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#47628 - 07/01/06 02:36 AM For our Brit friends
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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Registered: 08/24/00
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Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I was interviewed by a team from ITV today about Megan's Law. They came to my area since I'm about 15 miles from where Megan Kanka was killed and have been working with offenders for nearly 30 years. The show will be on at 8 pm Monday. Some sort of news show. Hopefully, I didn't come off sounding like a dolt. Would appreciate any feedback from any of you who catch it.

Ken


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#47629 - 07/01/06 03:06 AM Re: For our Brit friends
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
ken ,have you heard of a group called califorbians againt megans law? ste posted a link to a site debating the good of meagans law and the predator regestry . there are some amazingly off the wall people out there who are screamming about loosing our rights ,with things like megans law.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#47631 - 07/01/06 10:31 AM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Monday at 8pm is 'tonight' with a black guy Trevor McDonald as host to the show.

I like his shows because they are always factual response to what goes on in the world.

I will record it on Monday, so maybe I can make
it available to you guys with a link,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47632 - 07/01/06 10:55 AM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
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Registered: 05/31/05
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http://www.itv.com/news/tonight_2b99dcde567e43287b79b27f5480f197.html

Monday at 8.00pm ITV1

Kirk

"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47633 - 07/01/06 04:19 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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I saw Sarahs mother on channel 4 prog.
The difference here, is that they want a common sense law.
It would involve making a sexual predator register.

That would give the public a greater awareness of actual predators, not just the SOR.
That register would be open to parents to see if predators live nearby.

It would not give actual addresses, which would lead to vigilante action, and false allegations in the area, given that, the public would single out any dirty old man with a shady look.

If they were named with actual addresses, then it would drive them underground.
They need to be closely supervised in the community for any effective therapy.

I will look forward to watching it,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47634 - 07/01/06 10:42 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
My understanding from what the producer told me was that it was about notification, including door to door. The experience we've had in most of the US before Megan's Laws went into effect is that there were sex offender registration laws in place. Megan's Laws were to expand it to public notification. I've got no problem with registration and supervision. This is about notifying people.

The problem with this has been that the broad net of notification made most sex offenders subject to being on the internet without much regard to differentiation between the truly dangerous and the others. Sort of a "one size fits all".

The other problem is that there have been vigilante acts taken on some offenders which include losing jobs (not talking about inappropriate jobs but employment), driven out of neighborhoods, vandalism, physical assaults, and most recently, in April, two sex offenders in the state of Maine, being shot to death.

Latest problem are "not in my backyard" restriction laws which ban any sex offender (regardless of level of risk) from 1000-2000 feet from schools, playgrounds, swimming pools, libraries, bus stops, etc. In some areas it effectively becomes banishment. As one community enacts such a law, the others nearby, like a game of musical chairs, also ban them and you begin to see them fail to register, disappear, drop out of treatment, living in cars or at truck stops, etc.

The Iowa state District Attorneys' Association which supported such a law before it went into effect, has now called for its repeal because it is counterproductive to child safety.

My piece in this ITV show is to talk about unintended consequences and emotional responses to complex problems. The experts are rarely solicited for opinions but the politicians are quick to wave the bloody flag to stir up emotions. No politician wants to be seen as supporting sex offenders.

And, the biggest problem I have with this is that they are quick to pay for more prisons, technology such as electronic monitoring, and GPS, but they are stingy on primary prevention (educating kids and parents BEFORE the kids are abuses).

Sorry for the rant but I've seen this all before.

Ken

PS My condolences for today's World Cup. Imagine how the Brazil fans feel now!


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#47635 - 07/01/06 11:20 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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Ken,

I think we need to balance logic between what the public get hear, here or read, and what is ture vs lies,.

If I was an 11yo .reading this, I would be thinking why? Did nobody go to the perps house and lock him up!

Yeah. Ken, we lost again, but my penalties are alawys pretty well unstoppable,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47636 - 07/02/06 10:56 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Ken - I will watch the program.

I can assure you that the current government in the UK is not really interested in building more prisons.

You may remember I was recently in court supporting the conviction of a paedophile from a personal perspective! I heard before we went to court that the government was trying to reduce the number of criminals (in general) going to prison...sadly this was born out in court!

I agree that kids and parents should be educated to prevent abuse happening, but at the end of the day if a paedophile abuses, then they should suffer the consequences whatever they are.

The problem that we currently have in this country (England/UK)is that we are signed up to a European Law on Human Rights! The Judges interpret these laws in favour of the perpetrators of crime (all types of crime). There should be a clause in the Law on Human Rights, that denies you those rights, once you have personally denied them to another. EXAMPLE - YOU DENY A CHILD A RIGHT TO HIS/HER CHILDHOOD BY GROOMING AND SEXUALLY ABUSING THEM. YOU THEREFORE GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT, FREEDOM TO WALK IN SOCIETY FULL STOP!

Yes they have to get it right...there is a big difference between a 16 year old and a 15 year old having sex (sex of children irrelevant), and an adult having sex with a child of any age!

