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#466749 - 06/18/14 01:15 PM CSA and Dating Abuse
concerned_husky Offline

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 699
I was going to make a short story out of this, but I couldn't wait until it was done - it's been driving me crazy. I need to get this out, I really do, and I'd really appreciate some perspective on this.

Has anyone got themselves involved in very, very, very toxic relationships, post-abuse?

For the past week, I've been trying to process the relationship I had with my ex-girlfriend: "P". To make a horrendously long and complicated story short, she ended up lying to me about being pregnant. I've never fully opened up to anyone about how devastating my relationship with P was. Ever. She left me so damn scarred I still can't get rid of her in my mind. I've been processing it with the help of a few others for the past week or so, but today I came across a printed packet of some e-mails I had received from my ex (while we were still in contact) and it's kind of shattering my sanity.

To give some context: 2009 was when I started dealing with my abuse on my own. Really, on my own. Just psychology books that I bought, and loads and loads of articles from the internet. I hadn't discovered MS yet. It opened up a can of worms, basically invalidated everything I knew about people, and turned my world upside down. Everything was gone: my self-esteem, my sense of self-worth, my confidence...everything. Subsequently, I developed a personality that made me very susceptible to manipulation, one based on pleasing others and putting myself last, and it was in this context that I fell for P.

***May be triggery from here onwards, some sexual references***

I started dating P in August of 2011. I had known her before as friends, and we got along well. I became confused about whether I liked her as a friend or as a potential girlfriend, but before I was sure, I was basically manipulated into asking her out - by her and her friend. The relationship lasted 5 months.

Everything changed drastically after we went "official". It was bewildering, like she was a completely different person. It was toxic from the start. She was talking about "love" and marriage within a few days of dating. We had a huge fight about me getting a job (P's desire) vs. me pursuing my dreams in music (my desire). Our first break-up involved P grabbing my arm so violently it hurt, after which she hurled me towards her and screamed at me, "DO YOU LOVE ME OR NOT?! A MAN KNOWS HOW HE FEELS!" She'd guilt me and keep me off-balance by going into fits of rages every now and then to keep me tied to her. "You're my last bet." She had me believe in past lives, that she could read minds, and predict the future. She told me she was supposed to marry a man she didn't love, and that when she did, I was going to wreak havoc. She was jealous of my friends. She'd sabotage, mock or hijack all of my passions and interest, leaving me devoid of privacy of thought and a pure imagination - both of which had helped me cope with my abuse.

My CSA really affected the course of events here. I tried breaking up with her several times (my first attempt was during our first week into dating), but she kept me tied to her for five long months, sucking the life out of me like a leech, and making sure I was constantly brainwashed enough to stay in the relationship. I could not completely release myself from the bondage for a long time because I had been so well-trained to tolerate and endure abuse. Years of having to endure living under the same roof as my abuser - someone I truly hated - had conditioned me to become too intellectual and compassionate, finding every possible justification for the actions of the abuser and constantly trying to see the other side of things. I was also very impressionable at the time, gullible and susceptible to believing things without checking credentials or questioning - what I knew to be true about my family had been shattered since I "discovered" CSA, and my mind was very malleable.

Somehow, I finally managed to break up with her in November. For the rest of the month, she kept calling me and texting me, showing up at restaurants and literally having frequent crying fits in public, telling me sob-story after sob-story, bursting into tears in front of all the other customers. I kept being nice to her though, even though I practically hated her by then. I was tired of sacrificing my life to practically assume the role of a father for her (something that had been imprinted on me by my mother).

Well, one day in December, P called me up to meet her at this restaurant we went to often. She was already sitting upstairs when I arrived. I took a seat, and she was immediately down to business. "OK, do you want the bad news or the good news first?" I opted for the bad news, naturally. She says, "Well, the bad news is I'm pregnant. The good news is there's a good chance of miscarriage." Needless to say, I was stunned. I was (and still am) so not ready to be a father. Especially with her.

Here's the mind-boggling catch though - we never had sex. That's right. Never. EVER. Five months, nothing, nada. Sorry if this too much information, but I need to say this to give proper context: all she ever gave me was the odd handjob here and there. That's it.

