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#467416 - 07/09/14 08:11 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: KMCINVA]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 64
I guess everyone has some dysfunctional aspect in their family. I guess we are all a product of our enviornment including our family. I guess I cannot change the past, only learn to accept it. I am trying to forgive Mama but she still says her family was perfect and I am just whining. She is old so maybe let her think this and I will just have to accept it. I feel like a victim, not sure if it is just she left us and hurt Dad or if it is the sexual abuse. It all runs together.

I agree with the part the young children should be the priority when making plans for elderly care. I guess we were not a priority to Mama and her family. I have to meet with my psychiatrist today, I am going to talk about how I feel about Mama and her family and what they did to us. I want to put it behind. I am also going to ask what can I do to help my brother who is still caught in the trap. Maybe I cannot change the past but hopefully I can change the future for my brother.

I wonder if I had not been sexually abused would I feel differently about all the family crap.

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#467503 - 07/11/14 09:23 PM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 64
i met with my psychiatrist and counselor and was told to focus on me. I need to heal and be better before I can help anyone. I am so concerned for my brother. They told me he has to want to break the chain of be so attached. They said if Mama would get help and tell him he needs to get help because of what happened many years ago he may listen. I asked what happens when Mama dies, they said he will be lost because she was his life since he was a child. They told me no mother or family should every make this happen. Such selfishness from grandma and the aunts. I spoke with my sister and she said she would talk to Mama. She thinks it is useless because that whole family thinks they are the only perfect family in the world. She said they were like everyone else and just wanted to hurt people they thought were not like them. She said she hoped her children were not anything like them. I think my children are not because of my wife. I want to help him so much. The professionals tell me to work on me and then I can help him. Everything is so screwed up.

Even at Dad's funeral my brother did not care about Dad but was looking to see what he and Mama should get from him. My own doctors have said the person being abused should never help anyone who is abusing them because it only enables them. Why does Mama and my brother think they deserve anything after what they did to him. I think they are mad he died happy because her family was never happy only pretended by making fun of everyone else in the building or school. Poor Dad was an outsider. I think my grandpa saw my Dad was treated the same way they treated him.

I will try to take care of myself first. My wife and sisters say the doctor and counselor are right. It is so hard because I think I am a good person but if I do not help him I will not be a good person. I am trying. Has anyone else dealt with family and CSA at the same time? What did you do?

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#467670 - 07/16/14 08:34 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 64
I think hell has frozen over. Something I thought would never happen has happened. My sister went to speak to Mama about our brother. We are both concerned his life will be destroyed when Mama passes. She is getting up there in years.

My sister, a recovering alcoholic, found her voice years ago when she faced her demons and the past. She was the only child of the three to see through the mask that was built to protect Mama and her family. She reconciled with Dad. For me, I could only say I am sorry at his funeral. Now I know I was wrong and was led down the path of believing everything my father was evil and wrong. This allowed Mama to be the center of the love of her children, even though she left us, now let me say it honestly, she abandoned us to take care of her mother when there were many others there who should have taken care of grandma without expecting Mama to be there. They did not have to leave their families.

My sister dreaded the thought of facing Mama. Since Dad died we both were concerned for our brother and what will happen when Mama is no longer here. He has been controlled by Mama and he controls her and both do not have a happy life. My sister told me she faced Mama and was surprised on how calm and non-combative she was. Generally she is fierce as a bull. My sister said they talked and out of nowhere Mama began to cry. She told my sister she cried when she heard Dad died. My sister asked after all the things you said and did to him you cried, we thought you hated him. Mama said she now knows what was done to Dad was wrong. My sister asked why did you continue and make us do those horrible things. She said only by continuing to criticize him could she continue to believe she was right and her family told her Dad was useless. She apologized to my sister and told her she was proud that she overcame the damage of leaving the family and letting grandma and her sisters and brothers take her away from us. Mama said she was so torn but hearing them complain and saying we missed her she knew she had to go. Mama admitted she was afraid of her sisters and could not disappoint her brothers so she felt guilty. Mama said she should not have left our Dad after he had the heart attack. Mama was sorry she came back after grandma died feeling lonely. She was hurt when she saw the children going to Dad for help and everything else. Mama admitted she was jealous and wanted everything especially the children’s love. Mama said she had to break us from Dad and said once she got started it just kept rolling along. She said I should never have let you hear the things she said to Dad. My sister asked Mama if she knew Dad had been sexually abused as a child. Mama said no but he had asked her for help many times as she was trying to regain control of the children. Dad did not tell her specifics but Mama did not want to help him. Mama said she spoke with her sisters and they said he was just looking for attention and not to give in to him. My sister and I talked and remember Dad asking for help and he was laughed at, we laughed at him too. Mama told my sister maybe the abuse and what we did made him act the way he did and now she felt guilty for not helping him.

