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#469548 - 08/31/14 03:37 PM Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 91
I was searching for my abuser today. I saw on the headlines a story about the Gosslings fighting over visitation of the children. Why must adults cause so many problems for the children. The children need both parents. Parents can be selfish and I grew up in a family with a lot of selfish adults. Sadly we did not know how much damage they did to us until we were older. The adults can never admit or see the damage they do to children. Let the children have both parents and stop trying to control. I could scream with all my family is now going through almost 40 years after the selfishness began, death, near death, alcoholism, nervous breakdowns, estrangement of loved ones, isolation, anti social behavior and so much more.

Adults need to be adults and remember the children.

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#469551 - 08/31/14 07:08 PM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
md4e Offline


Registered: 02/01/14
Posts: 10
I want to scream AMEN!!
I am a spouse of a survivor of incest...cruelty to children ( cruel is with intent, mean is as we all can be at one time)
I am a step parent to children that were made to chose. ..which only produces loss..death, alcoholism, pain
I am a parent of daughter that was crushed by cruelty
I am a grandparent of children that are used as pawns
I pray every night that they are protected from the heart wrenching aftermath of abuse!!!
We all suffer
from the abuse! !!!!
we all pay

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#469570 - 09/01/14 09:55 AM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: md4e]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 91
I am sorry. Children do not have a choice. A child does not willing choose a parent I have learned, they are coerced, manipulated and controlled. It is not until years later that their demons haunt them, the secrecy of what was done to them. Like a survivor of CSA the secret and cruelty of the act takes over and our lives are forever destroyed from suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction and emotional pain and isolation.

I was a survivor of sexual abuse and abuse that forced me to choose between Mama and Dad. I am my sister and brother also choose Mama. Now we look back, my sister is a recovering alcoholic who willing faced the addiction and discovered how her Her childhood choice, or should I say manipulation secretly destroyed her life. I had a nervous breakdown and have learned the childhood of Mama’s choice to leave us and the sexual abuse are so interwoven. My brother’s, once he realized his life was controlled by Mama and her family, life was almost gone at his own hands. None of us achieved our dreams but my sister found happiness once she broke from the past.

I have seen how adults that put themselves first before children only destroy the child. Mama and her family only thought of themselves, pretending to put on the show of being there for their mother. Six people needed to care her and only one parent, Mama, who readily accepted the demands of her mother, sisters and brothers to leave her children behind. Then she needed to have things as they were, but things had changed because she left and Dad was now the one we went to. She slept, she complained, she screamed and she thought she was sick. We were glad to have Mama home, but now know her games were to lure us back into her den, while she had us destroy Dad. We were so good at falling under her spell and the spell of her sisters and brothers. Dad struggled, so much grief for him to live. He was pushed to a point of almost no return. He would be found wandering, he would be found without knowing who he was, he would be found doing things that were not Dad. I now know Mama, my sister, my brother and I caused all his pain with each word and attack we uttered to destroy his self esteem, to push him back to his own childhood sexual abuse by a Brother at his church and school and we did not learn of this abuse until he died. My sister was the only one as she recovered to reconnect with Dad and ask for forgiveness for what she had done to him. She said he did not need an apology just a life together in the future. Now he was an adult who thought of his children, and the other parent thought of herself and sisters and brothers. We choose the latter, and we should never had been made to choose and look how our lives turned out.

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#469575 - 09/01/14 03:29 PM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
journey4two Offline


Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 39
I am hopefully that because we are all here, we can play a part in breaking that cycle. Most of the wounds I carry as an adult relate back to my mother never attuning to me as a young child and selfishly leaving me, my brother and my father when I was 12. A pattern then essentially repeated by my father and brother in the years that followed. The unmet needs of that inner child have unknowingly driven my life choices. I have often berated myself for always choosing an abusive mate or one who would inevitably abandon me. I was at this point with my current husband, a CSA survivor. After living a long time with him not actively seeking healing (if those are the right words... a time before now when he is actively dealing with the wounds of what was done to him0, I have hated myself for choosing him and continuing my own suffering. With the help of therapy and a renewed commitment to and from the man I love, I am thinking that maybe the needs of his inner child and mine are what drew us together. Soon after marriage, we had a child together. We can either continue in the cycle of wounding, letting our inner children rule the roost or we can recognize our pain and say "no more". I am grateful that we have tried very hard to not injure our child... with our words, expectations, selfish acts, or a penal code of punishment. We were drawn to attachment parenting from the time of his birth. Unfortunately, as our own wounds festered, in spite of our efforts to give him a life of emotional security, I'm sure we have left him with plenty to talk to a therapist about. Better, I hope,than what our parents and abusers left us with...but still not perfect. The world is such a hurting place. There is much good in it (the interactions of people on this forum are proof positive of that for me), but there are atrocities that no one... especially a child... should have to endure. We can make better choices for our own... and watch them...actually raise them, nurture them, not push them out on their own before it is their time, etc. And we can advocate for the voiceless. So much that is so heartbreaking. Those of us who know need to love on each other and create an environment that nurtures our adult selves, tends to the wounds of our inner children, and goes on to love others from a new found since of security. That is my hope.

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#469576 - 09/01/14 03:47 PM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
md4e Offline


Registered: 02/01/14
Posts: 10
Yes that is why we are here, to help ourselves and others that are in pain.
and the very fact we are here at this site speaks to the healing we commit to do.
I am so very grateful to come from a family where there was no abuse. At times I feel I am the one to say....stop..it doesn't have to be this way.
At times it is so lonely, but for the ones we love and all the others in pain we must carry on....speak the truth.
Like you said, that is what will bring this abuse to an end
SPEAKING so a child can know it is not alone and you will help.
Abuse is done in private otherwise it would be questioned. ...so lets bring it into the light and talk about it so people can and will take action.
Ok im off my soapbox, but seeing first hand the pain untreated trauma causes is hard to stay quiet about.

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#469585 - 09/01/14 10:25 PM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 91
You are right we can talk and share here. For me I have learned abuse is when one controls someone, emotionally or physically. The physical can be seen but the emotional is hidden. Many times it is words that control. Guilt I have learned can be a weapon if misused. My doctor and counselor have talked about this with me. I know Mama’s doctor has talked to her about the emotional aspects of the abuse. I have learned Mama was emotionally abused by her family. They used guilt to make her feel unworthy as a daughter. They summoned her to be there. She did not need to be there except to allow them to get on with their lives, never leaving their spouse or children. My brother has told my sister he remembers their words, the bitching and complaining and them telling Mama she needs to be there because they have to work or go to a wedding or some event. Mama could not stand up to them. My doctor and counselor said this is a form of abuse, mind controlling. They unfortunately used your and your Mama learned how to use it with your children. She left and could not face the fact she abandoned us so the sisters and brothers did not need to worry when they went to work and play. So she used the same guilt she learned from her mother, sisters and brothers on us. But it was different. My sister and I talked about Mama raising her blouse to show the scars she had from giving birth. We were all Caesarian. I told my doctor and counselor. They asked did she need to show and remind you of how you were born. I did not answer. They would ask how I felt about the scars. I said it was terrible to look at. Did you feel responsible for the scars? I said yes and they told me it is a unfortunate way a mother uses to remind the children of all she has done and suffer so they can live. It creates guilt and no child wants to feel responsible for maiming their mother. It is emotional control. We talked about many other things she would say. I realized I was under her control because I felt guilt for hurting her. And from there everything got worse in the house. Mama continued telling us she would die like her mother. We did not want her to die. The doctor and counselor said it was her way to control us and for us to forget about her leaving. This way she created fear she would leave again. She wanted us as though nothing happened. But it did and she used emotional ways to pretend she did not leave or her family was responsible for her leaving. We began to attack Dad so Mama would not leave. As we attacked Dad she would say, see you will alone the children will be with me. She was right, but for the wrong reasons. We lost one of the greatest loves of our lives, Dad. The cycle of abuse goes back and I was part of abusing Dad. And Dad was dealing with us and his own sexual abuse as a child. No wonder he was put in the hospital and we only found out about his hospital stay when he died. We pushed him so far. I want the abuse to stop.