Back to the pregnancy scare though - I actually believed it for a few hours, because...who the hell would be audacious enough to try and convince a guy that he impregnated his ex-girlfriend without having had sexual intercourse with her? I think I believed it for its sheer audacity. I questioned her, though. I asked her how it was possible without sexual intercourse. She said my sperm was "strong" and "healthy". I asked her if the baby was mine. "Do you want me to punch you?!" she screamed at me. I asked her about what colors showed up on her pregnancy tests. "How did you know about the blue and red?" she asked. I asked her why she went for check-ups (apparently she went to the hospital to get "proper medical exams") without me. "You were busy," she said. I asked her if she could go to the hospital again with me so that I could see the test results for myself. "Can't you think of me for once?!" she screamed at me. "Can I say 'no' to you for once?" Then she goes, "I'm busy with my dissertation." She started saying stuff about how she'll be a great shame to her family, that she'd have to disappear somewhere and enter a nunnery and bring up the child all by herself. "I won't jeopardize your life," she said.

Looking back, it is absolutely crazy how she almost succeeded in convincing me that I had impregnated her, but I really went home thinking that I was on the brink of becoming a father who would possibly never see his child. Honestly. I really believed it, because it was just beyond the scope of my imagination that P would lie to me about something like this - it was too outrageous. How could someone be so ruthless? So deceptive? So...evil?

So, on the off-chance possibility that I might've impregnated her (i.e. my sperm being so intelligent and powerful that after it escaped the confines of my penis, it navigated its way to my P's cooch and marched into and through her fallopian tube, whereupon it courted and fused with a doting egg), after I got home, I buried myself deep deep deep into pregnancy literature, and eventually worked out for myself that P physically couldn't have turned out positive results so soon - at least not as a result of pregnancy - when taking into account when she had last given me a handjob. God, I feel so stupid as I write this, but I was super naive and super trusting. I had to be sure. That's the thing with me - I had to be 100% sure. Anyway, I was really relieved that I had worked it out logically. I called her out on her BS. I sent her an e-mail accusing her of lying. I told her I was cutting her out of my life.

This is the e-mail she sent me in reply:


"I don't know what to say, on what you have actually processed. If you really thought it was a lie, then fine I'm okay with it and I will accept your accusations without trying to defend or deny because least I want to do is lose a friend that I thought I had. I was scared to death up until today, I cannot prove anything to you and it's probably worthless trying to prove anything to you. You can go see the doctor with me, but that will not fix anything, sometimes people just need to trust others that they are not trying to manipulative or make the other person suffer.

Can I just say this though, if it was a lie:
Let's say Scenario 1:
I lie to get you back (which is the most pitiful thing that I will ever do), then why the hell would I care to just disappear and tell you not to worry about your life being ruined?
Scenario 2: I lie to, I don't know, annoy you? If I remember right, it was you who said "tell me", why the hell would I put myself through the nightmare anyway? When I have work to do?

Unless you think I'm a psychopath in need of you so badly that I cannot live my own life without you, give me one good reason why the hell you ever come up with that resolution, so I can at least rest in peace without killing myself that I literally gave myself to the person whom I should not even bother with in the first place.

So it's your right to take it whatever way you wanted, it's like you asking that day "if there's a way to test"...once a trust is lost it's lost. You told me to tell you whatever happens, I did, as it happened, even though I did not want to do so today, because I had a feeling this was coming up.

Don't bother changing or deleting anything. I don't like grudges and I'm not going to eve state a single word to you. Reply to this email saying: I don't want to see you again. That is all I need, I'll delete myself, and whatever consequences that came from this out of your life and consider it book closed. This is my last request."


Oh the nerve. The nerve she had to send that to me. It's making my blood boil now, especially because I know it was a lie. I immediately sent her a reply which simply said "SCREW YOU" in capital letters. I blocked her on my email and shut off my phone. Next day, she shows up at the house I was lodging in, standing with a bouquet of roses, (crocodile) tears running down her face, apologizing to me for lying.

Here's the next messed up thing, though. I made her take pregnancy tests that day, buying various sets of pregnancy test kits, and had her show the results to me. She turned out positive on a couple of them. I had read enough to know that sometimes the tests give back false positives. A part of me - the goddamn innocent kid in me who thinks the world is perfect and harmless - thinks that P misinterpreted the false positives as a sign of her being pregnant, and subsequently, in a panic, called me up and told me of the news she hadn't quite processed. The other part of me - the cynic, the adult me - begs to differ. He says it was a calculated act of deception designed to instil feelings of guilt and shame, as well as a belief so toxic that it would've tied me to P for the rest of my life.

And somehow, somehow, even after all that, P managed to persuade me into re-establishing contact with her after a month's "break" - she was demanding that I keep in touch with her, after all that, and fully expected the demand to be fulfilled. She promptly emailed me in January, whereupon I promptly deleted that e-mail account.