My sister asked about getting help for our younger brother. Mama said if she told my brother she was wrong and should not have broken our family up and taken him to away with her he would be angry. My sister said maybe the two of you could go to counseling and let the counselor lead you through the best way to resolve the issue. Mama said she would have to think about it. My sister also told Mama about me being sexually abused by the teacher priest when she was in Chicago. Mama began to cry uncontrollably saying I hurt all my children and destroyed their father. My sister told her he was not destroyed and had found a happy place in life. He did miss his two sons and knew he needed to keep his distance. Dad also said he did not want to enable them to continue to hurt him so he would watch from afar and not give or get involved. My sister also told her, my wife secretly had my children get to know their grandfather. She said Mama was glad she had done that because Dad was a good man. My sister said that was the first kind word she heard from Mama about Dad in decades.

That night WW III broke out in our family. Mama called her sister and told her how she felt. This sister was married with no children. Her husband was a funny guy but a lapdog to the aunt. I always thought he instigated much of the troubles. The aunt was livid, she ranted and raved on how she did everything and my Dad was an ungrateful person. Mama told her sister about Dad’s abuse as a child and the aunt said something, yeah right. Mama and this sister are not talking. The aunt called my sister and started lashing out at her. Calling her a trouble maker, ungrateful niece for all she did for her. My sister told her she did not do it for anyone but for herself, always trying to outdo others and wrecking activities and events others planned to celebrate their child. My aunt said what happened to our Dad as a child was because his mother was oblivious and did not watch over him. My sister said it was not true and told her I had been sexually abused by a priest when Mama was in Chicago picking up the pieces so you could have your life. She said the aunt was silent and hung up the phone. I thought I would be spared the drama but the aunt called me. I just told her I agreed with my sister and Mama on what happened and how it destroyed our family. She started to tell me how she did everything for us and I just said what my sister said, you did it for yourself so people would think you were great and did not do it for us. She hung on me and I have not heard from her.

I did not hear from Mama and I was not going to call. The following evening I received the dreaded call. Mama was soft spoken that evening, which was not her. Asked how I was doing. She told me she spent several hours with Fr. at the church. He was a young liberal priest. Mama told him everything from leaving the family to watch grandma with three sisters and a father who all lived right there and brothers also there. She told him about our brother ¬¬and how controlling and mean he became as she started to take him with her and how he missed school and being with other children and his father, sister and brother. She began to tell me the stories she told Fr. about how she felt and acted after Grandma died. She even told him how my brother threw hot oatmeal on Dad, how Dad would be locked out of the house, his work files opened and thrown apart, how Dad would have to stay up all night putting them back together while she laughed and encouraged the children to laugh. She also told him she would start arguments and cry, so the children would feel sorry for her. She told him Dad began to act strange and was not the same person. Mama went on to tell how yesterday she learned he had been sexually abused as a child. The priest told Mama they are learning how devastating sexual abuse is to a child. She said she learned how the abuse can destroy a child and how a child can hide it for decades and one day it boils over. She asked if my Dad could have done some of the things he did because of the abuse. The priest said it is possible and they were learning more each day on what this type of abuse does to the mind. They then talked about me and Mama said she now understands my breakdown, my memory loss and forgetfulness. She cried and said she was so sorry and she should have been there. I told her she should have been there for us and Dad. She needs to understand the guilt her mother and sisters had and how it controlled her. It was wrong and selfish of them. I told her I loved her and only want the future to be happy. I told her I want my brother to get help like I am. She asked if I knew anyone that could help. I am going to ask my counselor and psychiatrist.

