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#480815 - 04/16/15 08:55 AM survivor curious sex with men - Trigger warning
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 172
TRIGGER WARNING!!!

Input requested from survivors and supporters.

My survivor is Sagittarius like me - we love to explore new things. In talking about things to explore, he once again proposed a threesome last night, he and I and a second male. i can't go into too many details on this site but suffice to say we would both pleasure the other guy, they would pleasure each other, and they would pleasure me. Now to be clear, I am not into group sex and there is a likelihood that if another man tried to touch me, I would probably punch him.

In exploring the fantasy, he said he is curious about what it would be like to have sex with a man - he's interested in knowing what a male penis feels like in his anus and in his mouth. Background - raped by a man as a child while family held him down and repeated attempts by stepfather for BJ both ways.

I told him I was concerned about the possibility his CSA was driving the fantasy and therefore it concerned me. I told him that it was difficult for someone who survived CSA to distinguish between a healthy attraction for the same sex and a CSA driven attraction because of confusion following the abuse.

I also told him I was worried that he wouldn't feel icky with men like he feels with me and then decide he prefers to be with men. Or if he did choose to be with me, that he would possibly sneak around behind my back having sex with men in dangerous situations.

I believe in monogamy and there are some things he and I can do to help a little with some of his curiosity but a threesome is a definite no while giving him a "hall pass" to try sex with a man seems like it is beyond what I am willing to accept, being monogamous by nature. Yet I am worried if I don't give him a hall pass for a one time event, he will sneak around behind my back and either get hurt himself or give me a disease should he catch one; not to be graphic but his fantasy with a different guy involves neither of them wearing a condom.

I told him executing those fantasies would compromise our relationship and he said he doesn't want to do that.

Thoughts? I think he is experiencing same sex attraction as a result of his abuse and I don't think the healthy choice would be for me to bless the fantasy. thoughts?


Edited by ModTeam (04/24/15 04:55 AM)
Edit Reason: added Trigger warning sign in subject

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#480818 - 04/16/15 09:28 AM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Acorn2Oak Offline


Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 36
Loc: NC
Hi Mishka, male CSA survivor here: first may I say I really value and respect you via your many wise posts on here. That said:

On the one hand, fantasy is fantasy and perhaps worthwhile to contemplate and discuss as fantasy only.

On the other, you have your own values, dignity, integrity, etc. to honor and maintain in reality. Regardless, that has to come first.

And just my opinion echoing yours that such fantasy maybe CSA driven (I would automatically assume that in most cases). While it may be cathartic in a way, it's not necessarily healthy or wise to indulge in fact ... and as you said, could be dangerous.

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#480820 - 04/16/15 10:03 AM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 761
Loc: NJ
There is tons of posts on this topic. You can do a search and see a bevy of info. Also, I would encourage you to post TRIGGER WARNING on posts like these so that people are prepared for the nature of the question.

That said, I am with Acorn. Fantasies are fantasies. They don't have to be acted on and they don't even really need analysis unless the survivor is troubled by them. The fact that he is communicating them to you shows trust but I would not get too wrapped up in a fantasy unless someone is asking that they be acted out. Then, your boundaries come into play. Not our judgement of the fantasy per se, but our own boundary. This is not something that I am interested in pursuing. This is not something that I want in our relationship.

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#480821 - 04/16/15 10:34 AM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 172
Acorn and Esposa,

Thank you both for your wise input. I was a little uncertain about the health of his desire to actually carry out the fantasy and a teeny bit uncertain about where to draw the boundary with his curiosity. Acorn, thank you for suggesting its best to assume his interest is CSA driven and likely not healthy to indulge. It's hard to treat him as a completely neurotypical male all the time because if I assume he is behaving in a neurotypical fashion and he is behaving in a neuro-atypical fashion, a real train wreck will ensue.

Esposa, you helped me strengthen that boundary into a firm "no" for no other reason than I don't want him sharing himself with anyone else. And thanks for the reminder about TRIGGER WARNING...I forgot it. My apologies to all.

Thanks again my friends!

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#481037 - 04/20/15 01:00 PM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Serious Dave Offline


Registered: 01/18/15
Posts: 117
Loc: OH
Mishka,

Your needs, feelings, limits, and boundaries are no less important than his. Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't compromise, especially on something that could have devastating consequences. I would also consider that giving your permission once would normalize the behavior and make it much more likely to happen again (and again, perhaps).

It's not healthy for you to give up who you are to indulge a fantasy like this no matter how badly he thinks he "needs" it. Despite strong feelings of SSA for the past 40+ years (as an adult), I have never gone there because, above all, I respected the commitment I made to God and to my wife. In my opinion, if he wants this, he should step out of the relationship, permanently, out of respect for you.

Sorry to be so adamant about this, but I have read your posts long enough to know that you have gone way out of your way to be a good partner. I just think you should be respected.

Dave
_________________________
An eight year old boy named Dave
laid 45 years in his grave.
But, he dug his way out,
and he now has no doubt
that the rest of his life he can save.

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#481051 - 04/20/15 05:12 PM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 172
Thanks Dave.

I greatly appreciate your thoughts on the matter and please always be adament. In this case, I really needed other opinions to know for sure where to draw the line. A threesome is a definite no, regardless of who it is with (man or woman). I do understand there are lots of men out there who enjoy such things but I won't participate. Just so everyone knows, he isn't pressuring me or expressing a strong need - we were just talking about things we might enjoy. He said that he would refrain if I wasn't interested. And he is also concerned that he wouldn't be able to handle another man touching me anyway.

