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#461717 - 02/28/14 11:07 AM Re: Gay or Str8 - Nature vs Nurture [Re: Lazarus]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 5405
Loc: O Kanada
i really like what you posted, Lazarus.
thoughtful and thought-provoking.

i also appreciate what you have to say, WalkingSouth.

i have thoughts and experiences which do not seem to fall into any convenient category.
a complex issue, to say the least.
people are MORE than labels.
as soon as we try to label ourselves, we discover that labels are inadequate and confining.
identities can be limiting as well as liberating.
having raised three children, i generally agree with you about "nature coded from birth".
while there are similarities...
all three of my children are completely unique characters, with their own value systems, and each views their childhood from a different perspective.
one would think they were raised in separate homes.

i have always believed that sexual orientation can not be "nurtured", because, as far as i know, most people who identify as "gay" were raised by heterosexual parents. i don't know anyone who has homosexual parents.
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#461722 - 02/28/14 12:00 PM Re: Gay or Str8 - Nature vs Nurture [Re: victor-victim]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1962
Originally Posted By: victor-victim
i don't know anyone who has homosexual parents.

Thanks, Victor - I agree with what you said but thought it worth mentioning here that I know a few gay couples raising adopted kids. None of those kids have turned out to be gay so far, and I suppose that could be taken as further evidence in support of your "nurture" contention.
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#461775 - 02/28/14 10:38 PM Re: Gay or Str8 - Nature vs Nurture [Re: Lazarus]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 925
Loc: New York
There are lots of straight-acting closeted gay parents.

This is not really an answerable question, because human sexual desire covers such a broad spectrum, and sexual BEHAVIOR an even broader one, sometimes not really guided by carnal desire at all. Then take something as complicated as that and add centuries of cultural norms and taboos worldwide, and back through to antiquity.

People can have primary desires, and root that as a major anchor for their identity. But there's never been a gene found that causes being gay, as 21st century Americans understand the conceit to mean, nor will one ever be found.


Matt
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"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of Heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#482387 - 05/16/15 11:19 PM Re: Gay or Str8 - Nature vs Nurture [Re: Lazarus]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 5405
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: Lazarus
Gay or Str8


Originally Posted By: Victor-Victim
Gr8

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#482475 - 05/18/15 06:12 PM Re: Gay or Str8 - Nature vs Nurture [Re: Lazarus]
banterings Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 31
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
I just want to chime in here, I did a really in-dept look at these issues in my post Trans porn, bisexuality, crossdressing, surviving.

Gabbahey, from the references you listed, I believe that you will find this interesting!

It is really worth reading. It also addresses the issue of trans and homosexual.

jessedawg, the situation that you mention (daughter sometimes feels like a boy, sometimes feels like a girl) is something that I deal with everyday. There is a classic (no right answer) questions that therapists ask people who are transitioning:

I have 2 pills in my hands, a red and a blue. Take the red and your body changes to match the gender of your brain. Take the blue and your brain changes to match the gender of your body. Which do you take?

My answer is neither. There are times I like being a male, and times that I like being a female. As a male I am heterosexual, I am only attracted to women (MTF transexuals included). As a female I am bisexual; attracted to both men and women. This is not multiple personalities, it is always me. (You think regular bisexuality is hard to explain...)

I saw the quote:

Quote:
if you choose to label yourself bisexual---neither world accepts you or trusts you. I know, I've been there


There is a false assumption here that permeates our society, and that is I need to have my gay or straight "union card stamped" to be validated. I could care less what any group OR even society things of me. Whether it is the fundamentalist right, the the gay movement, the civil rights [minority] movement, the feminist movement, etc. to validate who I am as a person.

These are just groups trying to hold on to power by tying their relevance to the validation of individuals (their members). There have been a backlash by WOMEN against the feminist movement. Here is just one example: 15 Sassy Photos Show Why These Women are Rejecting the Feminist Movement. (If you need further references, I will provide them.)

What is driving this?

$$$ MONEY $$$

How much money is tied to all these nonprofits whether they be megachurches, civil rights organizations, female empowerment organizations (think women's shelters, women's studies departments in universities), and the list goes on. The same has been said of cancer, there is more money in treating it than curing it. (See: NY Times and Slate)

Remember the 1977 sitcom Soap? One of the best lines from that was by Jody (played by Billy Crystal). Jody was gay and trying to get custody of his daughter (long plot line). He was asked if he was a "practicing homosexual." His response was, "I don't have to practice, I am d**n good at it!" That is how I feel about all these groups.

At one time they served a necessary purpose (and some still do), but most are just businesses. Unions at one time protected workers from employers who did not care about workers or their safety ( Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire). Others made their money on the backs and lives of their workers ( coal mine company store ).

Today the biggest unions are teachers and government employees. Is our government such an evil employer with such unsafe conditions and so low pay (pensions) that government employees need unions?

Let me leave with this final thought:

Quote:
Well, Freud said that the only unnatural sexual behavior was to have none at all. And after that, it's just a question of opportunity and preference. -Gil Grissom (CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, CBS)


Just my thoughts.
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Sending you love, strength, and serenity.

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Godsmack's "Serenity." I sing it as a prayer asking God for serenity.

My story:

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