek out the relief needed otherwise consider me still a survivor and still trying to let myself win the fight against SA and my SXO who caused the damage to me.
Strength such as Matt's.......

Because we are enduring various levels of pain at different times, and we have different psychological make-ups, many of us will feel at times that suicide is an option. But although I can only talk about the pain I felt in my mind and not the actual, physical pain many people feel, I still think that we generally find that glimmer of hope within us that tells us to walk away and have another go at life.
Not always the easy option, but certainly the most rewarding.

On a side note, Matt's post reminded me that Holland is about the only country that has legal euthanasia for the terminally ill.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#49590 - 03/04/03 11:04 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Troy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 12
Loc: West Coast
I think we all need to keep in mind that legal euthanasia for the terminally ill and suicide are two different things. A healthy person taking their own life for whatever reason is different than euthanasia for the terminally ill. I see this as two entirely different subjects.

_________________________
Love in Life...(Troy)

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#49591 - 03/05/03 06:15 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
drunk and have not read replies.......

suicide is the ultiment slap in the face to the peope who care about you.....

your brother in recovery, Brian....


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#49592 - 03/05/03 02:00 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
still 12 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 167
Is suicide really all that bad?

All I can say is what I have been taught. The fact is we don't have the right to take some else's life (self defense excluded). So why should our own life be exempt? Yes, we can be our own worst ememy but at the same time I don't think it give's us the right. I have had 2 relatives and 1 friend commit suicide. There is a vast difference in the feeling surrounding that person's death than someone who died of an illness, accident, or old age. The suicide gives a bad feeling, like something just isn't right. I think the feeling is so different because it really is the wrong way to go. I just don't think we're intended to go that way.
At the risk of sounding cliche, we are all dealt a hand in the beginning. Some get a royal flush, some get 2 pair, and some just get a lousy hand. You have all seen one's that have been dealt that lousy hand turn it into a winner. It can be done. Everyone is different though.
Yes, I have thought of it. I have spoken about it to my wife who nearly did because of severe depression about 13 years ago (along with our children). She is glad that she didn't. I am too. That is an understatement.
I know life can suck. And I also know that it can suck worse for many others.
I still think there is hope.
I can also say that I would be very afraid to try it. I am not sure completely that it would be the end of the suffering. But I can't say that with complete assurance.

Please, no one take offense at anything I said. I am just stating what I was thinking about this subject. I know I can't be in someone else's shoes and feel their pain and know what they are thinking.

The whole thing really is a very lonely and sad process.

Still 12


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#49593 - 03/05/03 11:44 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1213
Loc: Northern Ohio
Resently, someone said to me, (A very wise man at that),....
As long as there's life, there's hope.

I think, and have been thinking, that this just about sums it up. I think that is the bottom line.

Life = Hope

All I've been looking for is Hope.
And there it was/is, right in front of me, Life.

"the answer" to all my issues are not in a quik fix,
but perhaps in time, I'll find that freedom I'm fighting for, that peace I'm searching for.

Life = Hope
Hope = Life

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#49594 - 03/06/03 12:06 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
I have had those thoughts, but I could never act on them. I have gone to sleep hoping I would not wake up. But all that was long ago.

When I open my eyes in the morning I know only one thing for certain; I still have Life.

And as miserable as my coming day may be, and as much as my body and heart may ache, that too is Life. I just don't want to miss what happens next. It could be amazing.

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#49595 - 03/06/03 12:51 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
IS SUICIDE ALL THAT BAD? Powerful posts! Deep, deep searching questions! Many of us have been bombarded by thoughts of suicide...as have I. The pain can get overwhelming...and it has at times. There have been strong pulls at so many times over the years...BUT...I have not attempted suicide because I could not cause even deeper pain to family - wife and three children. If it were only me? I don't think I would consider suicide seriously. Know why? Because I have survived through the deep valleys in order to experience the highs - my son's graduation; my daughters wedding; being able to help male kids and teens to face abuse survival and recovery; I would have missed being able to talk with groups about sexual abuse and ways they can help; I would have missed a thousand beautiful days with my wife and kids because I could not see all these times of sunshine because of the overwhelming feelings of gloom and pain. People used to tell me - One Day At A Time...Things won't be like this forever...Hang on and keep going forward. It was hard to believe them then but I can thank them for encouraging past suicide. I would have missed the great times in life - beautiful times; powerful times; proud times! I still endure pain...the abuse I suffered messed me up for a long time...and I still have scars and memories that bleed at times. Flashbacks..and thoughts...struggles; but I found it worth the work to see the promise of happy, beautiful days ahead that were hidden from my sight..just promises hoped for. I found it worth it!

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#49596 - 03/06/03 09:32 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
at a teen struggling with his sexuality and place in the world-yes i considered suicide. though i wasnt save or a Christian by any means, i believed there was a God, and that suicide was an instant ticket to hell. that theology kept me from any serious attempts. oh i would go to bed praying to be made impotent or not to wake up, but i could never attempt it by my own hand.

the future is an unknown. if i had done something then, i would have missed marriage, healing, children, and all the good things. after abuse i got locked into the negative things in life. looking back there were always good things, i just didnt see them at the time. i have learned to cling to the good things. they are my strength.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#49597 - 03/06/03 10:31 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
By request of Blacken the starter of this thread,
I am going to try to close this thread on a positive note. After this note is posted I will lock the thread.

To honor Blacken's request & the closing of this thread, "please do not post to this issue elsewhere, although concerns may be communicated directly to a Moderator by Private Mail" if that is necessary.

Please review Forum Guidelines at the link on the top of this page.

Now, to try to put "closure" on such a topic...

First of all, everyone's contributions to this thread are greatly appreciated. Suicide is a triggering topic to say the least, for some more than others. It's also a subject that is very subjective & personal, eliciting a obviously wide variety of opinions. It's not been an easy thread to post to or to read. But it seems it has been worth it.

Secondly, for no other reason than that it is/was the topic, and a sense of moderator duty, I want to remind everyone, especially anyone who may have been really triggered by this topic, to seek help at a local crisis shelter or emergency room if you are having strong suicidal feelings & urges. Please.

Third, whatever our views about it, suicide, and what happens afterward, compromise things that are unknown to us, if not by belief then by personal experience (obviously, since we're all still here). What we do all experience personally,
in whatever ways, is the NOW.

May all of your NOWs be healing, recovery, peace, fullness & life.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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