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#471135 - 10/12/14 07:47 AM Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 205
Last night or should I say it is still tonight I did not sleep. Thoughts and memories rushed through my mind. I could not stop them. My wife held me most of the time. She dozed off so I thought Iíd leave and write my thoughts. She has been so good, kind and loving.

This week my sister and I have a group session with Mama. I have been trying to understand the teacher priest who raped me and everything that has happened in my family. I have learned we were an enmeshed family, Mamaís control and inability to set boundaries with her own mother and sisters and brothers caused much damage to us. Someone said an enmeshed family is like everyone is part of the whole and not individual slices. They found strength in numbers and fused together and their individual needs were sacrificed. We Mamaís children and Dad, her then husband were lost to Mamaís fused family. We were second class to them. Mama then enmeshed us in her war, fusing us with her and disposing of Dad. Mama and her family rationalized what was done to Dad and we were the pawns to carry out the deeds to ensure we were fused with Mama and her family. During Mamaís absence to satisfy her family I was abused by the teacher priest. I cannot separate this abuse from what Mama did by leaving us to satisfy her mother, sisters and brothers. She did not need to leave.

I have been talking to my doctors and counselor about enmeshment. I understand what happened and have great fears of facing Mama in the group session this week. I know Mama needs to hear everything so she can fully admit what happened. This is the only way she can save my brother who is struggling. The doctors say the worst is to come for him. When he begins to accept what happened they say he will have extreme guilt, rage and anger at Mama and guilt and shame for what he did to Dad. He will then fear the loss of father he never allowed in his life because of Mama. He will ultimately have to forgive himself. I am scared for him.

Tonight thoughts of the meeting caused me to relive what happened. I could hear Mama screaming at Dad telling him he will be alone and the children will always be with her, I can see her laughing as my brother threw hot oatmeal on Dad and then screaming at Dad to clean it up, her laughing as we locked Dad out of the house and he had to sleep in the car in the garage, I can see her smiling as my brother threw Dadís work reports all of the office and screaming at Dad it was his fault my brother did this, I can see Mama crying saying how bad she was treated by Dad while this was going on, and we bought into her game. This went on over and over, we would all start screaming at Dad, pointing our fingers at him and we all laughed, swore and screamed at him. I see my abuser there, laughing and I guess knowing I needed love and he kept telling me over and over that he loved me not those maniacs in the house. He knew Mama left and how did he know what happened when Mama returned. I see Dad asking for help and Mama laughing or ignoring him and telling him she needs this or that. She would tell us Dad wanted help and we would all laugh at him. Dad told Mama we all needed help and we all laughed at that. Mama shared everything Dad said to her with us. She also told us about their sex life. We laughed because she said it was pathetic. I remember hearing her say if we can pay that for the children I deserve this or that. Why did we not see it was about her and not us or Dad? Everything seems so vivid so many more memories and words. My abusers words were mixing with what Mama said. I see Dad taking Mama to doctors and her telling us she is not well and may die. Dad was the kind one and he took her and never complained. She did not appreciate what he did. I know she used all these doctor visits to scare us into loving us, making us fear she would leave again. How sick and I bought into it. She used me against my Dad.

I had to leave the bedroom because I could hear Mama telling us when Dad left after the divorce if he was a good father he would take care of all of us. We were all of legal age and still expected him to pay for everything after all the bad things we did to him. Mama convinced us it was still his responsibility and when he did not he was a louse. We did not know he was hospitalized for some time months after the divorce. I now know never feed those that abuse you because they will only continue to abuse you. Dad did right.

The last thing I remember hearing Mama screaming over the phone I could not go to the hospital to see Dad on his deathbed less than a year ago. I wanted to go and now realize the control she had over me and how it was to hurt Dad. I will never see or hear from him again. I have so much guilt.
I am scared to confront Mama in these sessions. My sister who underwent psychoanalysis as part of her recovery from alcohol is ready to go in. She has a long written list of what she remembers and she has blank periods due to the alcohol. I should put my memories in an orderly list but I am afraid to. What I have listed here is just a sample of what was done to Dad.