MS has allowed me to get my feelings out and help me to realize my Dad was not the one who was screwed up but it was my Mama and her family. I feel sorry her family emotionally abused her. I know they will never admit it but they did. They should not have nagged her to be there, they did not give up their spouses or children. They made Mama give us up.

Abuse sucks, so many invisible scars that people can deny and pretend did not happen. Mama is starting to accept but her family will deny to the end. I learned to use someone over and over is emotional abuse. So if you are using someone, stop it.

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#469681 - 09/04/14 12:17 PM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1744
Looks like you are facing the issues head on. I am glad you find MS to be a valuable outlet to get the words and emotions out. Take your time, do not worry about the relatives and what they think--they have caused enough damage. It is your time to heal and get through your issues. I sense you are facing your childhood, your father's abuse and estrangement as well as your own abuse. I sense more confidence in your writings, a sense that you are not living in denial. Be proud that you are moving forward.

Keeping moving forward and if things are moving too fast talk with your doctor and therapist. You even mentioned your mother is beginning to accept what happened, so that is proof it is never to late to stop denying the past and damage it may have caused. Sounds like she wants all of you to get better and be the best you can be.

Take care of yourself.

Kevin

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#469707 - 09/04/14 09:27 PM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: KMCINVA]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 91
I want to thank you Kevin for responding to me. My doctor and counselor have said my brother’s situation has pushed me to realize so much. He tried to harm himself but the doctors’ said it was a cry for help and what he did would not have killed him. I guess I realized I was lucky to be alive despite the abuse by the teacher and the abuse from Mama and her family. I want to live and be happy.

I also think something that happened also helped me. Mama’s brother the one my sister calls the bigot called Mama and apologized. He was the one whose wife made him call my brother. He told Mama his wife told him and all the sisters and other brother what we were doing to Mama was wrong when my grandmother was sick. She said taking her away from her children and husband will onlyy mess up the children and the marriage. She reminded us her husband was sick, just had a heart attack. He said we laughed her off. Her brother was trying to clear his conscience and said she needed to know this before he died. He asked her to forgive him. He said they all laughed at his wife but he said we knew if Mama was not there their lives would be different. He said we did not want to give up work, play and the kid’s activities. He said he was sorry Mama missed so much but no one thought of her children or husband. He saw the children suffering but turned his back. He said we always gave them great gifts to make up for what we did, but we did not talk about it. Mama was distraught after the call. She called her sisters and told them what their brother told her. They just said she was always flighty and it was so long ago. One sister said she was tired of doing everything. I think this helped Mama to see what really happened. I never expected this uncle to say anything about what he did. I think his wife who was always good said enough is enough. We really need to help them get better. Mama’s sisters and brothers were great to her after the divorce and I now know why. They were trying to compensate for their guilt. This uncle knew Dad worked at a child advocacy center and the reason why he was there. He never told anyone until Dad died and we learned of his abuse, being hospitalized and later volunteer work at the center. He did not tell anyone because then someone might have figured out why Dad was the way he was. I do not know if Mama ever told them of the abuse we did to Dad in the home. She probably hid it like they hid knowing what they were doing to Mama would destroy me, my sister and brother and Dad.
Strangely all this has helped me to face the past. This uncle’s admission I think has helped Mama to accept what happened and how her family controlled her.

I do feel stronger and just want to live. There is so much else happening here. My Dad’s wife invited us over. My sister, her husband, my wife and I went to see her. It is a long story but a wonderful ending. Dad was blessed to have her in his life. I will tell the story later because I am still taking in so much of our visit.

I am feeling good and the doctor believes I will be able to return to a modified work schedule shortly. I am feeling everything I believed as being my fault was not my fault. This feels so good.

