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#49427 - 03/26/06 08:13 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
andrew76 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Florida
MORNING STAR

Quote:
_________________________________________________
Forgiveness helps us forget the pain and the trauma we went thru
_________________________________________________

Sometimes forgiveness does not take the pain nor the trauma alone sometimes it follows us the rest of our lives no matter what we do as a survivor whether we go to a shrink and sit on the couch and pay the therapist 300.00 to 500.00 a session and open the bottle of pain and trauma or if we find our own way of dealing with the pain and trauma without professional help.

See for some of us we have physical damage and scars that will never go away from the abuse and no matter if we forgive or not those scars and the damage will carry over from the abuse for the rest of our lives and we will have to be reminded of the abuse and what the abuser did to us daily every time we look at ourselves in the mirror or every time others look at us.Forgiveness cannot take that pain or trauma away it only gets worse by the day and many times that is why we see survivors take themselves out of this world and out of the abuse and away from the life they once lived sometimes it would be better for those people to no longer have to suffer and no matter what anyone says my personal belief is those survivors that the pain and trauma cannot be taken away from those survivors should be allowed to end their pain and suffering as they need to no matter how they so choose to end their pain and end the living day in and day out of constantly seeing the trauma on their physical body.

MORNING STAR
Quoted:
_________________________________________________
And after spending a lifetime in darkness and pain I wonder why did I take so long to reach here, and then something reminds me it all happens in Gods time.
_________________________________________________

I do not concur with this statement that it happens in "G'S" time,i do not belive that it take a lifetime to be in darkness and pain.

Sometimes it is the survivors own choosing to remain in places where they feel comfortable even if that means living in suppresion land and not dealing with the most obvious thing that should be dealt with which is, the healing from the abuse so the person can move from victim to survivor hopefully in a much better way instead of just calling themselves a survivor without actually dealing with the abuse.

My hope is that all of us as survivors can find healing,comfort and peace as we heal and as well talk to those survivors that have gone before us that offer their hand of assistance to help us along the path of healing and survivorship.

_________________________


Eye of tiger stares down perp,tiger teeth rips perp to shreds
to be abused kills the soul
to survive is to live the ultimate punishment

Knocking on hells door!!

To be silenced is an American amendment right violation,free speech

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#49428 - 03/27/06 03:32 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
OK. I've watched this thread ebb and flow for weeks now and am going to put in my $0.02 worth.

The word "Forgive" implies that someone has asked for forgiveness. One cannot forgive if no request has been made for that action. One can let it go, refuse to harbor bad feelings, etc., but it takes two individuals to bring about the act of forgiveness.

Perhaps I'm just superimposing my own definition on the word, but that's the way I see it.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#49429 - 03/27/06 05:16 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Obviously my observations are only meant for fellow beings you are willing to forgive and use that path, but then if you are not willing to right now, feel free to skip it. ;\)

Like most victims I too spent a lifetime justifying non forgiveness, till the day I realied that if I am non forgiving,I am non-forgiving towards myself as well.

So take you pick man its your life afterall, but chill!

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#49430 - 03/27/06 05:50 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by walkingsouth:
OK. I've watched this thread ebb and flow for weeks now and am going to put in my $0.02 worth.

The word "Forgive" implies that someone has asked for forgiveness. One cannot forgive if no request has been made for that action. One can let it go, refuse to harbor bad feelings, etc., but it takes two individuals to bring about the act of forgiveness.

Perhaps I'm just superimposing my own definition on the word, but that's the way I see it.

Lots of love,

John
John,

This is a very important point. If someone hasn't asked for forgiveness, then it is possible that they don't think they need it.

Then again, there is the idea that those who don't ask for forgiveness are those who need it most. But such arguments are for the theologians and philosophers.

You can consider "true" forgiveness to be a two way street, but I don't think it is anything different if or when we forgive someone without their asking.

Is it something less? I don't think so. In fact I think that we forgive all sorts of things, all the time, without ever being asked. It's almost a staple of modern life.

I am inclined to believe that forgiving without being asked is an expression of the strength, trust and faith in ourselves that we develop.

Or it is a choice we make because we believe that it will be a healing, positive action for ourselves.

I think your definition is too limiting. And, I admit that your words "feel" like they are negating and minimizing choices I (and others here) have made with respect to forgiveness, so I wanted to be sure to let you know how I view and use forgiveness - at least the type not preceeded by a request.

Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#49431 - 03/27/06 05:51 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
time2heal Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 46
There is a continuity between all of the posts here. It is about releasing the pain of abuse. Everyones path is different. The end result is the same to be right within yourself. Right now I cannot put my abuser in jail. So I still must release my pain. If my abuser were to abuse again or it was 15 years ago I think he would be going to jail. I have a choice now and that is wether to expose him or not. If I expose I hurt and he hurts. If I do not expose and give "Forgiveness" I take away the rage and pain from myself. I do not know my path yet but I am seeking it. If I am mistaken guys tell me.


