Newest Members
JayNL, Robert Barrett, lostsoul824, beatcook, MassGuy
12279 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
melnjams (42), rage (27)
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 25 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12279 Members
73 Forums
63193 Topics
441854 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 13 < 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 >
Topic Options
#49371 - 02/19/06 07:13 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
I do indeed agree that forgiving oneself is important and necessary.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#49372 - 02/20/06 10:48 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
theo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 1117
forgiveness...
to see another human being who, in their own pain, made such an evil msitake and harmed an innocent, but later profoundly and deeply regreted it...this, i could someday perhaps forgive, for they were human all along, but made an evil choice, yet felt that remorse for it. the predatory ones, though, they forsook their humanity a long time ago through their own choice. when i think of them, the rage knows no bounds. one cannot forgive what is no longer human, i think. yet, there is that very important thing that has been pointed out here...it is about our individual journey of healing and recovery that we make the choices we do. there are two that fit that predatory, inhuman stigma for me. i recall some time ago that i found out one of them was living ninety minutes away from me after thirty years of him being vaguely "elsewhere". now, he was practically right next door to me. i was going to go after him. i came here instead and starting talking abut it. this is where i found out what might be meant in making the choice for one own's self.

the rage i felt then is still so very here with me, however, it was that rage over an inhuman predator that almost drove me to be something i am not. i don't know if it is about forgiveness, i do know it is about finding a path of peace for one's self, and not comprimising what one is iinside. to go off and hunt this evil down and let my rage explode would have been wrong for me, the man i am and am trying to be. iintervention iin the defense of another innocent is competely differrent though. even then, it is about remaining true to who i am and who i am trying to be...a man who will see no other innocent harmed if i can iintervene, but also a man who will retain the integrity and dignity i have fought so damned hard to acheive. the predatory evil will not take that humanity from me. i believe i digressed lol. yes, theo is back brothers ;\)

_________________________
journey well,
theo dewolfe

- It is gift, and gift will find its way
- I inherit through my choice. I build through my affirmation. It is through my freedom that I nurture, or fade into autonomy
- I was not given to serve life, but to embrace it

Top
#49373 - 02/20/06 02:45 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Today I finally figured it out why listening to my abusers say sorry or repent was so important for me, because I would then no longer blame myself for it and understand that it was entirely his choice!

Today I feel I have freed myself.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
#49374 - 02/20/06 02:47 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
My responsibility laid in my response to the crime and to the crime itself, that was entirely his choice.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
#49375 - 02/20/06 10:35 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
As I have heard, until you forgive the perp, the per is still controlling you. I can conceptually undertand this thought. As a Christian, I am taught this throughout the new testament. But again, it is nor for the perp, but for you. There are also at least two others that must be forgiven...1) is you and 2) is God (or your higher power).

Oh by the way, the definition of "Perp" is really broad. If you are interested in learning about this from a Christian perspective I have two suggestions:

1) The Wounded heart by Dan Allender

2)Hope Recovery by Beth Moore. This is an incredible 5-cd set that walks through all of this. She spends an hour talking about the pain that God felt as your abuse was happening. Definitely worth the money.

Finally, my biggest issue regarding forgiveness is that I feel nothing toward my perps. I did have a recent rage session and I wanted to rip my mothers head apart - not only off. But for the three know perps, I feel nothing. How can you forgive what you do not fill??

Thanks for letting me rant.

Danny


Top
#49376 - 02/21/06 03:04 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Dewey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 137
Loc: the sunshine state
I was just kicking around the idea of when Jesus asked the Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do" when people were killing Him. Seems to me that they knew what they were doing. But the far reaching ramifications? No they couldn't have known. He was just a pain in their ass. The guy who abused me? Would he have done what he did if he took the time to clear-headedly really think about the fact that it would impact me for the rest of my days on this planet? Man I gotta believe no, he just wanted to get his rocks off. He deserves to be forgiven because he's so pathetic. Whew! Thanks for the rant. D.

_________________________
I refuse to use my past as an excuse to not have a future.
My hero Dad; Trigger warning- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE

Top
#49377 - 02/21/06 06:50 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
I'm not so sure I agree.

I can forgive myself for, as a child, going along with the abuse because I could not have been expected to consider the implications and far-reaching ramifications of such things. However, adults - especially those who have, or are at least capable of having, their own families, don't get as much leeway. These perpetrators are not children, so I cannot excuse them for having a child's lack of consideration or foresight.

Maybe other perps are different, granted (for example, perps who indeed are children themselves). But I'm only dealing with mine. And again, as I mentioned, there was just too much planning here on the part of my perps. It wasn't a grab-the-kid-off-the-street thing; I was (I believe the relevant term would be) "groomed".

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#49378 - 02/21/06 05:11 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Splitting Offline
Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 62
Just a MAJOR point of clarification.

Forgiving perps is not letting them off the hook. It is you releasing yourself from their control. They deserve every consequence that comes their way. That will be between them and the courts, society, their conscious (if they ever develop one), and finally, their God.

By no means am I supporting the allieviation of consequences for the perps. I am saying that until we can let it go, it has control over us.

the anger and desire for revenge is still controlling you. Do you want those assholes to have that power over the adult in each of you. I don't.

As a child we had no choice. As adults we do once we have reached a state in which our recovery will allow us to make that choice.

This forgiveness cannot be a token measure and can only come after we have all done a lot of gut wrenching recovery work. We may be 90 before we are able to do this. We may never get there...and that is ok. At least we are on the journey with a heart that is healing and willing to continue to heal.

Have a blessed day everyone.

Danny


Top
#49379 - 02/22/06 07:05 PM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
No chance. It was my anger that kept me alive (and very nearly killed me) but today I have learnt to direct that anger into more positive action. Forgiveness for my abusers in not in my vocabulary.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


Top
#49380 - 02/23/06 05:16 AM Re: Forgiveness...for the abusers?
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Indeed; when I first came to recognize (at the time, it was almost something I had to "concede" to myself) my abuse as such, I became angry at all the wrong people. I was at different times antisocial and self-destructive (perhaps not dangerously so in the physical sense, but still). When I finally realized who really deserved that anger, the antisocial and self-destructive feelings and tendencies fell from my shoulders, and I left them behind in the dust.

Do I look to the future with the thought of revenge sitting on a back burner in my brain? You betcher. My perps belong in jail - but I cannot put them there; I don't remember enough of the important details to make it happen. Yet. Perhaps I never will - and that might make me even angrier - or perhaps I might. Sometimes things fall together. Meantime, I sate my anger by doing what admittedly little I can do to see others like my perps be brought to justice. I can see a hundred other pedophiles hauled in and jailed, and it will never be enough until my own sense of justice is fulfilled, and there's only one way that can happen.

In any case, it takes resolve - and forgiving, forgetting, marginalizing, or ignoring my abuse in favor of some pretense at serenity threatens that resolve. How can one remain honest to himself by "forgiving" his perpetrator one the one hand, and longing for (and working for) legal justice on the other? By dissociating. By transferring the injustice - making it no longer an injustice against himself, but rather an injustice against "society" of which he happens to be a part. And "society" is not "myself", therefore the perp's going to jail may be important but not as important as it used to be. "Life goes on".

Not I. I am not one of the bees I keep. This crime was committed against me, and I must have satisfaction. Seeing my perps in jail is the only way to obtain closure. It's my "White Buffalo". My own personal Dark Tower, for the King fans among you.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
Page 2 of 13 < 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.