My doctor said I need to face Mama. Facing Mama will open the buried wounds of my childhood. Not only will it allow me face what Mama and her family did to our family it will allow me to face the sexual abuse more openly. He has said I lack emotion when I talk about the sexual abuse even though I sometimes cry. He said it is so wrapped in the enmeshment that I cannot tell where the different abuses began and end. I had saying Mama used guilt and emotions to abuse us. But she did and we then used abuse to drive Dad away.
I am exhausted and afraid to try to sleep. I do not want to see and hear everything that happened over and over. It will not stop when I shut my eyes. This sucks, I did not start this, I did not hurt the children, I tried to be good and listen to Mama and the teacher. Why did they take Mama away to Chicago and leave us and how did the teacher know I was lonely. This started the mess. I need to talk to my sister and wife. They know how to comfort me but I do not want to wake them. They have been through so much. I have to make it to Friday and then the first meeting with Mama will be over. Maybe my sister will talk the whole time.

The memories and sounds seem so real hen this happens. I feel like the child I was when this was going on. It is so painful and sad at the same time. I keep asking why and I guess that will never be answered.

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#471143 - 10/12/14 10:07 AM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
manipulated Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/14
Posts: 64
Loc: Great Lakes Wine Country
Sorryson
Your words show your strength. You can and will get through this. You are doing what us best for you, your wife and siblings. Prayers for all of you this week.
_________________________
Feeling, Healing, Recovering.

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#471186 - 10/13/14 05:58 PM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1988
P

When I read you posts I feel your pain. You will make it through the meeting with your mother. It sounds as though your mother has accepted parts of the past. You have the strength and your emotions are now your emotions and not of those that were controlled, manipulated or push on you. You have shown the past can be fast with openness and honesty. Just relax and remember your sister is there with you.

If you do not mind I have a question for you. I was wondering what you believed and felt in the years between when the troubles began with your family and father and his passing. I also was wondering what made you realize the damage that was done to your father. There are many others in this situation.

Thank you

Kevin


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#471235 - 10/14/14 01:26 PM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
Rich1967 Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 348
Loc: PA
Sorryson,

I am impressed with your comprehension of what's going on. It sounds like you have a good support team getting you to and through these tough situations. That is so key I think.

I wish you all the best in what is to come. In these types of circumstances I always like to think that the more painful it is the more I will have learned by the time I get to the other side and nothing is going to keep me from betting to the other side.

Your community of brothers is hear for you.
_________________________
Rich

"Me too" - I don't think I will ever get tired of saying or hearing these two words.

My Story:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441625#Post441625

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#471254 - 10/14/14 09:52 PM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: KMCINVA]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 205
Kevin I have been thinking about your question. What was life like for me until I realized what was done to Dad was wrong and my anger was misdirected at the wrong person? It is a difficult question to answer. I had buried another secret my own sexual abuse. So I am not sure which caused the unhappiness. I do believe both played a major role in my view of myself. I remember one day many years ago being out with friends and we were joking about our parents. I told them I did not talk to my Dad. I thought what we did to Dad was funny so I started to tell them some of the ďcrazyĒ things we did to him. I remember their faces when I told them a few of the things. I slowly stopped. One of my friends said, if that was done to me I would have been out of there like a bat in hell. Another said how sick is my family? I tried to change the subject by saying only joking. I do not think it worked. I never told anyone else what we did. You know what we did to Dad and you lived pretty much the same things is only done by people who have emotional or mental issues. I would call and leave angry messages on Dadís answering machine. I do not remember everything I said but I know it was spiteful and only screamed of what he had done. I took every opportunity to put him down. I was unhappy and needed to blame someone. I blamed the wrong person. I was battling the memories of my abuse throughout my life and Mama and her family had me wound so tight I could not think. My wife tried to tell me to be kind to Dad and of course I did not listen. My wife always said Mama had too much influence over me.

I was thinking if I had known Dad had been sexual abused would I have acted differently. I would like to think I would have been kinder. Honestly, I think it would not have made a difference. The hold Mama had on us was so strong.

