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#460237 - 02/06/14 08:48 PM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3493
Loc: somewhere in Africa
TR -

you communicated in that last post very well. let me encourage you to try doing that a bit more with your family. i know that is hard - but you may well gain more than you risk.

you show a great deal of maturity , self-awareness and insight in what you have written here. it bodes well for your recovery. keep up the good work.

lee


Edited by traveler (02/06/14 08:54 PM)
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#460251 - 02/07/14 01:44 AM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
TR101 Offline


Registered: 01/10/14
Posts: 23
thanks for the responses they are helpful!
i am talking to my parents (well, my mom; my dad is a very quiet and withdrawn person) about it way more than i'd like to right now. and as the result of the most recent conversation, i'm terribly conflicted at the moment. she said "you need to forgive him, or it'll consume you. you're hurting yourself by not forgiving him".
well, this is something that i understand, have understood for a long time, and, most of the time, i respect what my mom says. i've seen plenty of people be consumed by rage.
but I've also been swayed by you guys. i wonder if she is just wanting me to forgive him so she can have the ideal family unit again, or a prettier picture to broadcast to the outside world. it infuriates me that she said that i need to forgive him to recover! i feel like by saying that she practically placed 100%of the blame for my current situation on me! i did not do this to myself! and i don't have any obligation to forgive him! i wonder if she can ever understand how it is that i feel. i wonder if she's really on my side. i really don't want to forgive him at all right now.

i'm sorry i'm so changeable and conflicted, and i'm sorry that i can't communicate every detail of what is said and happens. i'm sorry i can't communicate clearly and objectively, and i'm sorry i can't communicate clearly how i feel either! none of those things are making it any easier for you guys to see where i'm at. but if i could ask you to give me one thing right now, i think it's be an answer to this; do i need to forgive him to recover? i know that i can take my time in getting there, but if i don't will rage be what i'm doomed to all of my life?
_________________________
Ever hate how every single time that you read a post, you read the signature like it's part of that post? Yeah, me too.

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#460255 - 02/07/14 02:09 AM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
Jacob S Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 613
Loc: where the shadows lie
That's a really good question and people will give you different answers. I think ultimately you need to listen to yourself and accept yourself. You don't need to be sorry about anything. Look at how you are feeling and be ok with it. Do you feel rage? That's ok. Do you feel sad? that's ok. Any emotion you have is ok.

Someone telling you to forgive is not going to make it happen.

If you decide that forgiving him is part of your journey, that will come when it is ready. Pushing it too fast will make it not real. Many people will say that there comes a point where holding onto the rage is unhealthy. I think that if you learn to trust yourself and your emotions, you will know when that moment comes (if it comes). Trying to get to that point too fast will backfire. And you may hit points where you feel like you have forgiven him and then the pain and anger come back. That's normal and there's no reason to feel guilty or ashamed about it if it happens.

So I can't give you a definite "yes" or "no" about whether or not you need to one day forgive him. But either way now is the time to keep finding out about yourself. When/if forgiving him happens, it will be something that comes from inside you, not from someone else suggesting it.
_________________________


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#460260 - 02/07/14 03:17 AM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3432
Loc: O Kanada
i honestly believe that forgiving your abuser(s) is absolutely necessary for recovery and harmony, but only when you are ready.

it has to be sincere, genuine, desired, voluntary, natural and necessary... or it will have no worth, meaning or value.

it is something you will do for yourself, by yourself.
it does not require any other person's involvement.
the abuser(s) are not needed, and neither is their apology.

this is between you, yourself, and your spirit.
and it will take as long as you require to get there.
i believe it is one of the later steps,
so you will probably not do it today or tomorrow.
if you are not ready, do not rush or force it.

it took me 35 years.
here is my tale of healing through forgiveness.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=61546&Number=432551

and because i consider this such an important subject,
i will post these links to some serious forum discussions from this website, concerning the topic "forgiveness".

* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=455891
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=453955
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=429938
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=443130
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=448476
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=6537&Number=49902
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=426988
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=58037&Number=412674
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=58354&Number=414820
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=448691
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=428782
* http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=427498

as you can see, it is a common discussion here,
that usually triggers, and provokes controversy,
and rarely gets resolved, because we survivors are at all different stages of our recovery.
these links are only from the last year.
there are likely 10 times that many discussions about forgiving on ms.org.

hope this helps you.

i would focus on staying safe and strong and sane for now.
your health and welfare come first.

face the daily challenges, and build bridges and boats before you attempt to cross rivers and chasms.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#460265 - 02/07/14 04:09 AM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 601
Hey TR101,

Sorry I'm a bit late on your thread, but I wanted to add some of my perspective on what you're going through as well. I see that there have certainly been some developments since your first post.