We have a recent case, where a 30+ teacher (female) had sex on several occasions with a 14 year old boy. She was jailed for 4 years, and some think that is harsh because 'being a lad he would brag about it'. Rubbish - at school she took the place of his primary carer, so you could say she had incestuous sex with her son. Turn that around, and make it a 30+ male teacher having sex with a 14 year old girl...I don't have to say more do I...bloody hypocrites!

One thing that I believe is never taken into account is the actual psychological damage that occurs - every case that is reported seems to reflect on the sexual activity that occurred and not what psychological damage may be inflicted by that!

Example - as a child (0 - 8 years), I frequently went on countryside walks with various Grandparents / Uncles etc... they always took food, and I was always given pocket money! There was never anything untoward ever!

At age 8.5, we moved town, so I was not as close geographically to the support network that I had previously enjoyed. I went from being king of the hill, to being in a school where all the cliques had formed and I made friends with people who were on the side line (still good people).

At 11 I went to senior school, because I was considered to be intelligent, I went to Grammar and my friends went to Secondary Modern. I made new friends again.

In the second year one person was transferred from a different secondary modern than what my friends had gone to, to the school that I was at. He was a previous friend of my new friends! He was obviously disturbed in some way, and split everyone up!

This was when I became 'an opportunity' for the paedophile involved in my case.

He groomed me with air rifles / sweets and money (forgot to mention that one of my grandfathers had guns and lived next to a wood).

I had no reason to fear this paedophile when he presented himself to me - he seemed no different to my Grandfathers or Uncles who always had my best interests at heart.

The paedophile destroyed my trust in Authority Figures for ever when I was 12. He made me think that when I visited my Paternal Grandfather for the last 3 years of his life, that I would be abused by him (it would never have happened now that I can look back with an adult mind). I also thought until I was about 30 years old that any of my friends fathers would want to abuse me - that's what those ******** do to you.

It will get me into trouble at work, because as a Supervisor, I can see the good in the underdog, even when I should not defend them.

I want paedophiles to be locked up and serve full sentences. If the public see that the sentences are realistic, then there will be less calls for Megans/Sarahs law. The paedophiles will also know that they can loose their liberty - at present sentencing is a joke.

I never understood vigilantism before! Now that I have been in court, and found out that the paedophile that groomed and abused me, groomed and abused others, that is a multiple groomer/abuser, walked out with a suspended sentence, because the crimes were historical, and that there was no evidence of any further crimes after 1977...sorry, but I can now understand that if the judiciary do not give justice to the survivors of abuse that do everything by the law (follow every rule in the book), then maybe there are cases where vigilantes are welcome! It's not something I could personally do, but there are times that I think if I had just topped him before anyone even knew that I had a grudge, then I would have got real justice. The local kids would have been truly safe!

You are right, 'One size does not fit all', but the main problem we have in this country at present is that the people that make the decisions make too many excuses for these life wreckers!

There is no real justice/support for the victims/survivors.

In this country we have ignorant people - a group attacked the home of a paedatrician (someone that actually medically helps children) because they got their words mixed up.

So, yes we do not want any innocent victims of vigilantes, but as for the rest of them...rot in hell!

I believe that all of us here are primarily concerned about the victims of paedophilia, and that's how governments should also think.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47637 - 07/03/06 09:35 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
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Wow Rik,

blow the fuse out on the bomb you are carrying, I could explain things that I cannot type on the boards here, as I have inside info on Government stuff.

Argument;

should we have a predator register which would be run alongside the SOR?

What? Would that do!

It would continually send predators on the run, or into hiding.

The argument the Government would face, and they know it, is that the SOR keeps them in statistics about how much they are doing about abuse of kids which equates to very little in real life.

So, if we have a predator register and a parent is aware that no abuser lives nearby, then are their kids safe!
No! Because a lot of abusers can evade capture often for decades, or life.

How about a register for nutters they let out of prison who have been there for that long, they get out on licence, only to spring on an innocent life and snuff it out.

From what I learned in life, it is, to always keep safe, like I stand with my back to the train station wall etc., just in case some nutter pushes me onto the tracks.

All I can say Rik, your state barrister should have debriefed you, but it is not too late for you to ask your solicitor to get a debriefing.

It is so strange that the Recorder passed the case on to another judge on sentencing.
And I can only think of one thing here, that is the barrister for the CPS got facts wrong in presenting your case.

You should have at least been given a barrister who is dedicated in law surrounding child abuse, but guess you are in the wrong part of the country.

A lot of abuse cases involving priests from Ireland are taking place in Liverpool.
Clerical abuse is taken very serious here, and the judges here are used to the hurt that kids go through, historical or not.

I wanted to give my life to God, not by becoming a priest but a missionary.
I signed all the papers when I was 14yo, but backed out, because I was not feeling whole inside.

That woman who got four years, was given a light sentence because of the boys age.
If his true age, had have been taken into consideration, e.g., that of an 11yo, she would have got longer.

Establishing facts over age is real confusing, but she will be judged one day on her actions.

Maybe this is just a God thing, but I believe that abusers are tried by God, on what HELL they put those kids through, when they should have been good ppl.

When we walk into Gods kingdom, he knows every second of our lives, all the hurt the danger, and all the good and bad things we do.

Judges are blinded by facts, and what they believe, and err on the side of caution.
If you had a judge who had been abused, I wonder what he would have done.

