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#460652 - 02/13/14 05:06 PM Judgement
timetorecover Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 12
Loc: Mi
Perhaps others can help me with their experience of Judging, being judged, and judgement:

I just got out of individual therapy and I felt something when noticing a simple judgement of my own. the judgement isn't important...just something simple, like a strategy, about how something should be. it was my own evaluation system about what is a good therapist vs. a bad therapist.

It was a good judgement ... we have to have judgememnts ... and yet when I shared it with my therapist I felt a twinge of a tear...like sadness...or shame...of that I had a judgement. and so it goes with my fear of being judged by others.

which for me goes back to the everyday FEAR that I had during teenage years that I would be judged as gay or as wrong if the world knew about my secret life.

so judgement is a big thing in the problem area of my life. FEAR of being judged...and mean unfair judgements of others (which are really mean and unfair judgements against myself)

so any thoughts, help, suggestions?

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#460654 - 02/13/14 06:07 PM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1410
Loc: California
There's one thing I took away from my years as a christian (I'm no longer one) ...

"Just not lest ye be judged".

I'm of the firm belief that this is so fundamentally true. As we judge others, we actually judge ourselves.

At 42 years of age, with enough hindsight behind me, and trying to recover from childhood neglect and CSA issues; I now see that all the judgment I had was actually of myself. All the horrendous things I thought of myself - they were not things that others thought of me - they were assumptions I made about what they must be thinking of me. the truth is, I have no idea what they're thinking. And yet I judge them for thinking bad things about me.

It was all in my head. Well, most of it anyways. If someone *is* judging me, it's not about me, it's about them. As they judge, so shall they be judged.

My 2 cents.
_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#460683 - 02/14/14 12:13 AM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
as you said, timetorecover, we have to have judgements.
without it, we could never make a decision or choice,
and that unending uncertainty and infinite indecision would lead to zero actions and no production.
our lives would stand still without the skill to judge.

i work best with deadlines and schedules and budgets.
this forces me to make a judgement based on the best available information.
otherwise i would be forever deliberating and debating.
when a decision is required by deadline...
i always do the right thing, based on the best data, then be prepared to be proven wrong by better data.

at which point my motto is...
adapt, evolve, mutate, or die.

For now we see through a glass, darkly;
but then face to face: now I know in part;
but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1 Corinthians 13:12

as far as being judged... i remember being terrified that someone would find out what happened, i was worried that they would think i was gay (social suicide in my suburban surrey street surroundings),
or that it was my fault, or that they would think i was tainted or stained and would reject me as damaged goods.
i did what i could to hide my history.
once it all came out anyway, i learned to accept the rejection,
and to reject the rejectors. good riddance.
false friends fell away from me.
i also met a whole new superior class of people that did not reject me,
but also did not blindly accept any negative attitudes and behaviours and baggage causing bad habits.
people whose judgement i have learned to trust over time.
in the end, my life became better, because i was able to weed out the judgementally retarded.


_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#460703 - 02/14/14 06:26 AM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
We all judge things, situations, people. Beware of misquoted bible passages.

It is great you are able to make observations and decisions. Owning them!

I think the PC movement stating everything is right and ok fosters the anti judgement foolishness.

The NAMBLA predators like to misquote the judgement verse. They are pedophiles!
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#460731 - 02/14/14 02:43 PM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
ttc- I appreciate your comments on judgement. It seems 'most individuals spend quite a bit of time in the judgment of their fellows. It is an effort on their part to become superior, to keep the one being judged in their place, to remain morally or socially or spiritually on a seemingly higher ground. We all do in fact judge others, although it is not our place to do so in the general sense.

Generally speaking, and I do mean generally speaking, if someone's spiritual absolute is different than mine, so be it. If I meet not their expectations, so be it. They are free to judge me. Do rest assured, I shall judge them based on my own beliefs and interactions with them. So it definitely is a two way street.

Judgement has been around since civilization began… even before. With respect, it has nothing to do with "political correctness". And OTF… in this discussion of an honest concern about the fear of being judged, which most of us as victims and survivors of sexual abuse deal with almost daily, I am confused as to why you would allude to Magellan as misquoting a verse from the Bible and even more confused why you might desire to include NAMBLA as a reference for justifying your judgement in general. You have just confused me is all, but for some reason it has struck an odd chord (which means, I just noticed it).
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#460785 - 02/15/14 10:07 AM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
I have experienced a bit of prejudice against people of faith. There is a strong anti judeo Christian current in many popular liberal teachings.

Lots of people misquote and misconstrue the Judgement verse.

And yes, the pedophile group NAMBLA does indeed use that twisted version of the verse in justification of their perversion.

Judgements that have hit me the hardest we the ones where I accepted and internalized the macho social constructs of what a man is. The strong silent type. Never hurt or abused. Always in control.

