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#468004 - 07/26/14 02:25 PM Guilt anyone?
gaatt Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 124
Do any of you struggle with guilt at labeling what happened to you through a woman (or women) as abuse? I often struggle with guilt feelings even though the signs of being hurt (in me) and their connection to childhood mothering are so obvious. My mother's saintly persona is practically bullet proof.
_________________________
"Love yourself and watch...Today, Tomorrow, Always." Buddha.

My Story: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=468661#Post468661

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#468076 - 07/27/14 05:46 PM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: gaatt]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 695
Struggle? I found it peaceful NOT admitting vs. feeling like a perp myself when admitting it. Not admitting it NEVER gave me peace though--I'm angry at myself admitting this.

I lied to myself my entire life since.....who's my audience? Paying $100/hr to a T makes for an expensive occupation. Emotional incest, my pain, is practically another language in group settings.

I'll not vent more for one reason:

People don't know my story ONLY since I've never shared it. I've been "saying" I'd write my testimony for months now....I'm really wanting to do it (since I've witnessed people being totally petrified while sharing = I'm not alone and I can do this).

I am thinking this: post a commitment to do this somewhere in MS so people can ask "how's your testimony writing going?"

Hiding is easy. I like easy. And it's maintained misery, for me. I'm around people "doing the work", and I'm sitting in my sh** daily.

Question: where might I disclose this commitment?

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#468082 - 07/27/14 08:48 PM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: gaatt]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 828
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Gaatt,

I find the guilt is repressed/suppressed/displaced fear. Mothering is so central to surviving, it's no wonder it gets so disconnected from the perpetrator. However, the guilt doesn't belong to you. You were betrayed. That is not to say that the betrayer was mentally healthy, or that it was even personal. It wasn't personal. You were turned into an object of her desires, and reflects her own damage. Being betrayed by mothering, in my opinion, it the scariest betrayal of all. It robs me of the most fundamental basis for forming a sense of ME, a place from which I may examine my participation in the world, and come to my own conclusions.

Sending you love and support,

Don


Edited by don64 (07/27/14 08:49 PM)
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#468126 - 07/28/14 12:45 PM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: don64]
gaatt Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 124
HI Don,

I was going to quote your message but then realized I'd be quoting the whole thing. Thank-you SOOOO MUCH. It touched me deeply.

I think I've been struggling with the fear of stepping back and no longer taking on her emotional neediness. It's like I'm dis-identifying with women and coming into me as a man.

I had a very strange urge last night. It was to go over many news items related to flight MH17 which was shot down in the Ukraine recently. This is what I associate with maleness. As stupid and destructive as it is, there is an energy in it that I seem to need to embrace. There is something inherently male about it. Finding a way to embrace it and transform it into something more constructive/creative/life serving is my challenge.

Thanks for your help.
_________________________
"Love yourself and watch...Today, Tomorrow, Always." Buddha.

My Story: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=468661#Post468661

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#468127 - 07/28/14 12:56 PM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: fhorns]
gaatt Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 124
Originally Posted By: fhorns
People don't know my story ONLY since I've never shared it.
Question: where might I disclose this commitment?

Hi fhorns,

Looks like you've already mentioned it to us. I see there is a survivor stories forum here. If you decide to do it, let us know. I should probably write mine too. My fear is of being recognized by my mother or other family members. Maybe you have that fear too? I'm also ambivalent about the label "survivor". I'm not completely comfortable with it. I suppose there gets a point where the value of full disclosure over-rides the risk of recognition and fear of the label. Maybe we could do it together?
_________________________
"Love yourself and watch...Today, Tomorrow, Always." Buddha.

My Story: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=468661#Post468661

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#468161 - 07/29/14 01:11 AM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: gaatt]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 828
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Gaatt,

You're welcome, and glad to hear of your progress. Speaking of "As stupid and as destructive as it is," I love assassin/spy/retribution movies and actively seek them out. I've just exhausted everything decent Netflix has to offer. It's a way my subconscious has to release suppressed and unexpressed stuff. I think it's healthy. I've also gone through a long period of martial arts non-stop beating the shit out of and killing everybody retribution stuff. Wonderfully releases and satisfies pent-up rage. Now, it's not what I intend to do in the physical world, but it sure does help bring some balance to my interior world.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#468266 - 07/30/14 11:48 PM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: don64]
gaatt Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 124
Originally Posted By: don64
It's a way my subconscious has to release suppressed and unexpressed stuff... Wonderfully releases and satisfies pent-up rage... it sure does help bring some balance to my interior world.

Hi Don,

Thanks. Yes. I think I've been trying to do something similar. I grew up in the military, so the glorification of that approach to problem solving was standard fare in my youth. I also rejected it quite strongly as I got older. I think it was hard on my father because he wanted me to admire him and although he was a generally decent family man, I just couldn't. The military seemed insane to me.

I think I'm trying to understand how that world works. I'm finding that its very mechanical. Somebody hurts you and the only response available is: "Well I'll show him!" and procede to beat the crap out of him using whatever tactics are necessary to that end (honorable or not and regardless of the "collateral damage" involved). The other guy receives the violence and does the exact same thing back. Obviously, there is no end to it until one of the contestants is dead (and if you believe in future lives and Karma, perhaps not even then!). But the key thing is to win, be the "hero" (and get the girl). Awareness (and the cooperation and friendliness that comes with it) doesn't even enter the picture at all.

I get the sense that what we're doing while writing to you guys here is very different. It's about mutual support and healing amongst men in a way that includes sexual dynamics. Obviously, there are no women here and we share an interest in healing some deep personal wounds so its much easier than in most social settings but its a good start!

How does a guy meet women without resorting to this nonsense? Where are the women that aren't into it themselves in their own way?

Thanks for writing!

GAATT


Edited by gaatt (07/30/14 11:51 PM)
_________________________
"Love yourself and watch...Today, Tomorrow, Always." Buddha.

My Story: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=468661#Post468661

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#468543 - 08/05/14 08:13 AM Re: Guilt anyone? [Re: gaatt]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 695
Gaatt,

2 nights ago I came here, and did a "dammit, I'm going to do it". I wrote my first story--part 1. I've been here for years, but was afraid to do NEW things. Risky things.

In truth, it was freeing, and I left some shame and fear in that forum. You spoke about the label thing. I remember the same conflict. I guess I just forgot about it over time. I associated every failure of mine with this or that label (had lots) in the beginning, and I'm sure it's more common than not.

My desperation actually allowed me to ignore that. Coming here, feeling desperate, blocked my pride of what people thought. I just wanted help, comfort, and support.

I remember thinking "maybe I can say this" (still do), or "I'd like their approval" (still do too)....... I really felt young and vulnerable in the beginning, yet was POSITIVE I was being rejected, imagining angry or disgusted snarls from many here. Surprisingly, the few who reached out to me kept me coming back.

So the desperation is actually a gift to me.

That's my story, and it felt right sharing it. Keep sharing yours. Change comes sometimes without our awareness of it.

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