Fast-forward to February. I'm stressed out - I'm back living with my parents, I had a failed surgery attempt on a fractured finger, and I'm miserable. I'm at a mall, happily binging on a couple of greasy drumsticks at KFC. I was just starting to delve into my second drumstick, when all of a sudden, I heard this loud THUD on the table. I looked up, and I saw P, towering over me like an amazon. She was glaring at me, gritting her teeth, practically fuming from her nose and ears. She looked like she wanted to kill me. "I want to kill you!" she proceeded to scream at me. She screamed some other things, like how she wanted to punch me in the face and so forth, but I kept it cool and convinced her to accompany me to a coffee shop, where we could have a chat. She said a lot of things to me that day, and she tried pulling more than a few strings. She told me how she apparently tried to kill herself by overdosing on sleeping pills. I didn't give a rat's ass. She had the nerve to say she was "sexually harassed" (I had told her ages ago about my mother sleeping with me, to which she had replied, "That's normal, no?") The thing that haunts me most, though, is this: as we were making our way from KFC to the coffee shop, she told me: "I haven't admitted this to anyone, but I'm a pathological liar." No shit, I thought. It was good to get confirmation from her, though. That's one thing I'm grateful for - perhaps the only thing I'm grateful for. She then added, "I now keep a tally of how many times I lie everyday."

Well, there's your first tally of the day.


I know this was a long post, so if you've read it all the way, really - thank you. If some of this seems incredulous - I can assure you, all of these events are coming straight out of my journals. And it is by no means a comprehensive account of my experiences with P.

Whatever shreds of innocence I had managed to salvage from CSA, P robbed of me. I remember back in the days of my abuse, every night before going to sleep (and summoning my mother to sleep with me as she lay dozing off in front of the TV on the rocking chair), I would spend a couple of hours locked in my room. I'd turn the lights off, and I'd have this beautiful photo of a starry night on my computer screen. It was a photo of the Southern Cross: This is the actual photo I had. Then, I'd listen to Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto in C Minor. I'd stare into the screen, and I'd really dissociate, allowing myself to become absorbed in a fantasy world where I was the only human being alive, gazing upon the stars lighting that dark, vast and expansive night sky, sitting on top of those hills, feeling a comforting calmness and serenity that my mind came to conceptualize as love. Those were my pillars, my anchors that kept me safe in those dark times - nature, stars, and music. It was my own world, a world kept in secret from everyone else - a world that was heavily guarded, a world that I could escape to, a world where I could reclaim my innocence and youthful vitality. At least in that world, I could forget everything that was happening to me - all the abuse, which I knew in my guts to be wrong, but was still unable to properly label, lacking the language and the concepts. At least in that world, I was safe, shielded from the rest of the world. That was how I coped those days - I escaped into a rich fantasy world.

I made the mistake of sharing this world with P when we were still dating. I was played, oh so magnificently. I trusted her, I cared about her, I allowed myself to become vulnerable around her, and I had opened up my most intensely guarded inner life to her. And what she did, she opened up my heart and took a big shit in it. Now, I cannot look at stars, or look at beautiful forests or trees, or listen to music, without having an image of her face intruding my thoughts. I cannot venture too freely into my imagination anymore, because she has invaded and occupied it. It was the only place I could go to, sometimes - my imagination, and the beautiful, untainted, pure world that it concocted - to escape from what I've realized to be an increasingly hostile and dangerous world. Alas, no more. I've yet to come to fully come to terms with another bulk of my innocence lost at the hands of a demon. As if CSA wasn't enough, I was tainted even more.

I still hope for a day when I can regain that innocence and purity of imagination, something that had hitherto given me so much energy and inspiration to overcome some of the toughest obstacles I faced in my life. But it's gone - perhaps gone for good, only to be replaced with an image of P's sneering face to constantly occupy my mind.

I don't understand how someone could be so purely evil, how someone could mess me up even more than I already was.

Wasn't CSA enough? Why? What did I do to deserve another layer?

#466750 - 06/18/14 01:38 PM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
NoSimpleMachine Offline

Registered: 06/05/14
Posts: 223
Loc: SF Bay Area
This sounds incredibly shocking to face and cope with...probably very surreal...but I hope it helps to hear that, reading it from the outside, it makes a lot of sense.