Those were the things when I judged myself, and as a CSA victim I was failing on all counts. .. Inthinknthat is where we honestly have to look at judgement.sure we judge others and situations, but how we feel about ourselves is where it is most important.

I appreciate your comments. I do have a dry scientific at times way of thinking. I suspect it is a way of external using and distancing myself from personal pains. A coping mechanism of sorts.

No harm intended.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#460810 - 02/15/14 05:15 PM Re: Judgement [Re: On The Fringe]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: On The Fringe
I have experienced a bit of prejudice against people of faith. There is a strong anti judeo Christian current in many popular liberal teachings.

Lots of people misquote and misconstrue the Judgement verse.

Judgements that have hit me the hardest we the ones where I accepted and internalized the macho social constructs of what a man is. The strong silent type. Never hurt or abused. Always in control.

Those were the things when I judged myself, and as a CSA victim I was failing on all counts. .. Inthinknthat is where we honestly have to look at judgement.sure we judge others and situations, but how we feel about ourselves is where it is most important.

I appreciate your comments. I do have a dry scientific at times way of thinking. I suspect it is a way of external using and distancing myself from personal pains. A coping mechanism of sorts.

No harm intended.



me, too!
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#460861 - 02/16/14 01:07 PM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
timetorecover Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 12
Loc: Mi
Thanks for your responses and additional thoughts. This judgement thing has been there all my life...since the begininng of the abuse during puberty....and as grew into adulthood it became a problem. Now I am fifty something and i notice it still controls me at times...otherwise it is sitting dormant and waiting to come out again (so to speak)....So I have work to do. With group and individual therapy and books and the male survivor things I hope to attain healing of these crazy things in my mind. I even hope to do a survivors weekend later this year. So again thanks for taking the time to respond...every little bit brings healing

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#461058 - 02/18/14 11:45 PM Re: Judgement [Re: On The Fringe]
cosmos Offline


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 184
Loc: Puget Sound
Originally Posted By: On The Fringe
I have experienced a bit of prejudice against people of faith. There is a strong anti judeo Christian current in many popular liberal teachings.


Not in the US? What non-Christian countries do you refer, where did you experience this?

What “popular liberal teachings” are anti-Christian?

tia

Chris
_________________________
"it has never yet been discovered how to make man unknow his knowledge, or unthink his thoughts"

T. Paine

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#461086 - 02/19/14 01:06 PM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
Lancer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/13/12
Posts: 901
Loc: Florida
Post removed for Moderator review


Edited by ModTeam (02/19/14 01:50 PM)
Edit Reason: Mod Team edit

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#461246 - 02/21/14 11:03 PM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
Adam A Gedman Offline


Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 188
Loc: Canada
ttr, I wanted to weigh in here as perhaps I see things a little differently.

I wanted to be clear in my mind what exactly judgement was, as I have had quite visceral reactions to feeling judged by others, as it seems you have too.

I think we tend to confuse judgement and evaluations, so I went on a hunt for something to clear my own confusion on the subject.

I came across an article by Richard Bishop in the Huffington Post, who had described the two in a way that made it clear to me the difference.
He describes the difference like this.

If you look at two different light sources, say the sun and a candle. An evaluation of the two would simply state that one was much brighter than the other. This I see as an evaluation without judgement.
Where as judging the two would have us see one was too bright and the other not bright enough.
Evaluations seem to me to be analytical in nature, and judgements have a critical feel to them and are emotional in nature.

Without singling anyone out, this very thread resulted in very polarized opinions (my own evaluation), who is to say who is right, as emotion begins to cloud the issue. But if we each were able to evaluate another's post, without judgement, we can disagree, agree or have no opinion, and emotion doesn't seep into our expressions.

So I would disagree with most, in that, I don't think we need judgements, where as I do think we need to be able to evaluate. If we do so, without letting emotion take over, we can make better choices, decisions etc.

I still do not like judging, it leaves me with a false sense of superiority. Being judged leaves me feeling inferior.
I don't know about you, but I don't particularly like those feelings, I don't see that they serve my needs, so I try to avoid them, not always successfully, but I try.


Edited by Adam A Gedman (02/21/14 11:11 PM)
_________________________
Presence is the key, for all we have is now.
All we ever have is right now.

Formerly Adam A Gedman (AKA - A damAGed man)

But you can call me Kevin

Toronto Mini WoR - May 2014

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#461251 - 02/22/14 12:00 AM Re: Judgement [Re: timetorecover]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 734
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
I'm with you Adam. Judgment, in my experience, tends to be evaluative and emotional, implying less than/better than, right/wrong, good/bad. Those don't work for me.