This is way too long,


ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47638 - 07/04/06 10:44 AM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Ste

"should we have a predator register which would be run alongside the SOR?"

Yes absoloutly.

The reason behind my comments are this. Is it right that a 17 year old boy who has had consensual sex with his fifteen year old girl friend be put on a predators list? Or a guy (or woman come to that) who has had a skinfull on a friday night and decides to take a leak down an alleyway be put on the predatory SOR? Of course not, if that was the case as a recovering alkie I would fall almost certainly into the latter.

I have spent nearly five years in differing mental health units and yes I label myself a "nutter" as my behaviour in the past has certainly warrented that label, should there be a list of us that have "served" time in such institutions?

We are on a list of sorts.

I take it your nearest and dearest have not tried to get you sectioned when you really needed it for your own (and the publics) protection, my wife tried it on a couple of occasions but it proved impossible especially if I had been drinking, and it was only when drinking that I would attempt suicide. I am on a list of sorts as all my details are on my medical records that will be available to GP's across the UK in a very short space of time. So they will all have prior warning as to what may happen if I take a drink.

As was mentioned on "Tonight with Sir Trev", what about those that decide to go underground? Well you tag them with something called SG-Rom a very effective GPS solution and if they refuse or do not register and go underground we go after them by naming and shaming them like on Crimewatch and give them a very hefty sentance.

"as I have inside info on Government stuff".

Any chance of sharing this info by PM? As I have a meeting to attend next week with the Department of Health (mental health section).

As is said "knowledge is power".

BTW was Ken Singer featured on last nights documentary? I had to disappear for five minutes to take an important phone call.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47639 - 07/04/06 12:36 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kirk,

I know that I must be on a whole load of lists.
My family almost split up because of me, and I dont know where that would have ended up, my father wanted me to be taken into care.

We find ourselves in waves of hysteria and emotion, because of a heinous act carried out on a baby.

The media, who I have no time for, urge Government reaction, and point out the level of sex offenders in the community.

The SOR is a tool to tell the public that they are catching sex offenders, when you dont even have to be charged with an offence to be on it.

I have yet to hear of one police 'initiative', to really trap child predators, who rampage through society, often highly regarded by all.

One predator alone can cause a billion pounds worth of damage, without taking into account the mental damage and loss that the kids go through, and their families, well into the future.

The tagging thing is futuristic, but they already have the technology, just like they chip dogs.

All the technology in the world is not going to trace little Johnnys dad who regular abuses him and his friends for decades.

The cops and Government need to stop hiding behind the SOR, it is sure not a measure of anything they are pro-active in doing, it is a bunch of statistics which allows them to take public money by stealth.

I rang the cops over organised dog fighting on the beach by me, ten minutes later they turned up in a van sirens blazing.

They sat in the car park and guessed it was too far to walk, so they turned back.
I reported it to the RSPCA who said they have to rely on the cops to catch them.

WTF, when I read that another pet has been ripped apart, when they had a big opportunity to catch them all together.

Then they ask the public to ring the cops if they have information!
Guess I am not public, or cops dont know what public means.

They need to get off their big fat asses and get some exercise, it never did me any harm.
Sorry for the rant.

I have the Tonight prog recorded if anybody wants it, I dont know if Ken was on it, I have still to watch it, but if anyone wants it, I can post a link in a few days,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47640 - 07/04/06 01:43 PM Re: For our Brit friends
abcdefghijklm Offline
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Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 21
Loc: UK
I read Ken's message just before the programme started & rushed downstairs to watch. Bad programme. Ken not on it. Really needed input along the lines of what Ken says in his posting. But I guess they weren't going to give space to a complex and balanced discussion. Tom.


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#47641 - 07/04/06 02:40 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
There is not much to say in a half hour show.

I just got my faith back in the police after hearing a chief inspector who wrapped his own car around a lamp post in an effort to bravely stop two thugs.

Those thugs threw a twig in the road as his car passed, he quickly reversed onto the sidewalk and hit an innocent street light passing by.

Two little girls who threw a twig at his car, turned him into a wild animal, and he grabbed them both by the throat and mouthing expletives that he should be, teaching kids not to do.

He is such a credit to the force, almost the same credit should go to the cops who jailed a thug for two days for riding his bike with no lights on the sidewalk .

I am re-assured yet again that the cops really are making the world a little safer, NOT!

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47642 - 07/04/06 10:40 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I watched the program, although I missed the first 5 minutes. To be honest, it was so lightweight, it was practically meaningless. I didn't see Ken either (unless he was using a pseudonym).

The best thing the program did, was keep the ball in the public arena.

I wouldn't bother tagging paedophiles - I'd just keep them in jail!

There have been several 'high profile' paedophiles in the media, one of which only served around 12 years in prison for abducting, drugging, sexually abusing, sharing said abuse with others, then killing a young boy. He got off with manslaughter for crimes that were so obviously premeditated. Why should such a 'creature' ever be free to walk the streets!

My cure (as I've said before)would be free helicopter rides, with the paedophile being 'dropped off' from a great height, at a suitable location (e.g. shark infested ocean / rocky beach etc). Yes I agree, there are differing levels of paedophilia, but the worst deserve no mercy! *And I'm not a violent person.

