Newest Members
susanhepp, Breathe, georgetwo, frozen45, lilac
12291 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Guillermo (37), illbedat (26), Mike58 (56), Mnovit (38), Mongo (24), pwdasw (64), Raymond Sean (38), yesac76 (38)
Who's Online
3 registered (Jwmcd2, 86, 1 invisible), 19 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12291 Members
73 Forums
63236 Topics
442193 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#462994 - 03/22/14 11:21 PM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1292
Originally Posted By: Jude
"Shame is the lie someone told you about yourself" -Anais Nin

Sounds nice and certainly true for many of us survivors, but would that be true in the case of an abuser finally owning his? Sometimes, shame is proper. In our case it is merely misplaced. This shame belongs to him, not me. And that's no lie.
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

Top
#462999 - 03/23/14 12:08 AM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1490
Loc: New England
Again, Shame is one of those words that can have subtle variations in meaning.

Some have described Toxic Shame, which says "I am bad"; verses Healthy Shame which says "What I did was bad".

Others simply use Shame, which says "I am bad"; verses Guilt which says "What I did was bad".

Whichever you choose to call it, "I am bad" has been the message to me for most of my life. It's what I've believed about my core self, and want desperately to overcome. The question in my original post is HOW?!?
_________________________
"But now old friends are acting strange,
they shake their heads, they say I've changed.
Something's lost but something's gained in living every day
....it's life's illusions I recall, I really don't know life at all. "
Joni Mitchell

Top
#463005 - 03/23/14 02:05 AM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
justplainme Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 270
Love that quote.
_________________________

"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

Top
#463006 - 03/23/14 02:06 AM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
justplainme Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 270
I have heard their is also maintain shame, a self shaming cycle.
_________________________

"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

Top
#463009 - 03/23/14 03:32 AM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 608
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Jude,

I've read that love and compassion is the only balance to power, that fighting the thought forms of power imbalance may not be the best way. Since all my stuff comes about as a result of massive abuse of power, I send love and compassion and intend love and compassion to all those places in myself that I know are not true, but have difficulty dealing with. I've lived with "I am bad" my whole life. The litany goes on as it comes from an immature, incorporated belief system designed to try to keep me from harm. So, "I am bad, mean, ugly, stupid...." The list is creative and seemingly without end. It took me a long time to quit fighting these places in myself, but with sending love and compassion the fighting myself eventually stopped.

I've been working on this directly about 11 years now, and fighting myself stopped around a year ago when I finally began to remember the sexual abuse and torture from my mother. What is occurring to me is that as I learn what I'm beginning to call healthy, universal laws which generalize to any situation, my sick thinking is slowly diminishing and my healthy thinking growing. It's working for me, and I finally, at soon to be 65, am having episodes of optimism.

Best of luck to you.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

Top
#463131 - 03/25/14 01:34 PM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
jas4159 Offline


Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 278
i agree, Shame is the great silencer of innocents. it is a cancer of the soul and the foundation for so much of what we suffer. heal the wounds and heal the shame. a lot easier said than done.\

thanks for posting.
_________________________
Thanks

rich

justanothersurvivror.wordpress.com

Top
#463173 - 03/25/14 09:30 PM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 469
Loc: UK
I think in families like mine where the basic bonding and safety that a child needs did not happen it is a difficult thing to change. My feeling is that the shame was well in place in very early childhood. When bad things happen to the child the child believes they are bad. Because of what was happening at home I was a 'bad' child at school and I guess the shame and 'bad' behaviour cut me off from having more positive relationships or experiences outside the home, this of course compounded the belief that I was inherently bad.
This kind of shame is immune to any adult successes or relationships, I can mask the shame in my adult self but when it is triggered it feels sort of like an inner collapse. What Don said makes sense to me, any progress I have made with the shame that says 'I am bad' has been made by getting in touch with my child self. Working through the incidents I remember where the shame was created and going over them and coming to a more compassionate conclusion about 'my role' in whatever happened. It is about loving the boys we were. For me it is not just about csa, it can be about other abuse or just the harsh unloving atmosphere in my childhood.

Top
#463178 - 03/25/14 11:04 PM Re: Shame [Re: Jude]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 323
Loc: NY
Jude:

It's hard to root out these beliefs. It seems easy to give in. But, as others have said here, the power of love and connectedness, compassion and great empathy, and the willingness to witness others and what they have lived--these help me find the ability to push on and remain hopeful that what is not true can be given up as what should be believed.

If you're looking for concrete approaches to doing this, I can suggest Internal Family Systems therapy and also the book, "The Trances People Live".

Peace,

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

Top
#463587 - 04/02/14 11:42 PM Shame Revisited [Re: Jude]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1490
Loc: New England
Shame continues to be a haunting fearsome presence in my life. I have disclosed my CSA and self-destructive efforts to cope with it, to a number of people, written about it, even spoken about it in front of groups. I have always been well received, yet when I think about it, my first thought is always that people will be disgusted by me when they hear about it. My first feeling is always that of the boy I was, desperate to keep it all a secret. Unable to bear the idea of anyone knowing.

Now I can usually recognize those thoughts and feelings for what they are in fairly short order, move through them, and regain my rationality. But must I always go there to begin with?

Its part of what makes all this so exhausting. Constantly having to be vigilant about my thoughts, feelings, and actions. Always being on guard, just to be able to function in a job, family, and relationships. Never being able to just let myself go. And what if I did? What would that accomplish? A full blown panic attack in the middle of a staff meeting? A flashback while meeting with a client? More shame for me! I am fucked either way.

Sorry, this turned into something of a rant. Sometimes I'm just tired of holding it all together. But not holding it together is worse. Getting drunk, high, laid, none of it works anymore to take away the feelings. Guess I'll just have to feel them all. Every rotten stinking feeling.

Top
#463614 - 04/03/14 01:27 PM Re: Shame Revisited [Re: Jude]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 608
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Jude,

My experience is none of my numbing or avoidance efforts last for ever. I'm down to compulsive eating, ice cream maintenance therapy, and panic anxiety medication. I'm not trying to avoid feeling with any of these, however. I have to be very careful to manage how much I can deal with at one time. I'm 64 now, and just wore out on the ability to manage stress in my mid fifties. I could no longer work. Shaking and crying are under-appreciated in the work force. Since I was forced to see that the only thing I could do was stop and focus on myself, I've moved through a lot of stuff. And, a main one is to stop and rest as often as I need to. My experience is I DO have to feel "every rotten stinking feeling." But, I have to be very sensitive about how much I can manage. I choose to live to fight another day.

Sending you love and support,

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.