I never would have expected Mama to accept she was wrong and her family being wrong. It was the first time I did not hear how perfect her mother was throughout life. The aunt is still calling and complaining to my sister. The other aunt that is still alive called Mama and my sister and said how wrong we all were. She said the sexual abuse is a cop out. Mama is hurt, she loves her sisters and now realizes they are her sisters but we are her children and Dad was the one she chose to be with. But said she chose her Mama and sisters over Dad and us. Now she wants to talk to someone and I can only think it will lead to my brother getting help so he can have a life. For me this is monumental, never thinking this woman, my Mama, could ever admit she was wrong and her family was not perfect and destroyed her family and my Dad. I think Dad must have intervened to help my brother because he was truly a Dad and never expected anything in return.

I hope this will help me on my path to accept my past and the sexual abuse I lived as a child. I do not want to get caught up in the family drama. Hearing Mama say she was sorry made me feel better.

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#467673 - 07/16/14 09:01 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3391
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Sorry -

this is HUGE and i am so happy for you. i hope it can be the beginning of a much more healthy and positive relationship between your remaining family members.

grin
smiling for you!
LEE
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#467687 - 07/16/14 08:00 PM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1648
Sorryson

Wow never expected to hear such good news. I am so happy for you and your family. Your sister must have been able to say something that got through to your mother. I can only imagine your feelings and sense of relief to finally have a mother you can love and who is not hiding behind her own need to please her sisters and brothers. For your mother to finally comes to term with her past and unfortunately the hurt she caused cannot be undone but shows we can all face the past.

At the workshop for families with dysfunction they said if the parent who perpetrated the hurt and created a world that prevented the child from being independent of the parent can admit their issues and failings and tell the children it is important to seek help with a therapist it can be more convincing than someone outside the "inner circle", because distrust surround all outside. I wish your mother and brother the best and hopefully they can face and accept the past. Your brother deserves a life of his own.

Thank you for sharing and now I hope this helps to lift a pain you have felt along with the CSA. As you said your father must have intervened. I believe he is with you and watching over. He wants you and your brother to heal and be well. I think your remark about your father never expecting anything in return for what he did shows the person he was and you should accept he was always with you

Keep well and maybe it is time to change you name, because you are not a sorryson but rather a son who knows his father has always been with you.

Kevin

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#467779 - 07/19/14 09:26 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 64
It has been a difficult week. I am trying to focus on getting better and resolving my issues with CSA and my Dad. The family drama has heightened. My brother overheard several conversations about Mama, her family and how he is living his life. He has shown anger, bitterness and retreated from the world. The priest came over the other night to talk with Mama and my brother. My sister was there. The priest tried to explain to my brother it was alright to be angry and what happened to him was not his fault. The priest supposedly tried to put Mama in the best light possible explaining she only acted in the way she learned as a child. My brother did not want to hear this about Mama and said his whole life was a joke. He said he never had friends as a child because I was being dragged to Chicago and away from school and my family. He said he thought Mama needed him so he gave all to her. It did not end well.

The priest left and my brother left the room and then my sister and Mama heard him fighting on the phone. He called the aunt who has been a major pain in the ass our whole lives. She made us feel guilty and made us love her. He supposedly called her a B***h, which is true and screamed out things he remembered she said to Mama to make her feel guilty to stay or come back. He also remembered how bitter she was about the illness and how unfair it was to her. My sister said it was brutal and my sister was surprised how many details he remembered. They could not hear the other side of the conversation but imagined she denied everything and was trying to make him feel guilty. My brother was beyond that point. Next thing they know he is calling my uncle. The same thing happens and he tells everything he remembers. Mama had a soft spot for two of her three brothers. He told my uncle he remembered him telling Mama how he could not take this anymore and she needed to stay so he did not have to hear the sisters complain.

My brother stormed out and went to his room. He would not speak or let anyone in. My sister left and when she got home her husband told her she had a few “welcome home” messages from the aunt and uncle.

Oddly the next day my uncle called my brother, my brother took the call. My uncle apologized to my brother. My brother asked why so late? My brother told my sister the uncle said his wife had told him when this was going on he and my family will ruin your sister’s life and mess up the children and marriage if they kept up making Mama feel guilty for being home with her children and husband and not taking care of grandma. He told my brother that he thought his wife did not know what she was talking about. He said he realized years ago what they did was wrong. My brother asked will you apologize to Mama and tell his sisters’ what was done was wrong. He said that would be hard because it would disappoint his mother. My brother said she has been dead over 40 years. My uncle’s wife was the smart one in the family and no one ever listened to the smart one.