Do-gooders keep these paedophiles out of prison!

When I went to court, I waited in the Witness House on the first day. There was lots of literature lying around. I picked up a leaflet on prevention of child abuse printed by a very well known child protection agency.

One of the first things I read was: 'Abusers are not monsters'! Well sorry, **** off - they are, and that charity will never receive another donation from me! Protecting children? The first thing they do is excuse the bastards that destroy children. Sorry, but I have absolutely had enough of anyone making excuses for those ********! They have no right to do what they do!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47643 - 07/04/06 10:56 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Ste - just to add, I never even got to speak to the CPS Barrister! That is one of the many things I do not understand. So no, there was no debrief!

The Judge, Defence and Prosecution Barristers all got things completely wrong in the summing up!

You may remember, I complained to Witness Protection, CPS, Crown Recorder, Trial Judge, Attorney General and they all just covered each others backs. I told them exactly why I was complaining, and not one of them answered anything that I asked.

Remember he walked out of court as 'An elderly gentleman answering for indiscretions from long ago'. I am still waiting to meet him in the street (he's obviously in hiding) and tell him exactly what he is! I don't care who hears me - if I get locked up for telling him what he is, then that would make a very good story in the media, when he only got a suspended sentence for multiple grooming and abusing of children because the crimes were historical. The ******* will probably dead before his more recent victims find the courage to come forward!

I don't much care about what the government may be doing in the background, I want to see them do things in reality. Remeber this is the government that signed up wholesale to the European Humans Rights Act, that denies decent citizens their rights whilst giving criminals every right under the sun. Oh, and the Prime Ministers Wife makes a fortune from what - representing human rights cases in court!

Best wishes...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47644 - 07/04/06 11:27 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Rik

Could not agree with you more and it is very true that it would not catch Johnnys dad who had been abusing him for decades and these are the Survivors that need the help and support the most, we know it can take years (if lucky) to disclose, if ever, abuse within the family. can we try and look at it another way what if a young single mum meets a charmng guy at the local watering hole and a long term relationship ensures. (point taken from reality2k4 about not resgistering) it would sure help her and her young child to know in advance if a pervert has wormed his way into their family. I am also approaching this from a grandafthers perspective. I want to know where any threat may be to my grandchildren not only now that they are very young but when they are older too. I also know that the likely hood of them becoming a Survivor is very small as I am sure I would be able to spot the difference in behaviour, but by that time any damage would have been done. I (and us all) know how manipulative and palusable these predators are. Ok maybe I was one of the unlucky ones. Fair enough but I do not want to take any chances with my grandchildrens upbringing (and wellbeing) in anyway, shape or form.

Lets put it this way if any pervert laid a hand on any of my grandchildren, they would not have to lock him up, support his Human Rights, treat him, they would have to bury or cremate him. I dont particularly fancy doing a life stretch as I wish to see my grandchildrn grow up and be part of that. But I would, I know how much damage these actions can do.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47645 - 07/04/06 11:34 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rik,

[QUOTE]I don't much care about what the government may be doing in the background, I want to see them do things in reality. Remeber this is the government that signed up wholesale to the European Humans Rights Act, that denies decent citizens their rights whilst giving criminals every right under the sun. [/QUOTE

Please do not get the human rights act tied up with our laws.
It is every citizens right to challenge English law not just perps.

It is a birthrite and it stops ppl being sent home to be killed, or tortured, but it is a catch all law, but we cannot repeal human rights law, it is impossible to deny human rights.

I cannot get my head around your case, but I think I offered you a submission to the judge.
Dont get me wrong, but the Judge saw you and the others as ordinary guys like he meets in the street.

How can he see the stress and bad things that happen in yr life when you meet a child predator!
But trials in court are just that, they just have to be exported beyond the judiciary.

If the judiciary could fathom the hurt of a kid, historic or not, then they may take a differing view of historical abuse, and the main thing to think about, is that, they can only pass law on the perios it happened.

I guess it had little punishment back then, but your perp will be known for what he did, and he will suffer.

What! Sort of trial by the Crown court can progress to conviction without having access to your counsel, but you must have agreed to the plea bargaining off his counsel.

Sorry Rik, money is more powerful than words right now,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47646 - 07/04/06 11:50 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirk Wayne:
Rik

Could not agree with you more and it is very true that it would not catch Johnnys dad who had been "abusing him for decades" and these are the Survivors that need the help and support the most, we know it can take years (if lucky) to disclose, if ever, abuse within the family.

Can we try and look at it another way as well?

What if a young single mum meets a charmng, financially secure guy at the local watering hole and a long term relationship ensures? Point taken from reality2k4 about not resgistering. It would sure help her and her young child to know in advance if a pervert has wormed his way into their family.

Remember that the Sarahs Law that they are thinking of bringing in will only allow interested parties (and those of good past character ... well bang go my chances of asking) have the info (maybe that will not include perpsective boy/girlfriends), but if someone recognised this offender, they would not be able to disclose the details concerning the future partner of said young lady. If a neighbour said to her, "your new boyfriend is on the SOR" she could (according to Sir John Stevens, ex head of The Met) recieve a very, heavy punishment.

