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#49585 - 03/04/03 04:51 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Is suicide really all that bad?

I don't know that I can put a value of good or bad on something like this. I certainly don't view the act as something 'bad', or the person who commits suicide as 'bad', nor do I view them as good either. In many ways I can understand the extreme despair that must have led to their decision, having lived and experienced similar despair myself. What I am left with, in terms of characterizing suicide, is the word sadness. Sadness for the situation, sadness that the world could leave an individual so alone and desperate, sadness at unfulfilled promise, sadness that there is so much suffering ...and not in some far off place, but sometimes right next door.

I have a problem with the concept that perpetrators win when one of their victims commits suicide. I don't think perpetrators are ever winners. Society failed the victim. We have to become a better, more aware, more nurturing society. We have to look after our children better. Peace, Andrew


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#49586 - 03/04/03 06:19 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
mattandrew Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 376
Loc: Florida
Is Suicide really all that bad,i personally do not think so after what i have experienced and lived thru not just the SA by a SXO during my growing up years as a child.

Suicide for some may not be the answer nor would it be accepted in their family, let alone their friends too.I personally think suicide may be the answer to a problem that will forever be something that someone may have to live with due to the abuse they sustained in their youth and will forever have to live with it for the remainder of their life.

Years ago i tried suicide and was not able to fully take my life.You see i am one who has gone thru the SA throughout my youth, i survived the worst of abuse that a person could have gone thru.You might sit there right now and say but you are a survivor maybe but,the way i now look at suicide is if a person such as gunnar was faced with the rest of his life with a disease that would eventually take his life then i could understand why a person would want to end their suffering and years of pain.

Gunnar,was a great person who went thru a lot in his life and was suffering but did not let on to it as he helped those in need all the way to the end of his life,Gunnar was a true survivor in every sense of the word and meaning but he was suffering a lot and he is in a better place where ever that may be,he is now with his maker and is no longer suffering in his body.

Suicide is not all that bad,it gives an out for a person that may be suffering and needs to end the pain they are not getting relief from.Suicide if it is ended by the person suffering is not murder,it is an option that must be sought out if the suffering will not end nor will it be relieved thru other means such as therapy or thru doctors.

Therapy and doctors are not the end all be all in this world even though everyone makes it out to be that way however, therapy and doctors can help in certain situations if the person wanting to end their life really wants to reach out for help and the doctors and therapists can help the person then there may be another option besides the end of life.

I understand it quite well now after the last couple of months of my life,i have comptiplated ending life as i know it due to no relief of pain and knowing who caused the damage to my physical body and now forever having to live with it,if i can't get the relief i seek and if therapy will not help anymore then the only other option is to end the physical suffering of my life.

I would not end my life to hurt others such as family or what is left of my family and then my friends but,rather i would end the suffering that cannot be touched with mans inventions and therapy and medications.This would be the right option not only to end the suffering but to end the financial strain that will go on thru the rest of my life due to the physical.Now am i saying i am at that point right now i really do not think so as i am seeking out the help needed to give my life the relief i seek to make the quality of life better for me to continue living but, should that not work for me then the other option may come into action not only for myself but also to lighten the burden on my family if i can no longer take care of myself or will have to be taken care of by others and family members.


I have chosen not to allow my family to have to be burdened with me if it gets to this point then i will consider the option of relief to be in a better place.So please understand what i am saying here my life as i know it right now is not going to end however if it gets to the point of what i have shared then i may seek out the relief needed otherwise consider me still a survivor and still trying to let myself win the fight against SA and my SXO who caused the damage to me.

_________________________
M.A.N. ,
Boy who was trapped in society's nightmare & moving on thru healing & accountability.

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#49587 - 03/04/03 06:32 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I have been suicidal in my life too. Especially when I was 19 till about 26. I remember at one point it was not a matter of if I would commit suicide but when and how. At my lowest point I was about 23 and had gotten into 3 car accidents in a very short period of time. I had recently confided to my mother that I didn't think I could keep living. After I wrecked her Maxima I came home to try to tell her. She interupted me by saying "If you crashed my car you might as well just kill yourself!" After that I just didn't kill myself out of spite for her. It kept me alive until I found a reason to keep trying. After I bought a new car and showed all my friends I crashed it, and I was so depressed I walked home fouteen miles from the accident site, just out of self hatred. My brother who was raped at cub scout camp drove his car into a tree going 60 mph, but lived.

Despair is the tough part. Feeling like there is nothing to live for. I don't have that problem any more, but it was tough when I did. I wish I could convince you there is no reason to despair. There is so much to live for and I think all of our individual lives matter more than we can immagine.

Suffering isn't easy either. I've been thinking lately that my suffering is a good thing. I think the burden I bear is making the world a better place, although I don't think I could possibly explain why. There are a lot of examples of people who suffered for obvious good causes. Like war heros or Martin Luther King. What veteran returning from war isnt happy to show his scars? And who sees those scars and thinks less of him? I can see a lot of scars by reading this thread, and I don't think less of anyone for his scars.

