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#459931 - 02/01/14 12:11 PM the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
A couple weeks ago Cafeman wrote a great post regarding a "magic pill". The ensuing question was simply, "Would we take it if it meant that our abuse experiences from childhood would be removed?". My response as a survivor of CSA was that, no, I would not partake because it was what formed me and I had survived. (Sometimes I wonder if that is true… the survival thing…)

I pose the question to survivors/victims of ASA. Would you take the pill if it meant that the ASA had never happened ?

To this, I am going to say with a resounding voice… "HELL, YES!! Give me the friggin' pill !!" For whatever reason, the ASA pops up in my mind OFTEN, like multiple times a day…still…. even after all the progress I have made and after all the time that has passed. It's been 5 1/2 years since it happened, but it seems like yesterday. And I can only say that being on the verge of tears so much during the past three weeks is exhausting. And embarrassing. And causes outbursts of anger as I have never had. I don't know what is going on. But then, we all share the same emotions with this.

And suppose the victim of ASA meets someone of such quality that they begin to feel really subpar? As in, wow, if they knew how used I was, would they hold me as I need to be held? Would they say the words that should be said in kindness and care? Or if they knew, would they bolt for the door? Do I become that guy who people whisper about with having "issues"?

I know all the correct responses and hopefully these feelings will pass away soon, but to get back to the question of taking the "magic pill". Why am I so opposite in my answer when I use the ASA, rather than the CSA? Because I don't have the skills to cope emotionally. Because as an adult I comprehend fully what was done, why it was done. Because as an adult I comprehend the degradation instilled upon others for no more reason than to HURT and CONTROL. I am too old to relearn skills... I am too tired to relearn. It is zapping my energy and stealing my soul again. And just why I don't know. But those feelings have returned and I am befuddled and confused.

It wasn't my intention to be orally raped and abused. It wasn't my fault. So why the fuck do I have to carry this around AGAIN?
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#459986 - 02/02/14 08:19 AM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: ThisMan]
CafeMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/18/13
Posts: 149
Loc: Chicago
You're welcome, This Man. Gee, that pill really gets around! -Nick

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#460483 - 02/11/14 11:12 AM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: ThisMan]
BuffaloCO Offline


Registered: 07/14/12
Posts: 415
Loc: USA
Some one asked me a similar thing when I first got here, if I could go back in time and change it would I. My answer was: If I could go back in time and change something, I would stop me even being born.

Now I've done a lot of T stuff, and I'm a lot better now then I was before inside, but this question still is one I don't know for sure how to answer. Maybe if I could change anything, I'd change it so that no one went through it, ever, at all. Now I've learned to speak in pubic about it, and with that I hope to help others get help too.

So maybe that's a way to make a change. A way to change this bad thing into something good. Since we can't change the past, at least we can do something about the future.
_________________________
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” - Plato

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#460485 - 02/11/14 12:38 PM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: BuffaloCO]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6818
Loc: USA
The CIA probably has some drugs that will cause memory erasure. But it's probably not selective. It would erase good and bad. I don't think we want that.

Puffer

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#460534 - 02/11/14 10:41 PM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: ThisMan]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
Buffalo, it is cool that you have learned to publicly speak about your experiences. In doing so, I am certain you have helped others. I had a literal dream just a few nights ago that I was before an audience and speaking on the abuse. It was tough in my dream, so I am certain it must be tough in the real world. Good for you… and for those who hear you speak.

…and Puffer- some days it would be nice to temporarily erase the memories..just for a short period of time.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



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#463098 - 03/24/14 09:15 PM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: ThisMan]
oriolesguy Offline


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 106
Loc: Long Island, NY
I think all of us who have gone through CSA/ASA take a backward glance and say "If only I could change.....". I'm no exception; I've been through both. And I have no doubt that if the pill existed, I'd probably take it.

I would be different, and hopefully better than I am, although I think I've come a long way. The one thing that a pill of that kind also does, is lets the perp off the hook. And that's something I am not willing to do. If we relieve ourselves of the burden of recovery, we also would be more likely let to go of searching for justice for the perp. And I am not willing to do that.

Rape is not foremost an act of sex. It is primarily an act of violence. It took awhile for me to get that. And the violence itself needs to be dealt with.

Oriolesguy

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...1634#Post261634

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#463108 - 03/24/14 11:44 PM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: oriolesguy]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1285
****Triggers****

Originally Posted By: OriolesGuy
Rape is not foremost an act of sex. It is primarily an act of violence. It took awhile for me to get that.

I suppose I am still trying to understand that. My purpose is not to argue but to get to the truth of this one, because I've heard this SO many times before and I really don't understand what I'm missing here. But you had a journey with this so maybe I can get a clue.

My CSA's were physically gentle. It was the manipulative verbal coercion that was overpowering. But there was never any violence. It was a guy with an out-of-control sexual appetite for all us kids - especially me - and violence was just not part of that equation anywhere. There was a defect in the controlling arm of his brain, and there were no brakes applied. I was amazed at how brazen he often was, but I suspect Jerry Sandusky had the same defect. These guys thrive because people turn their heads and don't want to see. But I digress - the point is it was an act of uncontrolled sexual drive, not violence. Unless I'm seeing it wrong?