I have come to like the word discernment. I like to simply arrive at what I feel is best for me without needing anyone else to think the way I do or to agree with me.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#461254 - 02/22/14 12:14 AM Re: Judgement [Re: don64]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
my family has been active in the 4H club for almost ten years.
my daughters are presidents, champions and judges.
they take judging very serious.
it is considered a life skill which they teach.


this is an excerpt from the "4H Judging Manual"

Let’s Judge
Judging is an activity that many 4-H clubs do. If you take the time to learn a few basic
steps judging can be an enjoyable and challenging activity.
Why do we judge in 4-H?
There is so much more to judging than simply putting animals or items in the same order
as the official judge. Judging in 4-H helps us to:
Develop Confidence
Communicate
Make Decisions
Evaluate
Learn


How do you judge?
There are some specific steps that you can follow to make your judging easier. It doesn’t
matter whether you are judging in a judging competition, a show ring or a pasture, the
steps are the same. Becoming familiar with these nine steps and working through them
in order every time you judge will help to make judging easier.
1. Picture the ideal item or animal.
Before you start judging any class, picture the ideal in your
mind. What does the perfect market steer look like? What about
the perfect loaf of bread? In your mind, or even on a sheet of
paper, list the qualities that you feel are important in a perfect
item. Rank them in order of importance.
2. Prepare to compare.
Judging is determining the advantages
an animal or item has over the next. Force
yourself to think comparatively. Think about comparative terms you
might use in your reasons. These terms are words ending in “er” and
phrases with more or less in them. Your comparative terms should be
positive.
3. View from a distance.
4. View from the front and the rear.
5. Move in for a closer examination.
6. View again from a distance.
7. Build a picture.
8. Make your decision.
9. Mark your cards.

Hints for easier judging:
• Select the easiest placings first
• Do your own judging
• Your first impression is usually correct
• Keep comparing
• Remember - reasons are important

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#461263 - 02/22/14 08:15 AM Re: Judgement [Re: Adam A Gedman]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: Adam A Gedman
ttr, I wanted to weigh in here as perhaps I see things a little differently.

I wanted to be clear in my mind what exactly judgement was, as I have had quite visceral reactions to feeling judged by others, as it seems you have too.

I think we tend to confuse judgement and evaluations, so I went on a hunt for something to clear my own confusion on the subject.

I came across an article by Richard Bishop in the Huffington Post, who had described the two in a way that made it clear to me the difference.
He describes the difference like this.

If you look at two different light sources, say the sun and a candle. An evaluation of the two would simply state that one was much brighter than the other. This I see as an evaluation without judgement.
Where as judging the two would have us see one was too bright and the other not bright enough.
Evaluations seem to me to be analytical in nature, and judgements have a critical feel to them and are emotional in nature.

Without singling anyone out, this very thread resulted in very polarized opinions (my own evaluation), who is to say who is right, as emotion begins to cloud the issue. But if we each were able to evaluate another's post, without judgement, we can disagree, agree or have no opinion, and emotion doesn't seep into our expressions.

So I would disagree with most, in that, I don't think we need judgements, where as I do think we need to be able to evaluate. If we do so, without letting emotion take over, we can make better choices, decisions etc.

I still do not like judging, it leaves me with a false sense of superiority. Being judged leaves me feeling inferior.
I don't know about you, but I don't particularly like those feelings, I don't see that they serve my needs, so I try to avoid them, not always successfully, but I try.


Sometimes we honestly judge ourselves as at fault.

Partial playing, as in partisan politics, hurts that feeling of fairness IMO. So if I suspect someone of a hidden agenda, I can't fully accept their opinion evaluation, judgements.

I was on a jury once. Ironically a CSA case. I ended up believing the man was innocent. It was a fact based judgement that cut across my initial feelings. I also discerned I was wrong at first. A hidden agenda. I hate child molesters. He was guilty until proven innocent.

Nice thread. It causes thought. I admit fully to judging the hard core unreasoning left and right extremes in opinion as rubbish. And that is ok. The opinion is rubbish, the person has all of the intrinsic value of a person.

The whole idea that if one differs in opinion from the collective, they are out of line and need correction is quite reminiscent of Hitler, Stalin, Khan, and other rulers of the stripe.

My philosophy is to embrace all people. But if you disagree with my philosophy, I can't embrace you.....

How ridiculous is that? PC in a nutshell.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#461273 - 02/22/14 11:28 AM Re: Judgement [Re: don64]
OCN Offline


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 270
Loc: Western Europe
Originally Posted By: don64
I'm with you Adam. Judgment, in my experience, tends to be evaluative and emotional, implying less than/better than, right/wrong, good/bad. Those don't work for me.

I have come to like the word discernment. I like to simply arrive at what I feel is best for me without needing anyone else to think the way I do or to agree with me.

Don

Thats what i was going to say too.. Discernment..
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Trust me, you are worth it to love yourself!

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