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#49432 - 03/27/06 12:59 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I think John (WalkingSouth) is onto something important here, and I would, if I may, rephrase it slightly to get to the point I want to raise.

John suggests that forgiveness is an act of communication. I seek forgiveness by taking some action myself: admitting guilt, expressing regret, making compensation, whatever. I do this by way of seeking a response from the person I have wronged. I want him to say he "forgives" me.

Donald sees this as too limiting and feels that "forgiving without being asked is an expression of the strength, trust and faith in ourselves that we develop". Or perhaps it's "a choice we make because we believe that it will be a healing, positive action for ourselves".

Andrew76, however, speaks of the "F word" and is entirely opposed to the possibility of ever forgiving the abuser of a child.

But could I ask here: "What IS forgiveness?" What am I saying if I tell someone "I forgive you"? Perhaps we disagree here because we have different assumptions about what it is we are talking about giving.

For me, a definition that sees forgiveness as having something to do with a decision to move forward and just not allow the abuser's past deeds to harm me anymore has nothing to do with forgiveness at all. That's my determination to heal, not my willingness to forgive.

Also, the man who abused me is dead. Can I forgive the dead, assuming I would want to?

I'm not sure I have my definition yet, but I will admit that right now I am not in a place to give this much attention. Whatever forgiveness is, I doubt that I would ever be willing to give it. But I have changed in many ways over the past year, and perhaps I will change on this one as well.

This is really a valuable and thought-provoking thread. It's great that such a delicate and potentially triggering subject can be discussed so calmly here among us.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#49433 - 03/27/06 02:10 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
for me the defination of forgivness ,means saying somehow i understand the abusers actions ,that i can rationalize what he did ,that there is some excuse that takes the blame away. its like saying ok what happened wasnt that bad and i can forget it.but can we forget it? no! how can you forgive if you cant forget? forgivness is not something i have within me.not for an abuser anyway shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#49434 - 03/27/06 02:48 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
I looked up the definition. Most of the items identified "forgive" in words similar to the following.
Quote:
to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense
So by that definition, I would never forgive someone like taxi guy even if he asked because to do so would put others at risk. Such a course would be irresponsible.

I can let it go, refuse to harbor bad feelings about him, learn to even feel sorry for him, I can visit him in jail and tell him these things, I can perhaps become his friend, but I cannot forgive by that definition.

Now I've shared a total of $0.04 so I've overstayed my welcome on this topic.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#49435 - 03/27/06 05:45 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

I looked up the definition as well, and it astonished me to find NOTHING that I could remotely relate to in the context of what I think of as "forgiveness".

Refraining from imposing punishment or demanding satisfaction? That's forgiveness?

I seems to me we really ARE talking an idea that can mean many things to many people. So again, what do we think forgiveness really is? Don't we need to agree what we are talking about before we discuss whether we can do it?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#49436 - 03/27/06 07:49 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
andrew76 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Florida
A new view of forgiveness is something i have been thinking of which is a person on death row going to be executed for a crime that caused the most unbearable pain and abuse a human being could ever suffer and as the death row inmate looks over as he is being strapped down and the order is given and the inmate asks for forgiveness for his crime i have seen others forgive the person as they die as they can no longer harm another human being.What about the abuser still walking the street after being released from prison or one that has not gone to prison but the both of these subjects are still abusing other human beings and children do they deserve our forgiveness if they are offending others even after they ask for our forgiveness for the abuse we incured but then the abuser turns right around and abuses someone else and if we had thoughts that the abuser would re-offend and we forgive the abuser but someone else gets harmed then we as a survivor sometimes are pulled into a case where the police and the prosecuters try to get all the victims of the offender together should all those survivors and victims forgive the person this is something to ponder.

As well i am not saying that i never could forgive just at this point in my journey I do not see my self forgiving my abuser maybe later on down the road it may happen but I also am not saying that I will ever forget what abuse I had to suffer at the hands of my abuser.Sometimes what we go thru makes us a stronger person if we allow ourselves to learn from the experience and if we take a step back and think about things from other perspectives and from others points of view like what is taking place with this thread which is a great thing we all are bringing good points to the table to be pondered on and checking others points of view so we can draw what the word "Forgiveness really is and the definition of the word as well.

Thank you for the other points of view here it makes me sit back and think of what the other person has gone thru or how they view and feel about certain aspects of the healing from our abuse.

_________________________


Eye of tiger stares down perp,tiger teeth rips perp to shreds
to be abused kills the soul
to survive is to live the ultimate punishment

Knocking on hells door!!

To be silenced is an American amendment right violation,free speech

Top
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