I am worried about my brother. His mood swings are all over the place. Anger, silence, rage, betrayal and it goes on. Mama is struggling and crying all the time. I met with my counselor and psychiatrist and told them what was happening. They both said I need to focus on me. I know they are right but it is hard to see someone suffer and in pain. I guess I know his pain and how it can come to life decades later. My doctor explained my brother is going through the process of facing what happened to him. She said like you, you placed trust in supposedly kind and fair adult, and I was betrayed. Your brother was betrayed, his was not physical but rather emotional abuse by many adults. She said the abuse most likely was not intentional. It was the result of the dysfunction in the family. The doctor said less dysfunctional families, especially one as large as my mother’s, would have prioritized the needs of the children and established a schedule. The family would realize not all would be able to assist to the same degree. Instead your brother was brought into an intense, unhealthy and disruptive environment. The environment had hostility, resentment, and other negative issues. She said for my brother his only constant was my Mama and his nuclear family was not intact. My brother began to see everything through my Mama’s eyes and he began to treat people as she did. She said he began to think this is how he should live his life. He lost a part of himself. She told me my Dad was also a victim as was my brother. When Mama returned she was sad, angry and felt left out of the family. She would become angry with Dad and saying to the children I am your mother and I do those things. Dad had done them for so long. Her anger carried over to Dad and my brother has he had come to believe began treating Dad in the same way as Mama and it was the right thing to do. My doctor believes for him to accept the rift with Dad was the result of Mama and her family will be the most difficult aspect. Every child wants a mother and father and he lost a father forever.

My doctor is concerned for my brother. She has arranged counseling with a respected expert in family issues for my brother and Mama. They meet on Monday. I just want him to be well and start living. I do not want him to hurt himself.

I have learned any type of abuse leaves scars. I also learned emotional manipulation is common in many families and is not intentional. It just keeps flowing from parent to child and so on. This has sidetracked me from me. I know I have a lot to do to get better and my wife has been a saint. She is so supportive and said I think getting this skeleton out of the closet will help me. I hope she is right.

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#467955 - 07/24/14 10:23 PM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 64
Things have been difficult here. Mama and my brother went to see the psychiatrist twice this week. Mama is staying with my sister and my brother is very sad. My doctor wants me to keep away because of my own issues and trying to get better. I went to see my brother yesterday, I feel so bad for him. He is learning his life was controlled and taken by people he loved. He kept saying over and over, I was there to help Mama. He then says, I was there to help her make Dad look bad so she could look good and we would forget she left and he was taken away to be with everyone who was mad and upset and spiteful over grandma and having to give up their time. He seems so lost and I just cried for him. I know how he feels and yet I cannot relate to how he feels about being taken from Dad, my sister and me. I only feel Mama's family took both of them from us. I am worried he will do something horrible to himself. I told my sister and she spoke with his doctor. They are meeting again tomorrow, just the two of them. Last night is the first time he cried and said Dad why did I believe those selfish people. He said he hurt him and knew it so Mama would be happy. I know how much I missed out on Dad because of everything that was done. I almost got mad at my brother about all the horrible things he did why Mama and we laughed. I held back because I am as guilty as he and Mama has finally admitted she was wrong. Everyone wanted to be loved and did horrible things to get the love they thought they deserved. Sad way to live and I hope it ends here.

Mama is crying all the time and keeps saying over and over, why did I let my sisters and brothers do this to me. She is angry.

I am struggling myself and just trying to keep myself going. I told my brother it was not his fault but the adults fault. I tried to tell him that is all they knew because that is how their family treated people and Mama. He was a child. Then I remember everyone tells me I was a child when I was abused and I still feel guilty it was my fault. My brother does not know of my abuse only my Dad's. I have been to the counselor twice this week and I see my doctor tomorrow. My wife is hold me some what together but inside I am so sad for everyone and for what I missed in life because of the abuse and what happened with Mama and her family. I think about giving up on all this healing. Maybe I am better off without all these doctors and counselors. Then I think of my children, would they be better off without me. Lately I have been saying yes. I do not want to believe this.

It has been so much over the past months and I need to sleep. My wife I know will keep a loving eye on me.

