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#466749 - 06/18/14 01:15 PM CSA and Dating Abuse
concerned_husky Offline

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 737

Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 11:51 AM)
Edit Reason: Walls up again.

"Don't spend more time thinking about people who don't give a shit about you than the ones who do."

#466750 - 06/18/14 01:38 PM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
NoSimpleMachine Offline

Registered: 06/05/14
Posts: 223
Loc: SF Bay Area
This sounds incredibly shocking to face and cope with...probably very surreal...but I hope it helps to hear that, reading it from the outside, it makes a lot of sense.

As an abuse survivor yourself, it is very natural to be very compliant and trusting in the face of others, particularly those who are erratic or threatening like she is. So you can feel naive for almost falling for her pregnancy scare, but you were just doing something very common and understandable for an abuse victim. Bravo to you for recognizing an abusive situation and extracting yourself from it. It's really terrifying to do that for the first time because it goes against all your embedded learning, but that's precisely why it's so healthy.

As for her, is she evil? Probably not. She's definitely manipulative, but her manipulation is probably a symptom of her own problems in life. She clearly has a big hole in her heart that she wants to fill with a partner, thinks it will make her life better, and probably used the pregnancy notion and all her associated guilting of you to try to trap you into it.

Your conversation with her later on in the mall confirmed that.

She's a messed up person with her own traumas that she needs to handle, and it sounds like she's getting started. You're not the father of her child and you don't owe her companionship, answers to her problems, or support in her journey. You're not in a position to provide it and you're not obligated. You also have nothing to gain by tracking her progress, for her sake or your own.

But you owe it to yourself to see her as a complete person who has turned to some damaging habits to cope with how she developed, and that you both share that background. It's probably a big part of why you were drawn to each other in the first place. You owe that to yourself because it takes her from being an example of "anything can be a threat" in your life and moves her to "real people aren't perfect and it's OK for me to choose my relationships based on how I'm treated by others and how they make me feel in my life". The former way of looking at things is a continuation of abuse. The latter is a healthy, self-loving view out to the world.

Edited by NoSimpleMachine (06/18/14 01:47 PM)
If I know only one thing it's that everything that I see
Of the world outside is so inconceivable often I barely can speak
Yeah I'm tongue-tied and dizzy and I can't keep it to myself
What good is it to sing Helplessness Blues, why should I wait for anyone else?

#466752 - 06/18/14 02:11 PM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
Sven Offline

Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 465
Husky, I don't have any intelligent comments for you, like NSM, but I wanted to atleast reply. Say I read it and that I feel for you...
I haven't really been in anything similar but I can understand how things like this can shatter your last bit of sanity and trust in the world. Keep writing...
In the howling wind
Comes a stinging rain
See it driving nails
Into souls on the tree of pain
From the firefly a red orange glow
See the face of fear
Running scared in the valley below
~ Bullet The Blue Sky - U2

#466759 - 06/18/14 09:03 PM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
sadclown Offline

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 59
You ask a question I have asked myself a bajillion times, over many years, to many people, in many states of conciousness- "Why are people like this? Why me? Didn't I already suffer enough!?!"

Many drunks, many drug benders, many broken possessions, many outbursts, many nights spent sobbing from the time I was 7 until a few weeks ago,and many stupid arguments bring me back to the same answer every time.

That is simply, some people are evil. Some are not evil, but are not good either. Some people are so purely selfish that they will manipulate you. Some people are so predatory they will pick out who may make good prey, cultivate him, exploit him for all he has, and refuse to take any accountability. You, my friend, met a such predator. Plain and simple.

I recall the sting you describe. In many ways, the family I had who beat me and the man who turned me into his pet operated in many of the same ways, with many of the same tactics you describe. Of course, details were different, but the format of the deceit was very similar in many ways to the examples you cited. It's just a predatory metric and be they child molesters or abusive spouses, they follow some very similar tactics.

One sad truth about guys who had the experiences we had is that we are almost uniformly starved for love in a way most adults are not; we show it in many different ways from clingly desperation to a robotic stoicism, but almost all of us have a void of love and connection we would sell our souls to fill. We keep our childish need for love (whether we admit it or not) and yes, that can get us in trouble sometimes. But no matter how you stack it, predators will ALWAYS exist, they have ALWAYS existed, and probably will go away around the same time the Sun engulfs the Earth in around 5 billion years. But, that is in no way a reflection of you; and this time you were NOT prey. You were stalked, yes; the predator got close- maybe too close- hiding in the tall grass. But you outran her; you DID beat her at her own game. You heard something that didn't jive, you informed yourself and called BS. You felt like she was being inappropriate, called her on it, drew boundaries, and most importantly you enforced them. On the contrary, were we in the same area I would buy you a drink to celebrate. You did something really hard, something that while made trickier by our experiences, is something so many people in all walks of life everywhere have trouble with. Kudos, man. You should pat yourself on the back for your success!