I talked to my sister about your question. She said she was a very unhappy person and followed Mamaís lead. She said she went to live in Chicago to try to be closer to Mama, live where she had and her mother lived. She gave up her dream of being an international lawyer so she could live in Mamaís hometown. She said at first it was great, she felt good. She could call Mama and they could talk about the people who lived there and Mama knew from her childhood. They would talk for hours, laughing and making fun of the people. She also would see the aunts and uncles. She said she started to become like them. Making fun of everyone and putting other people down. She said they reinforced Mamaís views on how horrible Dad was. She did not speak to Dad and sent him angry letters. She remembers how one of the aunts would do things for people then turn around and brutally tear them apart. The aunt would say they never appreciated all she did. My sister said she did the same thing to Dad and he was the one who did most things for us. Sadly, my sisterís unhappiness grew and grew. She drank more and more. Finally after almost 8 years she said she was so unhappy and her drinking was out of control. She went to AA and slowly started to recover. She had a few slips. She said she was still unhappy as she stopped drinking. She moved back to the hometown. She told me she knew the drinking was hiding her unhappiness. She could not figure out why she was unhappy. She started psychoanalysis. It took almost two years before the breakthrough. She was emotionally impacted years ago by Mamaís leaving to take care of grandma. She felt abandoned and never wanted to lose her again. She learned she would do anything to keep Mama there. I think we all have feelings of abandonment and could not admit it. This started the cycle of Mama being able to control her and use her and the rest of us against Dad. She knew she had to make amends with Dad. They met and he asked him to come to a session so they could try to make things work. She told me, and I never knew this, she asked Mama to come to another session and she refused. My sister got happy and she and Dad became very close. Mama never forgave her for getting back together with Dad. I think Mama has finally realized she was wrong.

When my sister learned of Dadís abuse she said she felt horrible for what she did to Dad when he was struggling. She did not know. I asked her if she would have treated Dad differently if she had known of his sexual abuse. She laughed, her doctor often asked her this question. She said she hoped she would have been a loving daughter. She said she never came to a solid answer to the question. She told me Dad said to her you did not know and what happened we cannot change. She said she cried and Dad held her.

I know your children know about your sexual abuse and they still are not kind or loving children. They have chosen to believe those who do not know anything about trauma and sexual abuse. Even my mother after talking to the experts who reviewed Dadís medical reports now believes he was telling the truth, he did not know what happened. If one with a stubborn streak as long as Texas can finally see there are psychological and now better understood evidence for what happened to Dad can believe educated children should be able to understand. They should speak with experts. I hope they realize what they have done and are doing is unhealthy for them. When a parent controls a child sometimes no matter what they know or learn they will blindly follow and protect the controlling parent. I can tell you we were not loving and grateful children to Dad. He did much for us but reaped all the blame. We just wanted Mama to love us and not leave us anymore. But she did. When grandpa was sick she went to take care of him. They whole crew was still there and Mama would receive the calls to get there. She went like usual. Grandpa told her to get the hell out of there and get home. I think he knew the damage that was done to the family over the years. Mama would not listen and her sisters and brothers demanded she stay. Of course she stayed away from us.

It seems your children are suffering in many of the ways we did. You mentioned one child has been through rehab and I hope he/she took the next steps to find out what her unhappiness that led to his/her addiction, you mentioned a child who never left the house other than school, sounds like my brother who basically is a shut-in, they ignore or taunt you with insults, they are unhappy and angry people. Like us their anger is probably misdirected. I would love to shake each of them and tell them get help and not let their world fall apart like it has for my brother and me in our 50ís. My sister was the smart one and is a testament to what life can be once you face your past and the emotional issues we are left with. She got to know Dad and had a wonderful relationship with him. I would tell them I feel like a real shit for the way I treated my Dad because what I thought was not real but what I was pushed to believe.

As you can see we had much unhappiness in life, dreams were shattered or robbed from us. We had problems. I did think of Dad every so often but never could I say sorry or I miss you. I feel sorry for your children, they have an opportunity to make themselves happy by getting help. Anger and hate does not allow one to be happy. I know that and my sister learned it after she nearly destroyed her life. She is one of the happiest people, engaged and involved. She was not this way until she went through her analysis, she was a sleeper, complainer and had few friends who would come and go. Now she has a great circle of true friends. And my brother has never been happy and he nearly took his own life. Yes the bitterness, anger, control of one parent over children to hurt the other left us with many problem and issues to deal with. I should have been a grateful son but instead I was a total ingrate. I recently made a list of everything Dad did for us and realized it was a long list. Everything he did was forgotten and that was wrong of me. One thing I remember he never asked for a thank you and really he never expected one. Mama sure did and if we did not give a thank you we heard about it.