He seems more interested in trying sex with a man. I explained SSA to him once and asked if he knew whether his curiosity was influenced by the SSA and he didn't know. He doesn't talk to his therapist about it or relationships at all because he is working on other issues. He also says despite his curiosity, he doesn't know if he could follow through because the idea because he thinks he won't like to be touched by a man. I really think it is just SSA and he doesn't understand.

When I wrote the post, I didn't want to give him a hall pass to satisfy his curiosity...I wanted to treat him just like everyone else I would be in a relationship and insist on monogamy. I needed help from my friends here to accept that it is ok to say "no" and I needed a reassurance that the temptation can be avoided just like I avoid temptation every day with the men around me. I will definitely enforce the boundary. When I see him face to face next month, I will let him know that I am just fine with the fact that he has SSA but I am not fine if he engages in sexual activity with anyone besides me and if he violates my trust, we're done.

Thanks again for the help!

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#481073 - 04/21/15 07:59 AM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 172
Update - I actually told him last night. I explained that I was pretty dog gone certain that his curiosity was "just" SSA and that it wasn't likely to go away completely during his life. I said I accepted him just the way he is and that I don't judge him at all. I then asked him not to act on his curiosity because I didn't think it was a healthy thing to do; I said that it was likely his subconscious mind trying to recreate elements of his abuse.

For my gay friends on this site, he and I have already talked about whether he might be bi-sexual...he is certain that he isn't bisexual. His certainty on the matter is part of the reason why I said his SSA is unhealthy; I wasn't making a judgmental comment about gay men. *hugs*

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#481123 - 04/22/15 07:48 PM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
txb Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 267
Itís kind of pointless me posting now since you have already dealt with this, but this just occurred to me while I was reading. A lot of my friends describe themselves as straight but curious. My ex-girlfriend was the same, so I figure itís a pretty normal thing? And if it is, why is it ok and normal for them, but if you've been abused itís SSA and itís a bad thing? How could you tell? Not like I'm any kind of expert but your guyís fantasy seemed pretty reasonable to me. I know someone (who was abused) who wanted to do a similar thing but it seemed like the whole thing was more about him being humiliated in front of his girlfriend. That doesn't seem healthy to me. But a mutual thing where you were both equally involved seems pretty healthy Ė if you have that kind of relationship. (For me I found that doing some stuff that happened to me as a kid on my own terms now has been helpful in terms of moving on. Not recommending that at all but I just wanted to say that itís not always a disaster for everyone).

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#481142 - 04/23/15 08:25 AM Re: Input requested - survivor curious sex with men [Re: Mishka95673]
Mishka95673 Offline


Registered: 01/03/15
Posts: 172
Hi TXB,
Thanks much for weighing in - it's never too late for knowledge.

I'm only interested in monogamy and if he is unable to provide me with that, I won't be with him. He has had issues in the past...being on dating sites or hook up sites when we are supposed to be together...and even went on some dates with some women behind my back. He says that is all over with now and if I find evidence it isn't, I will end our association. He is trying hard to be faithful.

I don't mind at all if he is curious; there is no shame in that. If he wants to be with me, I will not tolerate him being with anyone else which means his curiosity will go unsatisfied because it would mean he stepped out of a monogamous relationship. He says our relationship is more important to him than satisfying his curiosity so he will remain faithful. And if I even strongly suspect he breaks faith like he has done in the past, the relationship is over. I don't care if it seems unfair that only strong suspicion is required - strong suspicion has led to massive lies and cover up of infidelity in the past so I won't even stick around to discover the lies. He creates the situation himself so now he must accept the consequences regardless of whether they seem fair.

I'm really glad that you mentioned that sometimes it is helpful for you to revisit the past a bit, exercising control over events...the control you didn't have as a kid. I try hard to do that with him too for some of the kinky stuff he enjoys, stuff which to me is not even sexual in nature but he super enjoys them. I refuse to initiate those things but will provide them upon request, doing them how he wishes they be done, leaving him completely in control. I also will only do things with him if he remains present with me - if those things take him back to his childhood, I won't do them. You know it's really hard as a supporter to support without enabling and without undermining therapeutic process. Everything is always such a judgement call so I am glad to know that sometimes doing some things while YOU are in control is helpful to you. I hope it is the same for my man.

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#481614 - Yesterday at 11:47 PM Re: survivor curious sex with men - Trigger warning [Re: Mishka95673]
banterings Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 10
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Mishka,

Read my post Trans porn, bisexuality, crossdressing, surviving. You will see that bisexuality is normal because our bodies are built to be bisexual by default.

He may also want to participate in these acts as a way of taking control back.

You also admitted that you have a problem with it (more than him obviously). I believe that the "ick factor" would be more from you seeing him with another man.

To simply say that he only wants to do this because of the abuse is a total fallacy. He may be bisexual.

Would you expect a heterosexual person to seek out a same sex relationship if they were abused by a member of the opposite sex?

Would you tell a heterosexual person that their opposite sex relationship (post abuse) is because they were abused by a member of the opposite sex?

Perhaps you both may find some common ground or something that may satisfy those urges for him; dare I suggest a strap on?

I can tell you that for (most) men prostate orgasms are more pleasurable, intense, longer, better than orgasms from penis/vaginal intercourse. If he is dealing with any disfunction, prostate orgasms may be an alternative.

Just my thoughts.
_________________________
--Banterings

-------------------------

My story:


I don't have issues, I have [whole] subscriptions....

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