My ASA was different - that was physically forceful. But both seemed all about sex - certainly the CSA. Like my CSA, the ASA resulted from a targeted attraction from a guy who was bigger and stronger than I was and who didn't seem to understand what "no" meant. But unlike the CSA, the ASA WAS violent - from start to finish it was ALL about sex for him and that was a very obvious aspect of the abuse. Violence was only the means for him to get it. I mean - big clue here - when I finally started to cooperate, the violence stopped but the sex continued. So that's a crime of... violence??? Sure felt like a crime of sex to me. Again - I don't know what I'm missing in the definition.

Rape is like a break-in of a special inner sanctum - like someone breaking into your house, settling down on a soft couch like some unwanted slob and making you play the perfect host. And so you have that role that you have to play out until HE decides it's over, like a hand in a puppet. I don't know how to put it any stronger - it's a theft of autonomy at EVERY level, a theft of integrity, a theft of intimacy. I never really saw where violence was anything more than just a means to a greater crime. What about those who are given the date rape drug? Where is the violence there? Again - I don't want to sound like I'm arguing and maybe it comes across that way. No one here invented the "It's a crime of violence not sex" thing and obviously there must be something to it that I don't understand. But for the life of me - and I'm coming from a good store of unfortunate personal experience here - I just don't see it.

When my CSA molester got caught, my dad was one of what I call "village elders" - a group of three neighborhood fathers who met with the molester and decided what to do about it. When I asked my father why the guy molested, my dad said, "He just wasn't getting enough love at home." Not getting enough love at home. At that point I was 13 and spent the next several months trying to believe that until I finally realized that my dad - as smart as he was and as much as I loved him - didn't have a clue. He didn't even know I was the main victim - nor my sister. The he-isn't-getting-enough-love-at-home thing played to my disadvantage. When I was told to help him stay away from the girls after he was caught and scolded (yup - that was about it), that's exactly what I figured I had to give him to keep him off my sister. The truth? He was defective. They should have told me to stay away from him, not hang out with him. But that truth was submerged and I bought into some abstract that sounded like it was true but wasn't. So that's maybe why I have such a visceral issue with this rape-is-violence-not-sex thing, which sounds like it came out of the same book of re-definitions.

My CSA left me feeling confused, shamed, guilty. The ASA added empty and disoriented to the list. Being punched in the gut is primarily violence. Until it's rape. It's the sexual trespass that's the real crime.

Eirik

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#463119 - 03/25/14 08:27 AM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: ThisMan]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
I too, respectfully, differ from the survivor self-help lexicon. I do think rape is sex - for the perp, not for the victim.

Sex and violence are not antonyms. I think even the most straitlaced, vanilla, procreation-only individual will have noticed that there are elements of power and, if not dominance, then at least authority involved. It is betrayed by even the most clinical terminology we can use: "pursue," "active," "receptive," "penetrate." The change in tone of voice and the words used - the promises, sometimes warnings. Don't think I need to spell it out more graphically, we are all adults here. To a major extent, sex rotates around power. And again, that's strict strict vanilla. The existence of the BDSM community speaks for itself, as does the superabundance of rape fantasies. People are very good at eroticizing dominance. At least for themselves. That doesn't make it any less of a crime, but if it involves fucking somebody then it is about sex for the aggressor.

A recent anti-rape PSA campaign in Edmonton succeeded in reducing sexual assault rates by 10% just by pointedly clarifying what is and is not valid consent (ie "sober on drunk" is not consent, it's rape). The fact that the rape rate dropped after this proves that there is a non-trivial segment of the rapist population that actually just was after sex and thought they were doing it the right way, but then changed upon being told otherwise. If it was all about violence, consent would never matter and the rate change would have been zero.

_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#463123 - 03/25/14 10:27 AM Re: the Magic Pill question transferred here…thx, Cman [Re: SoccerStar]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1285
Originally Posted By: SoccerStar
I too, respectfully, differ from the survivor self-help lexicon. I do think rape is sex - for the perp, not for the victim. ...if it involves fucking somebody then it is about sex for the aggressor.

I agree with your argument, and really learned something from reading what you just wrote. This quote is the only thing I would differ on, but that may just come down to each individual victim's perception and interpretation of what are ultimately intensely personal crimes. The semantics I suppose are correct in the last statement - that it is about sex for the aggressor. But for me, both the CSA and ASA were about sex for me as well because that was how the aggressor defined the experience for me. It wasn't fulfilling, pleasurable, loving, wonderful, euphoric or elational sex. I think people sometimes think those are more than just adjectives - that they define the word. But they only describe healthy sex. If I could have just been there emotionally detached, unfeeling and uninvolved - the journey for me in the months and years that followed would very possibly have been different.

Interesting - the discussion comes right back to that magic pill, which is starting to look pretty good to me right now. The magic pill sounds sort of like the date rape drug - where the violation occurs but we don't have to remember being present for it, we are not haunted by the memory of our participation. Some would argue that such a pill would be like sticking our head in the sand, finding refuge in oblivion to reality. Maybe the mind cannot be injured if the brain is anesthetized or detached, and that the lack of any traces of memory equates to a lack of deeper psychic damage.

Eirik

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