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#471255 - 10/14/14 09:55 PM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: Rich1967]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 205
Rich1967 thank you for the support, I am fearful of the meeting. Mama always has a way of making me feel guilty. The cold shoulder, turning her eyes away from us pretending we do not exist. I see Mama was very immature and would act like a baby. Pout and slam doors. The cold shoulder. She did it to Dad all the time. If she was mad at us, she would say I am not talking to you and turn her head away. Then we would hear how she would never do this or that to her mother. Well we now know why, she was controlled by her mother and this did not allow her to stand up to her mother, brothers and sisters. Instead she walked away from Dad and us to keep them happy. I dread the thought of sitting in a meeting with Mama and seeing her closed expressions and refusing to look at us. I would always feel bad and apologize to her. When she did it to Dad we all sided with Mama. I just need to stay with myself and maybe with everything that has happened she will not resort to her baby tactics. Then her sisters were the same way and they could be tyrants and no one would want to speak back to them. Their facial expressions showed meanness and bitter anger. But they would tell everyone else off if they did not like the way they were acting. It sends shivers up my spine thinking of Mama and how her sisters treated others, poor Dad was too many times their target. I told my sister, she is a rock of Gibraltar now since she went through the process of healing so many years ago. I am glad she will be there.

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#471270 - 10/15/14 07:55 AM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1988
P

I did not expect so much. Thank you for sharing. It sounds as though you understand the issues involved and what you must do to help yourself. Your sister seems to be a valuable resource to you. She can share how she healed, the issues she overcame and most importantly is there to support you. Sadly, from what I have seen and learned family situations can sometimes be overwhelming to a child. The loss or absence of a parent has a profound impact on a child. People often dismiss the impact and for some children it lasts a lifetime. I am sorry you are dealing with several issues at one time. As Rich1967 said you have a great support system with your wife, sister and children.

As I read your words I could see the pain in the face of others who have yet to face the past. I hear and read their words and sense their issues are deeper than they wish to accept. I want them to be happy and fulfilled. I have learned only they can decide it is time to heal and live life to the fullest. Your sister sounds remarkable, overcoming much and now as you said the Rock of Gibraltar. I wish you well.

From what you have told, your mother appears to be facing the past and has admitted she was wrong. She visited the cemetery to tell your father she was sorry and is undergoing her own therapy. I understand your fears about the meeting, people can retreat to their old ways. You now know what her childish antics were and how they controlled you. Knowing is half the battle. I hope the session is productive because I understand you and your sister are the first and then your brother sometime later.

I admire your courage and tenacity to move forward.

Kevin

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#471350 - 10/17/14 09:55 AM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1988
P

I do not know why but it hit me today you have your meeting. Good luck and I wish you the best. Hopefully it will be productive and help move everyone to a better place in their lives. Do not be fearful because you are doing what is right for you.

Kevin

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#471369 - 10/18/14 09:20 AM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 205
We had the session yesterday. My head has been spinning since I left. I told my wife what happened and all she could do was smile, trying to hold back the laughter, I think. She knows my family so well.

It started out cordial and civil in the waiting room. We were like a family. We were called in and the doctor is soft spoken and very articulate. He gave us the ground rules of respecting each other and when one was speaking the others were to listen and not interrupt. All sounded good but knowing Mama she would not be able to follow these rules.

I asked how this was going to help my brother. The doctor said we need to explore what caused my brother to have these negative emotions and feelings. The doctor said he believes it lies in his childhood. My sister said doctor you know what we did to Dad and asked could these acts and words contributed to his emotions. The doctor said yes but it was more important to understand why he did the acts of mistreatment toward his father. The doctor told us my brother has moments of remorse for what he did and not having a relationship with his father. The doctor said your brother was conditioned and we need to understand the conditioning and why the conditioning happened. The doctor said we all are conditioned and each child can react differently to the exact same conditioning. Parents condition children based on how they were conditioned. Parents believe this is love, for some children it is and for others it is harmful. My sister looked at Mama and Mamaís face was stone cold. The doctor said we also need to explore Dad and how Dadís sexual abuse as a child impacted the family and him. He said we will discuss what Dad did during his periods of dissociation. The doctor said it is his conclusion from the medical reports Dad suffered from dissociative events. He said we will also need to explore how the acts and words your father experienced in the home impacted his dissociation. My sister started to cry, she said I know how it did. We could have killed him she said. The doctor said we cannot look at what-ifís or outcomes that did not happen.