It didn't make sense to me when I first heard it, but if we offer up our pain and suffering God can use it for good. I couldn't explain why in a million years. I say you have a lot to give and in the end if you persevere you will not be ashamed of your scars. Also, my oppinion is that if anyone who claims to be religious and screams at you about this, than they are not what they claim to be.

<----my $0.02 on the topic

Mo Healing


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#49588 - 03/04/03 06:37 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
mattandrew,
Having followed your postings for the past few months, I am in no doubt as to your ability to battle through any adversity. You have shown that for every problem there is an opportunity for a solution. You have suffered mattandrew, but you have managed to navigate the mine fields and help others in this forum. I am sure if you continue to focus on helping your fellow SA survivors, you will reap the benefits of your generous spirit.
Peace, Andrew


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#49589 - 03/04/03 08:00 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I find the two posts from Matt and Les absolutly incredible, in most respects they're offering an opposite opinion and rationale about this very emotive subject, but they have so much in common as well.

Quote:
Suffering isn't easy either. I've been thinking lately that my suffering is a good thing. I think the burden I bear is making the world a better place, although I don't think I could possibly explain why. There are a lot of examples of people who suffered for obvious good causes.
Les, there are also a lot of examples of people who have suffered for NO good reason as well, and they go on to defy their suffering with a strength we find hard to imagine.

Quote:
So please understand what i am saying here my life as i know it right now is not going to end however if it gets to the point of what i have shared then i may seek out the relief needed otherwise consider me still a survivor and still trying to let myself win the fight against SA and my SXO who caused the damage to me.
Strength such as Matt's.......

Because we are enduring various levels of pain at different times, and we have different psychological make-ups, many of us will feel at times that suicide is an option. But although I can only talk about the pain I felt in my mind and not the actual, physical pain many people feel, I still think that we generally find that glimmer of hope within us that tells us to walk away and have another go at life.
Not always the easy option, but certainly the most rewarding.

On a side note, Matt's post reminded me that Holland is about the only country that has legal euthanasia for the terminally ill.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#49590 - 03/04/03 11:04 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Troy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 12
Loc: West Coast
I think we all need to keep in mind that legal euthanasia for the terminally ill and suicide are two different things. A healthy person taking their own life for whatever reason is different than euthanasia for the terminally ill. I see this as two entirely different subjects.

_________________________
Love in Life...(Troy)

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#49591 - 03/05/03 06:15 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
drunk and have not read replies.......

suicide is the ultiment slap in the face to the peope who care about you.....

your brother in recovery, Brian....


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#49592 - 03/05/03 02:00 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
still 12 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/01
Posts: 167
Is suicide really all that bad?

All I can say is what I have been taught. The fact is we don't have the right to take some else's life (self defense excluded). So why should our own life be exempt? Yes, we can be our own worst ememy but at the same time I don't think it give's us the right. I have had 2 relatives and 1 friend commit suicide. There is a vast difference in the feeling surrounding that person's death than someone who died of an illness, accident, or old age. The suicide gives a bad feeling, like something just isn't right. I think the feeling is so different because it really is the wrong way to go. I just don't think we're intended to go that way.
At the risk of sounding cliche, we are all dealt a hand in the beginning. Some get a royal flush, some get 2 pair, and some just get a lousy hand. You have all seen one's that have been dealt that lousy hand turn it into a winner. It can be done. Everyone is different though.
Yes, I have thought of it. I have spoken about it to my wife who nearly did because of severe depression about 13 years ago (along with our children). She is glad that she didn't. I am too. That is an understatement.
I know life can suck. And I also know that it can suck worse for many others.
I still think there is hope.
I can also say that I would be very afraid to try it. I am not sure completely that it would be the end of the suffering. But I can't say that with complete assurance.

Please, no one take offense at anything I said. I am just stating what I was thinking about this subject. I know I can't be in someone else's shoes and feel their pain and know what they are thinking.

The whole thing really is a very lonely and sad process.

Still 12


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#49593 - 03/05/03 11:44 PM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1212
Loc: Northern Ohio
Resently, someone said to me, (A very wise man at that),....
As long as there's life, there's hope.

I think, and have been thinking, that this just about sums it up. I think that is the bottom line.

Life = Hope

All I've been looking for is Hope.
And there it was/is, right in front of me, Life.

"the answer" to all my issues are not in a quik fix,
but perhaps in time, I'll find that freedom I'm fighting for, that peace I'm searching for.

Life = Hope
Hope = Life

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#49594 - 03/06/03 12:06 AM Re: is suicide really all that bad?
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
I have had those thoughts, but I could never act on them. I have gone to sleep hoping I would not wake up. But all that was long ago.

When I open my eyes in the morning I know only one thing for certain; I still have Life.

And as miserable as my coming day may be, and as much as my body and heart may ache, that too is Life. I just don't want to miss what happens next. It could be amazing.

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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