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#467232 - 07/04/14 05:31 AM pain does strange things to people
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 262
Loc: us
I'm not living with H right now. Tonight I got a call at 2am from H he is drunk and his friend (using the term liberally) has left him to go sleep with some girl. He asks for a ride home. I pick him up and don't say much of anything. I'm over lecturing him. He apologizes for being drunk then we get home and he starts laying into me about what a bad wife I am. How I'm so ungratful and he knows I'm planning on divorcing him. I tell him I love him but had to leave because I don't want to watch his downward spiral. He is mean and defensive so I leave. On my way home he then calls to tell me he loves me and he is sorry and that he isn't mad at me.
The csa rollercoaster sucks. Part of me wishes I had just turned my phone off tonight.
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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#467237 - 07/04/14 12:09 PM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 363
Loc: NY
Hey, HD001.

Good to get an update and sorry to hear that it is of this nature.

Thinking about a few things, but most of all what you meant by the title. In some ways your story is so typical and predictable. On the other hand, until he can talk about the pain, unpredictable or unexpected behavior is likely.

Your story also reminds me of the MOMC (Mother of My Children). She was sexually abused as young adult. After we separated, she started pursuing someone. When he unceremoniously rejected her, I was the one who literally had to pick her up off the floor and put her to bed.

She's had another boyfriend since then, who was equally unceremonious. That time I had to go the airport. On the plus side, she has been talking a little more about her bad choices.

Being there for someone is up to the individual. How to do it, when to do it, what to say, etc. Your experience shows that there is some kind of communication going on, that has an emotional nature and that has some elements of taking responsibility. As sucky as the rollercoaster is, I think it's possible to get more and more perspective on it, as the familiar behavior continues.

Sorry you had to take the ride, but good for you in being clear. Keeping it simple takes a little effort but works in the long run (and the short).

Good luck,

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#467265 - 07/05/14 01:05 PM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 361
"I pick him up...."

We all have our journey so please don't think I'm being harsh.

I used to do that exact same thing (pick up a drunk) and I'd get the same blame/nasty response. IMHO - he got there, he got drunk, let someone else deal with it and shut off your phone. It's not your job.

In Al Anon they say "you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it" - those are smart words.

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#467271 - 07/05/14 02:22 PM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 262
Loc: us
You're right suagarbaby.
I had the thought as I went to pick him up that I should've just said no. But I didn't say no I again allowed myself to be sucked in by his bs. I even know why I do it. I do it because I worry that if I don't something awful will happen to him and I will feel guilty for turning my back on him. Is this healthy? No and locically I know it would be his own doing. This is something I'm working on in therapy. I'm working towards letting go accepting that I can only control my life and my happiness.
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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#467337 - 07/07/14 12:05 PM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 361
Everyone's journey is a different length. That is what it boils down to. You will find your way.

I have two rules regarding alcohol(but these came only after emotional and financial devastation):

1. - H drinks again and we are done.
2. - Wherever he drinks (friend/family house - bar - etc.) that is where all his crap will go. I'll just dump it in the driveway/parking lot and he can go collect it. They used to cover for H and lie to me so if they want to do that, they can have him. smile



Edited by sugarbaby (07/07/14 12:05 PM)

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#467438 - 07/10/14 01:25 AM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
Esposa Offline
F&F Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 724
Loc: NJ
I have to say I am kind of with sugarbaby.

There are stages of codependence and we who are working to be more healthy, move through them.

Picking up the drunk is almost as good as condoning the drinking. Why do you think he came after you emotionally after you picked him up? No boundaries.

Picking up the drunk is like buying the crack addict crack. You become a facilitator.

I am not trying to give you a hard time - but let's be honest, if drinking produced what sugar baby is saying, then maybe he would think twice about drinking? If drinking means you will pick him up and then offer yourself for some emotional abuse, why would the drinking stop?

I did what you are doing for a long long while. The only thing that has ever worked for me was to finally set the boundary. No drinking with me, near me, near the kids, no drinking in my life. Your choice, you're in control. You decide. For you. And I decide for me.