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#469718 - 09/05/14 08:55 AM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1744
Wonderful to hear of your progress. For each of us it is something different that makes us realize it was not our fault and pushes us to heal. For me it was several events, facing the place of the abuse which pushed me to rock bottom, facing the diocese about the abuse and their positive and supportive response which gave validation, changing the living environment and surrounding myself with wonderful and supportive people including doctor and T and everyone in my support groups.

For you it sadly had to be your brother's recent incident and your uncle admitting to your mother they were wrong and knew it. I remember once telling some of the in-laws the sisters needed to talk because this was not working. I remember the place and can see where people were sitting in my mind as well as hearing their words. They even used one of the wives as an excuse, even though they always referred to her as fat and lazy and she was not fair to their brother because he had to do everything. I must say I was probably the only one who did not make fun of her. I can only imagine what they said about me behind my back and honestly I do not care. I was rebuffed by all to address the situation of the children being left without their mother. Even though I was impacted. But in therapy and support I have learned they had a vested interest in not changing the situation because they would have been affected. I know all will have selective memory as did your aunts and uncles until at least one now accepts how devastating their actions were on you,your Dad, sister and brother and as well as his own sister. It is sad he knew before you of your father's sexual abuse and his works to help others and did not share. He never told anyone, just did not want to face your father had cause for what he may have done. Sadly, it sometimes takes a tragedy to wake people up and realize what they have done. And sometimes the possibility of dying makes people clean their slate of the wrongs they have done. Whatever, it has helped bring some peace to you and hopefully your mother.

I am glad you found a light of hope. It sounds great that you will be able to return to work. It will help you recover another part of your life. Keep going and stay strong. I am happy to hear of your progress.

Kevin

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#469757 - 09/06/14 09:27 AM Re: Why Are Families Selfish and Harm Children [Re: sorryson]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 91
My brother came home. My uncle, my Dad’s brother, and his wife were there at Mama’s house. My sister brought him home. Mama was not there. He looks good but was very quiet. The medication has him a little sedated. A surprise flower arrangement arrived for him. There was a card and it said, please get better, you are in our hearts. Please forgive us for not stopping what happened so many years ago to you, your sister and brother and your father. We know we were wrong. We love you and please come back to us. It was signed by my uncle, the one who called and apologized to Mama and his wife. I know the words were written by his wife. She always had a good heart and she was an outsider like Dad. My uncle told Mama she had told everyone in the family that it ws worng to expected Mama to be there. No one listened to her. My sister said my brother just cried and said something why did it take them all these years to tell me.

I am better and met with the doctor yesterday. A great session, we talked about the sexual abuse and my flashbacks. I still get tense and sad when I talk about them. I did not cry this time and felt somewhat, but probably not, in control. I told the doctor I think I know it was not my fault but need more time to accept me as a child then. He said take your time and one day it will come to you. Only I can accept it no matter whatever others tell me. I told the doctor I am having more difficulty accepting that I was not responsible for the abuse I caused my Dad. The doctor said you need to remember you were “conditioned” (that word) and when a mind is conditioned as a child it is difficult to change. He said you are working at it and in time you will understand you were taught it was right but are learning it was wrong. Your mother and her family were strong influences in your life and you believed them. He also reminded me, Mama was only reacting the way she did because that is the way she was taught to live through words and acts of her family. It is easy for him to say and harder for me to take in.

These past months have been difficult. I think nearly losing my brother has helped me to see life can be difficult but if we have good people near us, we can live. I have my wife and two beautiful children. I credit my wife for giving them the good hearts to understand, love and show compassion. She would always tell the children you do not know what they lived, so do not make funny of or laugh at what they may have done. She always told them she was not perfect and she never pulled the guilty mother role. She was a mother of love and not guilt. I thank her. I know she will be with me as I come to terms with sexual abuse and the effects of what happened in my home.

I hope this is a new beginning for me, my brother and family. I will share my visit to my Dad’s wife home another time. It is weighing on me in such a positive way.

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