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#377436 - 11/30/11 02:02 PM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: unhappycamper]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1650
I hear you John. We all approach it differently, I cannot personally forgive the perp for what was done, it is inexcusable and robbed me of the total life I believe I deserved. But I must forgive myself for holding myself responsible for what I was not responsible for--to renounce anger and resentment against myself, not the perp or abuser. His offense will always be with and part of me, but I need to learn to manage it.



Edited by KMCINVA (11/30/11 02:11 PM)

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#377523 - 12/01/11 07:36 AM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: KMCINVA]
mike13 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 419
Loc: California USA
I love this discussion. Here is where I stand with the five gang members who raped me. Three are already dead and no longer my problem. They are now Gods problem. The other two are serving life terms for other crimes and then they will be Gods problem. So where do stand? I will not deny that revenge would taste real sweet like a piece of thanksgiving pie but what about after it is gone. I know I have every right to see them brought to justice before the judgement seat of God but the line of people that they have hurt is very long. Don't I have better things to do in the here after than wait in line?


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#377531 - 12/01/11 08:17 AM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: mike13]
StringsAttached Offline


Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: mike13
Three are already dead and no longer my problem. They are now Gods problem.


Mike, does the anger increase or decrease knowing that they are dead? Does it bring closure or frustration or what?


Originally Posted By: mike13
Don't I have better things to do in the here after than wait in line?


I don't know about all this forgiveness stuff but I think this one line makes a lot of sense... have to mull that over. Thanks for posting!

_________________________
-StringsAttached

Survive, then thrive



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#377538 - 12/01/11 08:37 AM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: StringsAttached]
mike13 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 419
Loc: California USA
Strings the answer to the first question could be all of the above depending on what kind of day I am having. When I am having a bad day emotionally I will admit a slice of payback pie would taste oh so gooood. With some my perps dead it does make that slice seem so much further from my grasp. I will say that my craving for that slice of pie has been much less often since I found this place in Feb. I think forgiveness is a required thing but the process of letting go of the hate and anger has helped move my recovery along. Hope to talk to you soon on chat. Drop we a line if you need anything Mike


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#377540 - 12/01/11 08:53 AM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: mike13]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1331
Loc: kansas
i can certainly understand the many different views on this topic...

a lot of you bring up good points from different sides....

i guess it all depends on what helps you to recover...

for me, i saw that it was more of forgiving myself... to do my best to let go of the hate and anger so that i could focus on my recovery. my feeling is that also if i carry that hate and anger around for my abuser then not only am i'm making myself physically sick (bp problems) but i'm continuing to allow my abuser to be in my head... essentially still in my life... i don't like that. he's still in my head/life with some of the issues i still have to deal with... i don't want him to take up any more of my life.. so, i forgave myself for allowing that.. little by little i'm taking him out by working on my recovery...

that doesn't mean i let him off the hook... it just means that i'm doing what i can to remove every aspect of him from my life...

_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

my story

my vlog

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#377541 - 12/01/11 09:14 AM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: Obi]
unhappycamper Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 611
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Obi
that doesn't mean i let him off the hook... it just means that i'm doing what i can to remove every aspect of him from my life...


Obi:

IMHO, letting the perp(s) off the hook is impossible, and "removing every aspect" of what they did would be an enormous task at best.

I guess for me, "forgiveness" (and I REALLY think we need a different word for this) means no longer blaming myself for living a "half-life" in the shadow of all these CSA after-effects. Once the extreme PTSD symptoms began, I immediately could tell that they are just amplified versions of things that have plagued me as long as I can remember. Maybe these problems aren't entirely products of CSA--maybe some are, or are increased by, innate tendencies--but either way, there's no reason to blame myself for their presence. Removing that one "aspect" of What The Perp Did is a big enough task for me. I've struggled with treatments, therapy and distractions for 17+ years, and I haven't succeeded yet! Peace.

John


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#468273 - 07/31/14 04:31 AM Re: What is this forgiveness crap? [Re: DarkHadou]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: O Kanada
every so often i come across these threads which explore our mixed feelings about forgiveness.

the concept of forgiveness was one of my major obstacles in life.
it was foreign to me, and i despised it.

i lived in a paradigm of resentment and revenge.
it was not healthy or happy.

but forgiving anyone for anything was not within my skill set,
and i certainly was NOT going to forgive my abusers or my parents.

"turn the other cheek" and "forgive those who trespass against us" were impossible to contemplate, and revolting to consider.
if forgiveness was included in the price of love, then love was too expensive.
so i lived without love and i told christ to get lost.

i no longer feel that way anymore,
and i have never felt better before.

everything changed for me in one single night.

that story is here.
i urge you to read it,
but i must warn you that it is full of triggers.
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...2551#Post432551

so, for me, forgiveness is not crap.
it transformed my reality.

i can only wish the same for others.
this is my truth.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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