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#461246 - 02/21/14 11:03 PM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
Adam A Gedman Offline


Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 188
Loc: Canada
ttr, I wanted to weigh in here as perhaps I see things a little differently.

I wanted to be clear in my mind what exactly judgement was, as I have had quite visceral reactions to feeling judged by others, as it seems you have too.

I think we tend to confuse judgement and evaluations, so I went on a hunt for something to clear my own confusion on the subject.

I came across an article by Richard Bishop in the Huffington Post, who had described the two in a way that made it clear to me the difference.
He describes the difference like this.

If you look at two different light sources, say the sun and a candle. An evaluation of the two would simply state that one was much brighter than the other. This I see as an evaluation without judgement.
Where as judging the two would have us see one was too bright and the other not bright enough.
Evaluations seem to me to be analytical in nature, and judgements have a critical feel to them and are emotional in nature.

Without singling anyone out, this very thread resulted in very polarized opinions (my own evaluation), who is to say who is right, as emotion begins to cloud the issue. But if we each were able to evaluate another's post, without judgement, we can disagree, agree or have no opinion, and emotion doesn't seep into our expressions.

So I would disagree with most, in that, I don't think we need judgements, where as I do think we need to be able to evaluate. If we do so, without letting emotion take over, we can make better choices, decisions etc.

I still do not like judging, it leaves me with a false sense of superiority. Being judged leaves me feeling inferior.
I don't know about you, but I don't particularly like those feelings, I don't see that they serve my needs, so I try to avoid them, not always successfully, but I try.


Edited by Adam A Gedman (02/21/14 11:11 PM)
_________________________
Presence is the key, for all we have is now.
All we ever have is right now.

Formerly Adam A Gedman (AKA - A damAGed man)

But you can call me Kevin

Toronto Mini WoR - May 2014

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#461251 - 02/22/14 12:00 AM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 731
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
I'm with you Adam. Judgment, in my experience, tends to be evaluative and emotional, implying less than/better than, right/wrong, good/bad. Those don't work for me.

I have come to like the word discernment. I like to simply arrive at what I feel is best for me without needing anyone else to think the way I do or to agree with me.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#461254 - 02/22/14 12:14 AM Re: Judgement [Re: don64]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
my family has been active in the 4H club for almost ten years.
my daughters are presidents, champions and judges.
they take judging very serious.
it is considered a life skill which they teach.


this is an excerpt from the "4H Judging Manual"

Let’s Judge
Judging is an activity that many 4-H clubs do. If you take the time to learn a few basic
steps judging can be an enjoyable and challenging activity.
Why do we judge in 4-H?
There is so much more to judging than simply putting animals or items in the same order
as the official judge. Judging in 4-H helps us to:
Develop Confidence
Communicate
Make Decisions
Evaluate
Learn


How do you judge?
There are some specific steps that you can follow to make your judging easier. It doesn’t
matter whether you are judging in a judging competition, a show ring or a pasture, the
steps are the same. Becoming familiar with these nine steps and working through them
in order every time you judge will help to make judging easier.
1. Picture the ideal item or animal.
Before you start judging any class, picture the ideal in your
mind. What does the perfect market steer look like? What about
the perfect loaf of bread? In your mind, or even on a sheet of
paper, list the qualities that you feel are important in a perfect
item. Rank them in order of importance.
2. Prepare to compare.
Judging is determining the advantages
an animal or item has over the next. Force
yourself to think comparatively. Think about comparative terms you
might use in your reasons. These terms are words ending in “er” and
phrases with more or less in them. Your comparative terms should be
positive.
3. View from a distance.
4. View from the front and the rear.
5. Move in for a closer examination.
6. View again from a distance.
7. Build a picture.
8. Make your decision.
9. Mark your cards.

Hints for easier judging:
• Select the easiest placings first
• Do your own judging
• Your first impression is usually correct
• Keep comparing
• Remember - reasons are important

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#461263 - 02/22/14 08:15 AM Re: Judgement [Re: Adam A Gedman]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Adam A Gedman
ttr, I wanted to weigh in here as perhaps I see things a little differently.

I wanted to be clear in my mind what exactly judgement was, as I have had quite visceral reactions to feeling judged by others, as it seems you have too.

I think we tend to confuse judgement and evaluations, so I went on a hunt for something to clear my own confusion on the subject.

I came across an article by Richard Bishop in the Huffington Post, who had described the two in a way that made it clear to me the difference.
He describes the difference like this.

If you look at two different light sources, say the sun and a candle. An evaluation of the two would simply state that one was much brighter than the other. This I see as an evaluation without judgement.
Where as judging the two would have us see one was too bright and the other not bright enough.
Evaluations seem to me to be analytical in nature, and judgements have a critical feel to them and are emotional in nature.

Without singling anyone out, this very thread resulted in very polarized opinions (my own evaluation), who is to say who is right, as emotion begins to cloud the issue. But if we each were able to evaluate another's post, without judgement, we can disagree, agree or have no opinion, and emotion doesn't seep into our expressions.

So I would disagree with most, in that, I don't think we need judgements, where as I do think we need to be able to evaluate. If we do so, without letting emotion take over, we can make better choices, decisions etc.

I still do not like judging, it leaves me with a false sense of superiority. Being judged leaves me feeling inferior.
I don't know about you, but I don't particularly like those feelings, I don't see that they serve my needs, so I try to avoid them, not always successfully, but I try.


Sometimes we honestly judge ourselves as at fault.

Partial playing, as in partisan politics, hurts that feeling of fairness IMO. So if I suspect someone of a hidden agenda, I can't fully accept their opinion evaluation, judgements.

I was on a jury once. Ironically a CSA case. I ended up believing the man was innocent. It was a fact based judgement that cut across my initial feelings. I also discerned I was wrong at first. A hidden agenda. I hate child molesters. He was guilty until proven innocent.

Nice thread. It causes thought. I admit fully to judging the hard core unreasoning left and right extremes in opinion as rubbish. And that is ok. The opinion is rubbish, the person has all of the intrinsic value of a person.

The whole idea that if one differs in opinion from the collective, they are out of line and need correction is quite reminiscent of Hitler, Stalin, Khan, and other rulers of the stripe.

My philosophy is to embrace all people. But if you disagree with my philosophy, I can't embrace you.....

How ridiculous is that? PC in a nutshell.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#461273 - 02/22/14 11:28 AM Re: Judgement [Re: don64]
OCN Offline


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 270
Loc: Western Europe
Originally Posted By: don64
I'm with you Adam. Judgment, in my experience, tends to be evaluative and emotional, implying less than/better than, right/wrong, good/bad. Those don't work for me.

I have come to like the word discernment. I like to simply arrive at what I feel is best for me without needing anyone else to think the way I do or to agree with me.

Don

Thats what i was going to say too.. Discernment..
_________________________
Trust me, you are worth it to love yourself!

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