As an abuse survivor yourself, it is very natural to be very compliant and trusting in the face of others, particularly those who are erratic or threatening like she is. So you can feel naive for almost falling for her pregnancy scare, but you were just doing something very common and understandable for an abuse victim. Bravo to you for recognizing an abusive situation and extracting yourself from it. It's really terrifying to do that for the first time because it goes against all your embedded learning, but that's precisely why it's so healthy.

As for her, is she evil? Probably not. She's definitely manipulative, but her manipulation is probably a symptom of her own problems in life. She clearly has a big hole in her heart that she wants to fill with a partner, thinks it will make her life better, and probably used the pregnancy notion and all her associated guilting of you to try to trap you into it.

Your conversation with her later on in the mall confirmed that.

She's a messed up person with her own traumas that she needs to handle, and it sounds like she's getting started. You're not the father of her child and you don't owe her companionship, answers to her problems, or support in her journey. You're not in a position to provide it and you're not obligated. You also have nothing to gain by tracking her progress, for her sake or your own.

But you owe it to yourself to see her as a complete person who has turned to some damaging habits to cope with how she developed, and that you both share that background. It's probably a big part of why you were drawn to each other in the first place. You owe that to yourself because it takes her from being an example of "anything can be a threat" in your life and moves her to "real people aren't perfect and it's OK for me to choose my relationships based on how I'm treated by others and how they make me feel in my life". The former way of looking at things is a continuation of abuse. The latter is a healthy, self-loving view out to the world.

Edited by NoSimpleMachine (06/18/14 01:47 PM)
If I know only one thing it's that everything that I see
Of the world outside is so inconceivable often I barely can speak
Yeah I'm tongue-tied and dizzy and I can't keep it to myself
What good is it to sing Helplessness Blues, why should I wait for anyone else?

#466752 - 06/18/14 02:11 PM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
Sven Offline

Registered: 07/29/13
Posts: 420
Husky, I don't have any intelligent comments for you, like NSM, but I wanted to atleast reply. Say I read it and that I feel for you...
I haven't really been in anything similar but I can understand how things like this can shatter your last bit of sanity and trust in the world. Keep writing...
In the howling wind
Comes a stinging rain
See it driving nails
Into souls on the tree of pain
From the firefly a red orange glow
See the face of fear
Running scared in the valley below
~ Bullet The Blue Sky - U2

#466759 - 06/18/14 09:03 PM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
sadclown Offline

Registered: 02/27/14
Posts: 58
You ask a question I have asked myself a bajillion times, over many years, to many people, in many states of conciousness- "Why are people like this? Why me? Didn't I already suffer enough!?!"

Many drunks, many drug benders, many broken possessions, many outbursts, many nights spent sobbing from the time I was 7 until a few weeks ago,and many stupid arguments bring me back to the same answer every time.

That is simply, some people are evil. Some are not evil, but are not good either. Some people are so purely selfish that they will manipulate you. Some people are so predatory they will pick out who may make good prey, cultivate him, exploit him for all he has, and refuse to take any accountability. You, my friend, met a such predator. Plain and simple.

I recall the sting you describe. In many ways, the family I had who beat me and the man who turned me into his pet operated in many of the same ways, with many of the same tactics you describe. Of course, details were different, but the format of the deceit was very similar in many ways to the examples you cited. It's just a predatory metric and be they child molesters or abusive spouses, they follow some very similar tactics.

One sad truth about guys who had the experiences we had is that we are almost uniformly starved for love in a way most adults are not; we show it in many different ways from clingly desperation to a robotic stoicism, but almost all of us have a void of love and connection we would sell our souls to fill. We keep our childish need for love (whether we admit it or not) and yes, that can get us in trouble sometimes. But no matter how you stack it, predators will ALWAYS exist, they have ALWAYS existed, and probably will go away around the same time the Sun engulfs the Earth in around 5 billion years. But, that is in no way a reflection of you; and this time you were NOT prey. You were stalked, yes; the predator got close- maybe too close- hiding in the tall grass. But you outran her; you DID beat her at her own game. You heard something that didn't jive, you informed yourself and called BS. You felt like she was being inappropriate, called her on it, drew boundaries, and most importantly you enforced them. On the contrary, were we in the same area I would buy you a drink to celebrate. You did something really hard, something that while made trickier by our experiences, is something so many people in all walks of life everywhere have trouble with. Kudos, man. You should pat yourself on the back for your success!

Does it hurt that this happened? Yeah, yeah it does. And it will. And it should. It was hurtful and you are human. But next time, you can see someone like her coming and avoid it before it happens. That is really all you can do here. Record, evaluate, learn, move on. You're far from the only guy who met a sheisty girl who played a hurtful game with him and left a wound. In fact, it seems like you have to go through at least one or two of them before you can find the good one. It seems to be a pretty standard learning curve.