In my experience abusers do not just abuse once I have read that it can be as few (too many)as 8 before they are caught (researchers have obviously not heard of Chris Denning, Jonathan King, Rob Randall and others)and these guys are not in the minority .... we all know that

I am also approaching this from a grandfathers perspective. I want to know where any threat may be to my grandchildrens welfare not only now that they are very young but when they are older too. I also know that the likelyhood of them becoming a Survivor is very small as I am sure I would be able to spot the difference in behaviour, but by that time any damage would have been done. I (and us all) know how manipulative and palusable these predators are.

Ok maybe I was one of the unlucky ones. Fair enough but I do not want to gamble with my grandchildrens upbringing (and physical, emotional & spiritual wellbeing) in any way, shape or form.

Lets put it this way if any pervert laid a hand on any of my grandchildren, they would not have to lock him up, support his Human Rights, treat him or castrate him. They would have to bury or cremate him. I dont particularly fancy doing a life stretch as I wish to see my grandchildren grow up and be part of that. But I would ..........

I know how much damage these perverted crimes can do.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"



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#47647 - 07/04/06 11:57 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
I am not shouting BTW seems my keyboard is stuck on bold......

Obviously corrected itself.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47648 - 07/05/06 12:08 AM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Ste -

Quote "but you must have agreed to the plea bargaining off his counsel"!

What plea bargaining? Again, I am absoultely as unaware of any plea bargaining that may have taken place as the man on the moon?

If anyone told me that plea bargaining had taken place, I can assure you all hell would be let loose! That is just further abuse by the judiciary, and no one would have got my permission for that I can assure you.

I don't understand how I can have had so little involvement in a case that only ever existed, because I complained to the police! They identified that there was a serious problem, both due to listening to my initial complaint, and then taking out a recognition exercise in 2004! They were so concerned in 2004 after taking out the recognition exercise, that they wanted my full statement immediately! In court 'there is no evidence of any crime being committed after 1977' (mine was 1969). BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT and again as many times as you like!

I've mentioned before, that if historical crimes receive historical sentences, then someone in our country should be getting hung pretty soon! Hanging may be abolished, but if hanging was the sentence for the crime when it was committed, then that would be the sentence now! Spot the precedent! The law disappears up its own ****, and cannot even defend itself! I may be a common layman, but I can spot all these injustices that educated idiots seem to have such a problem with!

The only way that the judiciary and government ever seem to wake up to reality, is when that reality strikes close to home! Hence, recently an MP that was burgled decides that we should all be entitled to keep tazer guns in our homes!

The sort of human rights that I disagree with, are 'creatures' serving life sentences for crimes against humanity, that are given libraries in their cells, given private gymnasiums, given free porn. Given a right to a private / family life. Given a right to go unhindered. Given all of those rights when they have denied others those rights. Yes there are aspects of the human rights laws that protect those that need protection, but I am sure you must be aware of the money that is made by lawyers in this country protecting (using those human rights laws) those that deserve less than zero protection. Rights are one thing, but no rights without responsibility!


Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47649 - 07/05/06 09:56 AM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kirk,

firstly, we should not be driven by the media, hysteria that is kicked up and kicked down our throats day in day out.

Then we get the public baying for blood from the Government that has done nothing positive about perps for as long as I can remember.

Knee jerk reaction is not the way to go, I have tossed this around in my head for so long, and cannot really come up with anything suitable to help kids tell.

Politicians are not going to come up with an answer, they cause the hysteria in the first place, and now they are caught up in something they cannot crawl out of.

Rik, your case totally baffled me, the plea bargain is done by him admitting to guilt, and not have to put a jury through a trial.

But he did put the plaintiffs through hurt by subsequent denials in the court.
In Liverpool he would have almost certainly gone down.

A judge cannot see inside you, he doesnt and cannot share your hurt on the matter.
He would rather think, Oh! These guys should have got over it by now.

Maybe, you could start by teaching them, what it really is like to be a victim of historic abuse.
You should also tell them that abusers never just stop doing it at a certain time or age.

Then we come to the sexist element which tells us that boys dont get hurt!
Demand a debriefing off that barrister, and ask him why he did not feel that an appeal was in order.

Those are some of the questions I would be asking, but anyhow you have wounded the perp pretty bad,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47650 - 07/05/06 10:56 AM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Ste

With all due respect if it was not for the media we would not know the extent of CSA in the UK, remember the seventies? CSA did not happen and very rarely was it reported. If we were at this point (with it being seriously discussed by the powers that be) during those dark days of denial by the authorities would we not be further down the road as what to do with sexual predators?

"Then we get the public baying for blood from the Government that has done nothing positive about perps for as long as I can remember".

Completely agree and it is through the public pressure brought about by the tabloids that the government appear (a big word that) to be doing something .... and that has got to be better than doing nothing. Do you really think single lobbying would spur our leaders into action? I very much doubt it somehow.

As to plea bargaining of course it does go on, my abuser Randall held his hand up to a more recent assault (under the advice from his defence team) to stop me getting into the witness box and by my evidence linking him with King, Denning, the Walton Hop et al. He got five years on the SOR and a 300 fine and still no justice for me by not being able to tell the world in open court what this pervert did to me.