Well we started with a simple question, who wishes to go first. My sister said she would start. She started by talking about our brother and the reasons she believed he is suffering and why he nearly took his life. Mama looked attentive until my sister said most of our lives changed when Mama left us as children while Dad was recovering from a heart attack. Mamaís face changed, the pouting look surfaced and she turned her head away. I thought since she apologized for what had happened she would not be upset. I was wrong. My sister did not hold back and told her she looked exactly like grandma all those times with grandpa. Mama shouted back her mother was good. Well my sister let loose with all the times grandma would start whimpering when she and grandpa would argue. She rattle off all the times she remembered grandpa doing what he was told to do and grandma found something wrong or grandpa did not listen and everything was ruined. She said grandma would make sure Mama and her brothers and sisters heard it all. Everyone would run to grandma and she would smile and say sorry grandpa ruined the evening. My sister said she now knows grandma ruined the evening and told Mama she did the same thing all the time and we blamed Dad. It got heated, Mama saying she loved us so much and my sister telling her you did not have to leave to take care of grandma and rattled off the aunts and uncles and grandpa who lived right there. Mama said I had to she was so good to me. My sister went into unforeseen territory. Right she treated grandpa like a second class citizen. Mama argued with her. My sister yelled that is why grandma slept with her old fiancť quilt at the bottom of hers and grandpaís bed. Mama asked my sister how she knew about the quilt. She said she heard Mama and her sisters talking about it. She said none of the daughters thought it was wrong. I should have kept my mouth shut but I did not. I asked Mama did you have anything like this with Dad. Mama looked at me in silence. My sister said to Mama, you tell him or I will. Mama was silent. I learned the crucifix above Mama and Dadís bed was from an old boyfriend who died in a car accident. I was sick hearing this. How could two women have things from old boyfriends in the bedroom and see nothing wrong? It started to explain why they felt comfortable using their children to make fun of their father. They always had another love.

The doctor was taken back of hearing about these objects. He asked Mama did she see anything wrong with retaining sentimental pieces from prior relationship in the room that is supposedly the sanctuary of a married couple. Mama was silent until she said they were nice things. He asked her, how would Mama have felt if her father had done that to her mother or her husband had brought something sentimental into the marriage bed? Mama was silent and finally started to cry. My sister said stop it, it does not work anymore. The doctor calmed my sister. My sister was not done. She also told Mama her mother told her daughters she should have married the man who gave her the quilt and not their father. She said she thought it was so weird then but now realizes they were raised in a family where the father was second class to memories and their mother and her family.

I was hoping for a turn in the discussion. Well it did. The doctor asked how I felt about all I heard. I said I was shocked and hurt. Why hurt? Well now I know Mama learned the father was not important or first in her motherís eyes because she had another manís quilt in the bedroom. I guess that is all Mama knew and that is why she treated Dad the way she did. I said I was mad because I was one of her pawns in this game her mother created with her brothers and sisters and Mama learned it so well. Mama was the lowest ranking in her family. They used her and she responded without defending Dad or us. I said I now feel betrayed and know she left us to keep them happy.

The doctor asked Mama if she saw anything that may have influenced her to believe the mother was the center and the father stood behind her mother, sisters and brothers. Mama reluctantly said maybe. He told Mama she needed to explore how her mother interacted with her father and her family. He also asked Mama did her father feel pushed away because her mother put her siblings before him. Mama said we loved our father he was always there. He asked was he pushed from events and being part of the family because of words or actions that he found offensive and others laughed at. Mama said her father was a serious person and did not laugh. My sister jumped in and said to push people away happens but not when it happens over and over it is emotional abuse. My sister said you did it to grandpa and then Dad. The doctor jumped in and said letís stay away from the word abuse. He said let us the phrase emotional mistreatment. Mama said I can now see it, we loved him but did not respect him because mother was first then her family and then Dad. My sister said it was about time she admitted her family were wrong in the way they treated grandpa and my sister had to add, and you did this to Dad and us. Mama did not respond.

The session was nearing an end. The doctor said it was a good start. I was afraid to talk with Mama and my sister. Everything my sister said was true. Mama and my sister came together to the session and Mama is still living with my sister. I am glad I was in a different car. I must say my sister was not holding back and Mama never looked at me through the whole session. Her tears and pouting did not make me feel sad for her for the first time. Maybe some progress for me that her guilt did not make me cry and say I am sorry to Mama. I always would say I was sorry for what Dad did. Our next session is next week. I hope Mama and my sister I alright. I have not spoken to either since the session. My wife said I look emotionally drained, and I feel it.

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#471395 - 10/19/14 06:48 AM Re: Bad Night Upcoming Family Group Session [Re: sorryson]
Bardo Offline


Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 269
Whew. Well Done! It does sound like these sessions will be helpful to you and your family. I greatly admire your courage in facing your family issues and especially your mother.
_________________________
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've witnessed your suffering
As the battles raged higher

And though we were hurt so bad
In the fear and alarm
You did not desert me
My brothers in arms

-Mark Knopfler

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