Does it hurt that this happened? Yeah, yeah it does. And it will. And it should. It was hurtful and you are human. But next time, you can see someone like her coming and avoid it before it happens. That is really all you can do here. Record, evaluate, learn, move on. You're far from the only guy who met a sheisty girl who played a hurtful game with him and left a wound. In fact, it seems like you have to go through at least one or two of them before you can find the good one. It seems to be a pretty standard learning curve.

To answer you question, "Why?". The answer is simply, "Because". To answer your question, "Wasn't CSA enough?", the answer is simply, "There is no metric- no limit. What happens, happens. You didn't deserve it, but you got it."

Sorry to get buddhist on you here, but its the raw simplicity of the situation. She had some bad traits and was not good for you. Move on to the next experience.

But first, pat yourself on the back for identifying and solving the situation. That was clever and courageous. You deserve the credit for that
My Story

"There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed"- Ernest Hemingway

#466883 - 06/22/14 12:46 AM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
Bluedogone Offline

Registered: 07/03/13
Posts: 655
Loc: Southern US
Hi Husky,

Except for the pregnancy scare your story sounds hauntingly familiar to a situation I was in many many years ago. Mutual friends (?) kept insisting we would make an ideal couple and I should jump at the chance to date B. I was like a good many dudes who've experienced CSA, and a real live affectionate girl, almost any girl, was more than I could hope for. Plus, it sort of proved to me that I wasn't damaged defective goods and could have a normal relationship, not just attract the unhealthy needy predators that was my sexual experience.

On the first date with B it got very, very serious. I didn't even consider the possibility of sex, but she assured me she was on the pill, so what the hell. This should probably have been the first warning sign, but instead was a boost to my ego, and only proved what a great lover I was, (lol). Our relationship only got more intense, and I was in what I thought of as love. After about a month or so, like a sharp body blow to the gut she told me she was married, was very unhappy in her marriage, was soon getting a divorce, and we could get married the following February. I already had more trust issues than I could deal with, and this news put me in a downward spiral. Why didn't she tell me she was married up front? Why didn't the friends who kept trying to set us up tell me? One of these girls was her best friend, did she just forget to mention the marriage and pending divorce? I was naive enough to think this type deception just doesn't happen.

I don't think love ever had anything to do with our relationship, but starting out without mentioning the marriage stopped any thoughts of marriage for me. But I was the only one who thought it was a good idea to cool it, and maybe reassess where we're headed.

This was before emails were so widespread, but the phone calls and visits at work started like crazy, and two of the girls who worked in my office gave me a daily report and almost daily grilling of what was going on between me and B. The guilt, self blame, anger and/or humiliation became the center of my emotions. These same exact emotions were from CSA, and here they were again. She insisted we meet face to face and plan our future. As difficult as it was I refused to feel any guilt over my decision to end our relationship. It took quite a while to finally get over any feelings, in spite of the emotional blackmail that she gave me.

But here's the good part, it does get better. I hope you'll consider when all the questions you ask come up. And when you long for the day when that sense of innocence and purity with your music returns and can escape to a rich fantasy world, it does get better.

In spite of my encounter with B so many years ago, I survived the whole thing, and have since been married to a wonderful wife, and raised two very productive sons.

I don't know if P was evil or not, but I do know she really knew how to play the guilt card with you. You should be proud that you were able to resist her tricks and deceit, and look out for you and your well bring. Take care.

Never, never, never, never give up...Winston Churchill

#466885 - 06/22/14 02:35 AM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
don64 Offline

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 1099
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Husky,

I am only now disentangling my abusive pattern. I have been in repetitive abusive situations with a church that I REALLY want to attend. The church's dogma fits me to a T--create your own theology.

I've left the church a number of times. And, every time I was trapped in blaming and demonizing a number of people. I have felt for years that nothing ever really has to do with anyone else, but is simply a reflection of myself, but have made little headway with that.

As I have continued to work diligently deeper into my abuse issues, each little layer I work through gives me a fuller perspective on myself. Just yesterday, after five years of cursing and blaming a few people in the church, I realized I project an archetypal threat on everyone and everything which has always created a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've kinda known this for a while, but the feelings are intense and have overpowered any ability at mediation with myself in the past.

However, for the first time I feel a space that can see these people as buddies who can be really obnoxious and thoughtless at times, or maybe even most of the time, but are absolutely no actual threat to me. Now, I may or may not choose to have anything to do with them. I have to learn discernment. This knowledge is new, but I feel it can strengthen and be practical within a few months.

So for me, everything I have been and everything I have done comes directly from the abusive situation I was born into. I was groomed into being who I have been the moment I was born. The only solution for me is in myself, not in others.

Sending you love and support.

Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards


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