Kirk

"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47651 - 07/05/06 11:43 AM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kirk,

all the media are doing is spurring the Government to put a small plaster on a pretty much cancerous growth.

You talk earlier about being able to spot the signs, so can I, and everyone in this place.
The ones who matter eg, parents, teachers, doctors would not have a clue.

Social workers who find it, have nowhere to send the kid for help, nor do doctors.
When abuse is reported, a kid or even adult, should be assessed by a specialist team and given the right treatment.

Dont blame the judges too harshly, they are given guidelines by the Government on sentencing, unless you havent paid your taxes, which is an automatic jail sentence.

Colin Inglis would still be covered up, if not for our friend who demanded his head.
He was reported in teh Mail as a councillor, not head of police authority as I remember.

He was the one who blew up the pedo ring operating in Yorkshire schools if I remember rightly.
Now he is pleading Not Guilty, at Leeds CC, not Hull where he lives.

You know his background only too well, and I am watching this baby pretty closely, and will be very interested in how well the media publish his 'real' background.

Keep track on that one,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47652 - 07/05/06 01:10 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Ste

"Social workers who find it, have nowhere to send the kid for help, nor do doctors.
When abuse is reported, a kid or even adult, should be assessed by a specialist team and given the right treatment."

Absoloutly and that is why I am going to push this subject as hard as I can at this meeting next week, there are people in government who really do understand the problem, Professor Catherine Itzin who is heading the VVAPP is a survivor herself. These are the people in the background beavering away for positive change and that positive change has been powered by the publics response to the tabloids, if it was not for the tabloids our politician would be even more removed from "Real Life" than they already are. as my local MP said to me when I met with him just before christmas I quote "I did not realise how problematic CSA was". I then asked him if we was aware of any MPs that had suffered CSA in their childhood, his repose to that was "I doubt very much if they would talk about that" "exactly" I replied and then it hit him like a ton of bricks ...... a moment of supreme enlightenment

Colin Inglis, yes I am watching how this progresses.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47653 - 07/05/06 01:42 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kirk,

if you can get anything positive, that is the main point that help is there at source.
That alone would save many kids turning into criminals or worse.

They are training 750 CBT therapists, but it will take 7 years to train them, a small step into the future, but necessary.

I have just posted an interesting article on Inglis in news.
Significantly, this has been covered up by those, high up in the police force, maybe even as far as ministerial level.

This perv would not be on trial without Phoenix demanding a trial.
How? can we trust a Government that goes on covering up organised pedo rings???

Thats my 0.02 cents,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47654 - 07/05/06 04:32 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Becuase no doubt there are paedophiles within the Westminster Village, thats why Blair slamed D notices on one minsiter and one ex minister that were caught up in Operation Ore. There are thousands that work within government around Westminster just by the law of averages there must be some perps in there somewhere. They are in every other walk of life why not politics.

Looking and reading about Counsellor Inglis gives me the creeps.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47655 - 07/05/06 06:41 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Inglis is still on trial tomorrow, I wish I could take the coach to just stare at it, in the box.

That would be something for him to remember.

Perps go for high up jobs, because they can be protected from the top.
How about a public enquiry into yet another coverup by authorities.

How can you or I trust a Government that continually hides them right the way down the ranks.

The biggest cover up, is us, the ones who have been through it, with NO help!

I await the media response to this little pile of sh*t,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47656 - 07/05/06 07:26 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Ste - you are right, a judge cannot see inside of me!

What I can say is that the Witness protection Officers, CPS, The Honorary Judical Recorder, The Trial Judge, The Attorney Generals Office, several cronies of the Judiciary that answered my letters because the Judiciary didn't have the guts to do so themselves, and several additional members of the police force know exactly how I feel! As you can see, I am no longer the type to keep quiet - reamaining silent did me no favours whatsoever!

I tried to educate every single one of the above, that perps do not stop! They were obviously so ashamed that a common ignoramus such as myself told them that the perp was still using the same modus operandi in 2004 (they didn't have to look far for that information, as it was right in front of them), whilst they were claiming 'no proof of any further crimes since 1977. I shamed them by stating that The Prosecution had already claimed 'similar behavior' in court, in January, thus allowing a 3rd witness statement to be used as evidence!

That's why I received very poor responses to my letters, because they could not answer any of my questions, neither could they fault my observations! By pointing out the facts of the case, I basically (politely) told them that they were rubbish at there jobs!

I have zero respect for the Judiciary (including the Attorney General), and there is little that they can now do to change my view.

Kirk - make sure when you go to the WAPP meeting next week, you tell it how it is! Don't let anyone try to shut you up! Hope you make good progress!

Best wishes ....Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47657 - 07/05/06 08:45 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rik,

you can pay for a copy of the minutes of the court case, and maybe between three, it would be worth having.

Ask the court officer to give you the address of whoever does the court minutes.

Obviously from what you say, the court had not taken into account his recent behaviour, and may for some reason found it unproved.

The CPS should be on the cartoon network, the biggest f*cker uppers on this planet.
Time and time again they get chided by judges over ludicrous cases they put before the judiciary.

