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#468256 - 07/30/14 09:16 PM to tell or not to tell, is that the question?
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3536
Loc: O Kanada
i came across this today during my daily bible studies.
it appears to be clear.
what do you think?


"If anyone sins in that he is sworn to testify and has knowledge of the matter,
either by seeing or hearing of it, but fails to report it,
then he shall bear his iniquity and willfulness.
"
Leviticus 5

i think this tells me that it is my duty to get involved whenever i become a witness to a crime, or else i am assuming a measure of the guilt.
through inaction, i become an accomplice after the fact.


i have always felt that way, but this is the first time i have seen it in the bible.


so what this seems to be saying is…
silence concerning a sin is a sin.
therefore…
silence concerning a crime is a crime.

any thoughts?
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Victor|Victim

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#468263 - 07/30/14 10:26 PM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: victor-victim]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1782
Very good question. I still have a disturbing memory of a physical abuse of an adult daughter by her father and a mother watching and yelling at the daughter. Then I went into the home after driving around until the outside abuse was over. I entered and the extended family was in denial. I learned from therapy this was probably not an isolated incidence. I have regrets and should have done something about it. I can see how it impacted lives but denial still exists.

I believe adults knew what was happening in the church cellar to me. Fear of abuse, retribution or tellling of one's own abuse holds people back. We cannot judge. Today I would not step back and have done something. I know my own abuse create fear that I would have to tell if I reported someone elses abuse. I was capable of telling of my abuse. To judge is not mine because as a special friend has said we do know what one has lived.

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#468267 - 07/31/14 12:01 AM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: KMCINVA]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3536
Loc: O Kanada
your story resonates with me.
i was terrified that people would find out that i was a "victim".
i had my reasons, but the bottom line is…
i chose not to disclose simply to protect myself.
it was the wrong decision, i now realize,
but i have come to terms with my own errors.

these are excerpts from my first post to ms.org over ten years ago.
i still remember typing that as if it were last night.
i will likely never forget that story bursting out of me in one big barf.
it was one of the most difficult things i ever did,
but it was impossible to stop.

it made me sick to tell the tale in detail,
but once the pressure of the poison was purged,
i felt purified.
it was almost as if my job was done.
the secret was out.
i no longer needed to bear that burden.
i had laid the entire deadweight of that foul memory on the world wide web.

in many ways, i was reborn the day i posted my story here.
i really do appreciate the administration of the ms.org association.


Originally Posted By: victor-victim
"i was too worried about my reputation to reveal what had occurred and i was blaming myself
(victim takes responsibilty for the rape to give himself a false sense of power... 'I let him do it')
when he started his routine with my buddy i was desperate to warn him
but still too freaked out about what had happened
('what happened?' 'did anything happen?' denial)
so i kept my mouth shut
"
"that was the last i heard or saw of him
until he showed up in the newspapers about five years later
"
"the ##### who raped me is in jail for the rest of his life
he was arrested and convicted of 11 murders of children some as young as 6
i was right to fear him
"
"i was more upset about the murdered children than i was about my own rape
i felt guilty about not hitting him
i felt guilty about letting him get away
i felt guilty about not killing him when i had the chance
if i had done something more or something else
maybe those kids would not have had to die like they did (and they died horribly)
but eventually i had to relieve myself of the responsibility for this as well.
it was not my fault, none of it.
i was a kid i made mistakes
."



TRIGGER WARNING!
the entire disclosure is here:
CLIFFORD OLSON PART ONE: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...76022#Post76022
CLIFFORD OLSON PART TWO: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=433693#Post433693

and then there was the time i did tell someone…
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=439722#439722
which occurred years before the serial killer incident.
the disclosure resulted in a confrontation and a denial and nothing.
the abuser never touched me again,
but i have no idea where he went or what he did to whom after that.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#468270 - 07/31/14 01:09 AM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: victor-victim]
tbkkfile Offline


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 283
Loc: Surrey, United Kingdom
Hi Victor

I have to agree with you

I believe that silence was a pivotal part of my abuse. Realising that they could carry out these acts with impunity, after all the guys in charge didn't care, in fact they'd encouraged it either vocally or standing by and pretending it never happened - same thing in my eyes - my perps took things a whole stage further hey I was an easy target, it was OK wasn't it.