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#468317 - 08/01/14 07:20 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
sorryson Offline


Registered: 05/31/14
Posts: 64
I am loosing it. Everything is so difficult now. My counselor and doctors have told me to work on me and not try to help my brother. Mama is staying with my sister. Their counselor recommended time apart. My brother keeps calling me and I keep talking to him. When he talks all I can see is the sexual abuse. I then become angry at the teacher priest. I then get angry at Mama for leaving this mess so she could keep her sisters and brothers happy. They did not leave their children and their children did not feel lonely. I think my abuser picked me because he knew I was lonely.

My brother is so mad at everyone. He is really mad at himself for letting Mama and the aunts and uncles using Mama and all of us. He said the other night he felt sorry for Dad. He said no one told him about Dad being abused as a child. I ask him if he did tell us what would you and Mama have done. Would you have been nice to him or would you have laughed at him and told him it was nothing. He said I do not know and the said I think that is why he may have done those things. I said it could be but it was also the abuse we all gave him. He said abuse, I said yes. Throwing oatmeal on a person, locking him out of the house, destroying his work paper, laughing at him, and everything else we did. I said I think it was both that mad him feel lost and sad. I said everyone used him. My brother then told me stories how Grandpa was made to feel bad and he would walk out of the room. He said Grandpa did more than anyone else. They would all laugh at him. He told me they would make fun of Dad and he was not even there. Mama would also talk about Dad and they would all laugh. I think he is seeing what happened and remembering is making him mad. He cried saying he is a middle aged man who never was a child or young adult because he had to watch out for Mama. He said Mama should have been watching out for him and me and my sister. The anger is bad and I have so much anger. I have not told him about my abuse. I do not think anyoune else had unless one of the crazy aunts or uncles did. I think this would make him mad. I then think he would understand he is not alone. I do not know what to do. I guess I need to listen to my counselor and doctors.

This whole situation is terrible. I hope I am making progress, I feel like a bulldozer keeps running over me. There are days I want to give up. I then think of Dad and how he kept going, I cannot disappoint him again.

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#468318 - 08/01/14 07:28 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sadclown]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3336
Loc: O Kanada
keep typing it out, brother!

don't give up.
don't give in.
don't give out.

stay strong.

you have to learn how to swim before you go back in the water to rescue anyone.

try to lead by example.

i agree with your conclusion.
listen to your counsellor and doctors.

nurture yourself.

or, as they say in UFC… "Protect yourself at all times."

i wish i could offer more than just "keep your chin up" but that is all i know how to do.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#468325 - 08/01/14 10:56 AM Re: The Circle of Life [Re: sorryson]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1648
Sorryson

Life seems to be moving fast. Your therapist and doctors have given you good advise. You need to heal yourself before you can help anyone else heal. Your brother is dealing with many of the same feelings we have from the abuse. He should never have been made to feel he needed to watch over his mother.

I relate to what you are living. It is not isolated, many families face what you have because of family's failure to recognize more then their inner circle are effected by decisions, guilt and control. It is just the way of the family, not always intentional, sometimes selfish. Some people believe love is only present when one sacrifices all for them-whatever the reason, you cannot change how they perceive what has happened. You and your brother were children and should have been put before the other adults, but were not. I see similarities between you, your brother and sister and my own children. Your sister dug deep to find the cause of her unhappiness. I was at a seminar on addictions and the experts stated between 75-80% of addictions are from some form of childhood trauma. They mentioned abuse to a sense of not being important or loved by a parent. They also said many can overcome the addiction without facing the truth but never truly have a happy and fulfilling life. Your sister definitely dug deep and appears to have a rewarding life. Kudos to her. I have a child who has been through rehab and is clean but I believe medications are what is controlling the moods. The child I hope has dug deep like your sister so a rewarding and full life will be had. I also hope the children face the issues earlier rather than later in life so they can recapture their lives. Going through the pain you and your brother are feeling at this point in your life is difficult.

I hope you heed the advise of the doctors because you have made progress. You seem to have an inner strength to move forward. Your wife standing by you is so important. It sounds as though she always put your first and still is.

I hope your brother continues with his therapy and finds he has many years ahead. He deserve to be free and live his life. I am also glad to see your mother realizes now that a parent should not create a world where the child needs to adore them and forsake everyone else. I am sorry she did not recognize this years ago before so much time and hurt was caused to you, your brother, sister and father. At last she is trying to right a wrong and this takes a brave person. She needs support also. Keep moving forward.

Kevin

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