They should have their own internet site for us to laugh at the things they get up to.

We were all hurt by this lack of sentence, not just you guys.
It should be compulsory for all agencies to visit this site for a week.

Not many would walk so easily after that, providing they could stomach it.

Just a note on the AG, I asked him to review sentencing on Denning, on the grounds that he was a known perp who had until recently been head of a pedo ring.

Not a chance, he still upheld teh decision of four years for historic abuse.
But, no doubt they will be keeping a close watch on him when he gets out.

One final note, a 29yo from Bolton, has just been jailed for life indefinitely .
He was identified by a tattoo, on an abuse video circulating on the net.

What a catch,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47658 - 07/05/06 10:43 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Ste - I already have the adress for the summative minutes and could reasonably pay the 70 expected cost. I just believe that there are better things I can do with the money.

I am still collecting toys for deprived kids for Christmas! I am buying something every month! I think that I am better off spending money on that, because it will actually do some good!

I'll keep hammering away at the media, because that is the best way I can vent at present!

Maybe someday in the future I'll end up on Richard & Judy...they would probably listen! They've done quite well with their book club, by getting people interested in reading (another suggestion for the Authors on this site). Maybe they would get the public interested in the realities of abuse. Maybe that would put more pressure on the judicial process!

I know that I am a fighter now (maybe I always was). I've fought a few battles, I just need to realise what my strategy is going forward. If I am to be forever bogged down by this, then I will not have won. There's an arena out there just waiting to be used.. it's just getting the right admission ticket to get in there and get the ball rolling!

As children, we deserved so much more! Somehow, we need to ensure that the next generation does not suffer as we have!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47659 - 07/05/06 11:09 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rik,

I know its too late now, but if you had me there, I would have taken it up with the appropriate authorites, and believe me, I know how to write letters that they cannot deny.

I lost one court case in the many that I did, but expected that outcome.
You must also have the strength to find the best way forward to keep yr mind safe.

If you pay the 70 it may be worth it, maybe not, but you certainly might regret it.
I too give the kids a teddy at Christmas, what a cool thing to do.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47660 - 07/05/06 11:56 PM Re: For our Brit friends
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rik,

I know I seem like some armchair barrister sometimes, I am just me, and how I think, and how I wouuld present a case before a judge.

Sadly, for you and friends, it was possible to give him a light sentence for his deeds.
The CPS got it wrong yet again, silly old them.

Sadly, you could not have applied for the judges directions, something you may think about!
They will be in the court documents if you specifically apply as plaintiff to the defendent, that you require the sentencing options, as to the said court Judge.

Hey! I am totally mystefied by the judicial outcome of this case.
I cannot even for the life of me, wonder just how a boys life is thrown away like nothing happen.

Judges cannot tell what you went thru' nobody can, but you tell the judge the truth in how he hurt you?

Did you put those mitigating cirmumstances into the prosecution? I guess not.
You should have been given that opportunity on disclore before the trial began.

If you can give the judge a case on how it has affected you over all yr life, he is ore likely to impose a sentence fitting to the crime.

How many of us could scream out at a judge and asy, hey, you never even been there, but I have.
And if you fancy a one-way trip thru Hell, then go ahead.

Sorry for the rant,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#47661 - 07/06/06 02:57 PM Re: For our Brit friends
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
As you both know I am attending a meeting next week at the Department of Health. Could i ask you is there anything specific you would like me to ask or put forward? I will be taking along some of the postings from you both (and any other brits frequenting this message board) on this board if that is agreeable to each of you.

I am not taking part in this just for my benefit but for those that are to unfortunately follow, so thinking caps on guys and let me have your comments either on here or by PM.

Cheers

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#47662 - 07/07/06 10:20 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Kirk - you can use any post that I have ever made here!

I hope you received the return copy of the questionnaire & that it was some good!

What I would request that you raise, is the total inability of anyone in the Judiciary, Health Organisations, Charitable Organisations, CPS etc to realise the real impact that paedophiles have! I have mentioned some of these issues in the questionnaire!

1/ Doctors - after walking into my doctor's surgery in the midst of a breakdown, a - he did not even realise that I was having a breakdown. b - he was totally out of his depth in knowing how to react when I told him why I was there (events from 34 years previous). c - he asked me if I was OK after talking to him for 5 minutes (oh yes I'll just go and top myself thanks, I feel wonderful). d - psychological support is practically none existant. I was offered referal to a Clinical Psychologist & waited 3 months for an appointment to come through, 6 further months for the actual appointment! How many people die on these waiting lists because they cannot cope? I was saved by my employer - most employers would probably just sack someone in a similar state to what I was.

It may be the department of health, but surely there must be some influence on the rest of government & therefore the judiciary. What needs to happen when an abuse survivor comes forward, and makes a statement, is that they should receive frequent updates about what is happening.

They should be made aware of relevant local support services / help groups, or at least told there aren't any.

Witness Support (police) - I was allocated an officer that was supposed to keep me informed of case developments. He went sick. They replaced him with someone else. He went sick. Got a third one that was reasonably OK. Most of the time (15 months) leading up to the actual first day in court, I had to ring Detectives and other contacts within the police that I made myself, to get any sort of update. I was going mental, and hardly anyone was telling me what was happening!