Staying silent was the same as standing in a circle and cheering them on.
_________________________
To look up and not down,
To look forward and not back,
To look out and not in

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#468278 - 07/31/14 11:26 AM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: victor-victim]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1782
I think as we heal, we feel the pain others of abuse have suffered, but when we see the abuse we see the face, the expressions and can only imagine how our face must have looked, the horror, the fear, the hurt. We must have had the face of desperation that those abused project.

I will never forget that event nor my own. It makes me realize we all need to have courage and not let the cultural, familial and institutional controls and manipulations dominate us, so as to let another human being suffer. Sadly, abuse is something that can be learned and passed down through the generations, as can the silence that surrounded and the excuses from he did not know what he was doing, he was only joking--but look at the target their face, their reaction--did they stay and take more torment or did the run or leave the scene. For most it is easier to forget the victim and deny what the abuser/tormenter did.

Silence and denial destroy and perpetuates behavior. I was silent about my abuse, how many more were hurt because of my silence. Someone asked me, was I hurt because of someone's silence? I said they were a child and did not know what to do, as does an adult too carries a sense of shame and guilt for what happens to them as a child or an adult.

I will never stand silent again if I see such actions and behaviors. I also will never let anyone treat me in an abusive way, a bullying or threatening manner. Maybe through healing I have an understanding a child in harm cannot always cry out for help, but when the child as a child or adult cries for help from what was done to them as a child, adults need to be brave and stand by and realize their behavior and actions can save the child/adult or destroy that person.

I have learned not to have guilt for what happened to me as a child, because I was a child nor should an adult feel guilt when they have been manipulated and violated. It is survival for the victim, just trying to make it through the attack and the next day and the next day. We need to encourage people not to be silent, too many lives are lost to compulsions, addictions, dissociation, and suicide.

This thread has put me into a reflective state of where I was and where I am today. Wouldn't it be great if society, cultures and families did not promote or create a sense of discouragement to speak when CSA occurs. Maybe one day the world will get there, but until then we need to reach out to all victims and survivors.

Sorry for the long post.

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#468279 - 07/31/14 01:02 PM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: KMCINVA]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3536
Loc: O Kanada
your "long post" makes perfect sense, and i agree with your assessment,
especially the last paragraph.

but this is pure gold!

Originally Posted By: KMCINVA
I was silent about my abuse,
how many more were hurt because of my silence.
Someone asked me, was I hurt because of someone's silence?


i was not the first victim. i was not the last.

this disease is so much bigger than the people it infects.

if these assaults had nothing to do with sex,
and the criminals were just going around smacking and kicking and punching children with the same magnitude and frequency,
this would qualify as a national emergency and there would be a public outcry.
we would have action.

i have seen some amazing wonderful things happen when the people get together to fix their own society.
it only takes focus and effort and communication.
unfortunately, when the sexual abuse of children is mentioned,
the conversation falls silent, individuals become nervous,
and reluctance and avoidance kicks in.

regardless of their own personal experience with CSA,
very few people can handle the subject in open dialogue,
this topic is way too close to our souls.
it is just too personal for most.

until there is meaningful discussion, on a massive social scale,
there will be no progress.
right now we don't even have public awareness.

i guess, because i am right in the middle of the controversy, i simply don't see the problem or the solution. i just know this is wrong.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#468280 - 07/31/14 02:07 PM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: victor-victim]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1395
Loc: kansas
it wouldn't be a national emergency or public outcry....

sad, but true... right now, in the states, it's hardly a national emergency when #'s say it's an epidemic...

i've done the #'s and, in the united states, there are more males who have been abused than there are males with cancer. more than alcohol related deaths. more than aids.

why is it not a national emergency/public outcry when the #'s are of epidemic proportions?
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#468287 - 07/31/14 08:57 PM Re: to tell or not to tell, is that the question? [Re: Obi]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3536
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: Obi
why is it not a national emergency/public outcry when the #'s are of epidemic proportions?



SILENCE!



"A conspiracy of silence is just as bad as a conspiracy of action."
~ Joseph Soloveitchik
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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