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#467459 - 07/10/14 11:19 PM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
HD001 Offline


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 262
Loc: us
So after another therapy session and a lot of thinking I realized a few things.
The reason that H's behavior has been so hurtful is because everytime he took off or shut me out or lied I heard a negative message about myself. "I'm not a good enough wife" or "he doesn't love me. " etc. And I chose to accept these messges. For awhile I made it my mission to try to help him see where he was wrong so that he would stop hurting me. In the process I started treating him as if he were my rebellious tennage son and not my friend.
My first mistake was creating negative messages about myself because of someone elses behavior and then accepting those messages. I would say that was codependant behavior as I understand it.
My second mistakes was thinking that I could control H's behavior and that if he changed I could then feel good about my life. Also codependant behavior as I understand it.
I've realized how much I have felt the need for control in my life. How much I have allowed others actions to dictate how much I desrved to love myself. Also how I quit treating H like he was a friend and started treating him like a child.
Even if he acts like a spoiled child it has made me unhappy to treat him this way.

So I've been asking what's the best thing for me to do here to grow me and make me feel good? Well I think that freeing myself from trying to control H would feel pretty damn good. Having the clarity to realize that I cannot choose how others behave I can only choose how I respond would feel good to. Not allowing my sense of worth and happiness to come from outside would be awesome. And being able to love someone even if the only thing I'm getting out of it is a chance to learn patience and how to be at peace despite my surroundings.

I'm not taking accountability for what he chooses to do or say because it isn't my problem. I'm not going to do or not do certain things because I'm hoping to try to get him to think twice. I'm just going to do for him what I would do for a friend who was in his situation. I won't wait for him to need me or feel bad when he wants his space. I will relinquish all illusions of control over H and all illusions that he gets a say in how loveable I am. And when the dust has settled I will know that no matter what he did I always treated him with the love and kindness I would give to a dear friend. What he chooses to do with that kindness is on him. If he keeps drinking because I was available to give a friend a ride home and did so that's on him. His behavior is his problem and it only has destructive power in my life when I choose to give it that power.

The other night was good for me. It was practice in how to walk away when he lashes out despite my kindness. It was practice in seeing how his anger has no power over me when I remember that its only his pain manifesting in an unhealthy way. And when he was attacking me I did attack back for a moment but then I realized what I was doing and how silly it was. I heard a voice in my heard say "this man needs your love not your judgement." So I knelt down and held H's face between my hands. I looked him in the eyes and told him how much I love him. And that I hope one day he sees how much he is loved." It felt so healing for me. And for the first time in 7 years I was able to see him sad and drunk but not let it make me cry or stay up all night thinking about how I should "handle the situation". I don't have to handle any of it. I just have to be kind because it makes me feel happy to do so.
I'm not saying that what I'm doing is the best for H. But its the best for me and when he does cross lines I will tell him and when I start to feel myself forgetting my how powerful I am when it comes to my own happiness I will step back and gather myself. This has been the first week since before I met H that I'm feeling stronger again. I can feel myself starting to believe in myself again and see how beautiful I really am.
_________________________
Everything comes from within

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#467469 - 07/11/14 10:33 AM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
sugarbaby Offline


Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 361
Quote:
his pain manifesting in an unhealthy way


I hadn't really thought about this until I read your post but it seems to me that as long as there is an unhealthy avenue many men will take it. If we shut down the avenue they have to find a different way of coping.

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#467507 - 07/12/14 12:10 AM Re: pain does strange things to people [Re: HD001]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 363
Loc: NY
HD001 and others:

Being in charge of one's own boundaries is important. Letting the other person know that can be empowering for both of us. It shows that I am present and that I understand what emotions are being felt.

Recently, my mom gave in to her fears and criticized my kid's mother in a harsh and provocative way. Like an addiction, it was an act of compulsion that she could own more and make other choices with.

I felt good about how I set the boundary. I let her know that she was pushing me away by acting the way she did. She cried a little. She began to acknowledge that there was a problem each time we said goodbye these days.

In more traditional psychology language, this an attachment problem. In the language of feeling, she unconsciously used shame as a way of invading my life. Maybe it's an old habit of hers of trying to create an illusion of safe place in the strength of her judgment. For me it is essential to feel all of what is happening, so that I know where the boundary is.

My question is, if it is necessary to know what you are feeling to set a boundary, isn't also necessary for another person to know what you are feeling? If boundaries are only rules without emotion, don't they ultimately lose their power to engage someone? So many people have suggested ways to get her to understand. They never worked because the underlying emotions, including the pain, were never acknowledged. Without that, the mind skips over, rationalizes, and ultimately tests how much to act out again. Sadly, that's been my experience. Over and over.

Yes, I think men can act like big babies in these situations. Other people can act like children to avoid taking responsibility. Maybe bringing those who hurt us into the realm of knowing the impact of their actions and having empathy for what is being felt is one worthy goal here.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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