To answer you question, "Why?". The answer is simply, "Because". To answer your question, "Wasn't CSA enough?", the answer is simply, "There is no metric- no limit. What happens, happens. You didn't deserve it, but you got it."

Sorry to get buddhist on you here, but its the raw simplicity of the situation. She had some bad traits and was not good for you. Move on to the next experience.

But first, pat yourself on the back for identifying and solving the situation. That was clever and courageous. You deserve the credit for that
My Story

"There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed"- Ernest Hemingway

#466883 - 06/22/14 12:46 AM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
Bluedogone Offline

Registered: 07/03/13
Posts: 540
Loc: Southeast US
Hi Husky,

Except for the pregnancy scare your story sounds hauntingly familiar to a situation I was in many many years ago. Mutual friends (?) kept insisting we would make an ideal couple and I should jump at the chance to date B. I was like a good many dudes who've experienced CSA, and a real live affectionate girl, almost any girl, was more than I could hope for. Plus, it sort of proved to me that I wasn't damaged defective goods and could have a normal relationship, not just attract the unhealthy needy predators that was my sexual experience.

On the first date with B it got very, very serious. I didn't even consider the possibility of sex, but she assured me she was on the pill, so what the hell. This should probably have been the first warning sign, but instead was a boost to my ego, and only proved what a great lover I was, (lol). Our relationship only got more intense, and I was in what I thought of as love. After about a month or so, like a sharp body blow to the gut she told me she was married, was very unhappy in her marriage, was soon getting a divorce, and we could get married the following February. I already had more trust issues than I could deal with, and this news put me in a downward spiral. Why didn't she tell me she was married up front? Why didn't the friends who kept trying to set us up tell me? One of these girls was her best friend, did she just forget to mention the marriage and pending divorce? I was naive enough to think this type deception just doesn't happen.

I don't think love ever had anything to do with our relationship, but starting out without mentioning the marriage stopped any thoughts of marriage for me. But I was the only one who thought it was a good idea to cool it, and maybe reassess where we're headed.

This was before emails were so widespread, but the phone calls and visits at work started like crazy, and two of the girls who worked in my office gave me a daily report and almost daily grilling of what was going on between me and B. The guilt, self blame, anger and/or humiliation became the center of my emotions. These same exact emotions were from CSA, and here they were again. She insisted we meet face to face and plan our future. As difficult as it was I refused to feel any guilt over my decision to end our relationship. It took quite a while to finally get over any feelings, in spite of the emotional blackmail that she gave me.

But here's the good part, it does get better. I hope you'll consider when all the questions you ask come up. And when you long for the day when that sense of innocence and purity with your music returns and can escape to a rich fantasy world, it does get better.

In spite of my encounter with B so many years ago, I survived the whole thing, and have since been married to a wonderful wife, and raised two very productive sons.

I don't know if P was evil or not, but I do know she really knew how to play the guilt card with you. You should be proud that you were able to resist her tricks and deceit, and look out for you and your well bring. Take care.

Never, never, never, never give up....Winston Churchill

#466885 - 06/22/14 02:35 AM Re: CSA and Dating Abuse [Re: concerned_husky]
don64 Offline

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 1054
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Husky,

I am only now disentangling my abusive pattern. I have been in repetitive abusive situations with a church that I REALLY want to attend. The church's dogma fits me to a T--create your own theology.

I've left the church a number of times. And, every time I was trapped in blaming and demonizing a number of people. I have felt for years that nothing ever really has to do with anyone else, but is simply a reflection of myself, but have made little headway with that.

As I have continued to work diligently deeper into my abuse issues, each little layer I work through gives me a fuller perspective on myself. Just yesterday, after five years of cursing and blaming a few people in the church, I realized I project an archetypal threat on everyone and everything which has always created a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've kinda known this for a while, but the feelings are intense and have overpowered any ability at mediation with myself in the past.

However, for the first time I feel a space that can see these people as buddies who can be really obnoxious and thoughtless at times, or maybe even most of the time, but are absolutely no actual threat to me. Now, I may or may not choose to have anything to do with them. I have to learn discernment. This knowledge is new, but I feel it can strengthen and be practical within a few months.

So for me, everything I have been and everything I have done comes directly from the abusive situation I was born into. I was groomed into being who I have been the moment I was born. The only solution for me is in myself, not in others.

Sending you love and support.

Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards


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