I received more communication from members of the police force that were not directly dealing with the case, than I did from anyone else. They were actually concerned about me, and really glad that I had found the courage to come forward and nail the pervert.

The CPS never contacted me before the first day in court! I consider that to be like going into war with a rifle that haas never been tested - how did they know I would not backfire on them.

I never got to speak to the prosecution barrister before, during or after the case - why not?
I was just a statistic to the judicial system! Once they had my statement no one directly asked me for my opinions of what should happen in court.

I was just a statistic during the wholly inaccurate summing up! It was so atrocious that there were more wrongly stated facts during the summing up.

There should be a written national policy that dictates exactly what communication should take place between Complainant / Witness / Protection / CPS and Prosecution Barrister. This should be written out in a formal document, and presented to the complainant at the time of making a statement. That would alleviate a lot of fear of the unknown for the complainant. The complainant and Witness Protection should review the document at e.g. monthly intervals. If you want witnesses to come forward, if you really want to extinguish paedophiles, then you must support the complaiants. They are raising statements regarding events that are the last taboo in society - it is not easy to do so!

Best wishes...Rik

*PS - any suggestions for burning off a few mega watts of energy?

Mitigating circumstances that are stated in court, are not mitigating circumstances. The judge did not state if he had taken into account, so called mitigating circumstances, which included:

*My parents are dead.
*I may loose my housing association home if I go to prison.
*I would suffer without my medication.
None of the above is a mitigating circumstance and the judge should have said so.

The Judge should loose his job for allowing the Defence Barrister to say: 'He's an elderly gentleman answering for indiscretions from long ago!' without challenging the statement. This is the main reason that I now have more problems in my mind than before I went to court. This is why I am devloping social phobia, because I trusted the whole process when I took this to court. Instead of being rewarded fro that trust, I now know that I was not abused by a multiple grooming, multiple abusing paedophile, it was just some indiscretions that a gentleman shared with me! I don't know whre my mind will end up with this one, because the more I try to forget it, the more I try to convince myself it's only words, the more I know that I was totally failed by the official system. Tell me what message does that send out to Survivors? Do you really want people to seek their own justice! I would not condemn anyone for doing so!
Please take my comments, and if they have any specific questions they would like to ask me, I will answer any that I consider relevant.

The main thing they need to know is that I was let down as a kid. The kid thought he had found a voice. The people that he thought had ears didn't really! The kid is still angry,because the People in Authority didn't really listen to him after all - just another form of abuse again in court! What did he really expect? How does that kid now how vent his anger as he cannot take out on others, so the adrenalin just builds and builds! Will it eventually drive him completely mad?

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#47663 - 07/07/06 10:24 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Bit of a hiccup with cut & paste there, but the content is all there!

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#47664 - 07/09/06 11:51 PM Re: For our Brit friends
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I just wish that I could really believe that someone that represented either side, or even the 'independant judge' in that courtroom had actually read my statement and fully understood it!

I really wish that my biggest fear had come true, and that I had been forced to appear in the witnesss box. That would at least have given me the opportunity to say exactly what abuse had taken place, and what impact it had! The perv pleaded guilty at the last moment (first day of trial...late afternoon...we were there from 09:30 am) because the judge was going to allow a 3rd persons evidence to be used to show 'similar behaviour'. The perv did not want to have the details 'argued' in court. I was openly sobbing on my way out of court, and all the way home, because the bastard had finally admitted what he had done!

I can't tell you what relief I felt at this point.... it was like all my doubts, all my worries had been justified. It took a couple of days (well about 9/10), and I actually started to feel good...something I hadn't felt for a very long time!

We went back to court a couple of weeks later to hear what the sentence would be! Proceedings were slow again that day, and I was in the witness house again (as I had been on the original trial date). Rumour came across that the perv was trying to withdraw his plea! I couldn't believe it (no I'm not Victor Meldrew). We finally got the bastard in front of the Judge at around 17:15 (the judge worked back). The judge came out with some comment that declared the pervs request for a plea withdrawal as invalid. Again, I felt some sort of elation...but it wasn't a high, because we had to go back to court again (the Judge didn't want to make a quick decision on the sentence, because he needed time to think and achieve the correct result! I sat there for 7 hours and 15 minutes, not knowing if it was over (similar to the first day...if you haven't been there, you don't know what that feels like), believing that it was going to trial after thinking it was over on the first day in court. Was the bastard torturing me or what? Could the judiciary see that? Did they ****ing care? No they did not - 'Mr Fowler' you did plead guilty! Maybe you did then you tried to withdraw that plea - why should you be given any consideration for a guilty plea?????

What a ****ing joke! If that is the best the judge can come up with after thinking about it...he wants to stop thinking....armed with another brain cell, he'd be completely dangerous!

Sorry if this sounds like a rant again. If you met me in reality, I am the most easy going person on the planet, but paedophiles just make my teeth want to rip!


The Perv
To know what the bastard had done, people would have had to read my statement (9 pages of A4 when typed...many more in the original hand written version. A4 usually averages around 300-350 words per page when typed...standard font / typical vocabulary.

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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