First off, I'm glad to hear you're able to have some alone time this weekend and stay away from your brother. More contact with your abuser is really the last thing you need. I imagine it wasn't easy, defending yourself and making yourself clear as to what you want and don't want, what you will accept and won't accept. I'm happy and proud to hear you did that, it's no easy feat for sure.

Moving onto the deeper stuff...

I think what you've given voice to here brings us to the heart of the nature of inter-familial abuse. I just want you to know that everything you're feeling at the moment - ranging from confusion and uncertainty to anger and rage - are normal. As overwhelming and painful as they may be to feel sometimes, they're normal reactions to abnormal circumstances. What I really want to say is, it's OK if you're changeable, and you feel conflicted. Because the truth is, you've been dealing with a lot of conflicting messages, everything from the way your family has been treating you (trying to persuade you to see fireworks with your brother despite you repeatedly making clear how uncomfortable you are around him), to what you're mother has been telling you (about "forgiveness"). And you're dealing with a lot of conflicting emotions as well - from what I've read so far, you're an empathetic, compassionate human being, and that in itself is bound to conflict with the emotions your abuse and its aftermath will inevitably stir up in you.

On communicating events objectively and clearly, as well as your feelings - if I can share with you a little secret, I think for me, those are actually some of the toughest things to do in life, even after years and years of practice. I also feel that it certainly wouldn't help if you were brought up in an environment where nobody was sensitive enough to pick up on your non-verbal cues and try to understand what you're feeling - which, in my opinion, is the responsibility of the parents (in addition to saturating you with a decent vocabulary-set to be able to express yourself). I can tell you're feeling frustrated, and that there are probably some more details about your situation that you haven't mentioned yet, which may help us understand your situation better. Having said that, though, I also suspect that many guys on here "get" what you're going through, having gone through similar (or even nearly identical) experiences themselves. Your situation does resonate with many of us, and all we really want is simply what's best for you.

Onto your question on forgiveness...

This is a tough pickle indeed. I hate to tell you this, but like Jacob said before, I agree there's no clear-cut, black-and-white answer. You'll probably get as many different perspectives on it as the number of members on here. I think a good starting point would be to try and define what "forgiveness" means to you. Does it mean "letting go" of anger? What does that mean? Does it mean not feeling anger anymore? Does it mean having amicable relations with him? Can you forgive and not talk to him at the same time? Does it mean understanding? There are a million questions, and I think part of the reason why the issue of forgiveness is such a hard one for survivors is because it's not easily defined.

Another question you might ask is, "Is forgiveness the only way I can tame or even get rid of my rage?" If I can offer you a perspective on your situation from a slightly different angle, I think the rage you feel does not entirely stem from the abuse itself, but also from your current situation. I have to be frank with you - I do agree with the general consensus, that your family environment is being really destructive for you. A detail that really made me ache inside is how you mentioned not wanting to disturb your little sister with everything that's been going on between you and your brother (and your parents). It really shows how compassionate you are, looking out for her despite the overwhelming stress all this is causing you. But at the same time, it also means you're bottling up a lot of feelings, which are being suppressed further by your mother's lack of interest and sensitivity regarding your true feelings. I think this is probably one of the most painful hallmarks of inter-familial abuse - suppression of emotions for the sake of others' well-being.

Also, "You need to forgive him, or it'll consume you" is a dangerous statement. It sounds positive and helpful, but it isn't. It is stifling and repressing in that it shames you for feeling rage, and it completely ignores/invalidates your emotional reality. It also puts pressure on you to do something that you may not be ready to do, and more importantly, are not obliged to do. This is not something you should be told to do: that decision is for you to make and you only. Finally, it also fills you with this irrational fear of being consumed by rage - a fear that is already coming through in your post. Like I've mentioned before, that detail you mentioned about your sister really shows me you are a good person. I have absolute faith that the rage will not consume you. You're a good guy, really. What I fear will consume you, however, is being in an environment that forces you to be something you're not, and does not accept you for who you are - a sentient, vital human being with natural, spontaneous emotions and feelings. That is really dangerous.

I imagine you will have some bumpy roads ahead of you. As many have said on here, once the dam breaks, there really is no turning back: the only option is to keep going forward. All of what we say here are just suggestions: you're in the driver's seat, you will know what's best for you. I hope you keep us in the loop and update us on any developments.


Edited by concerned_husky (02/07/14 04:21 AM)
_________________________
Husky

My Story

Growing up isn't about losing innocence - it's about learning how to keep it in a cold and unforgiving world.

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#460270 - 02/07/14 09:09 AM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1753
TR101

Venting is healthy,it allows you to release pent up emotions and hurt. I have learned you cannot change how people think of CSA and you in the world of CSA. They have to want to change--but sadly old doctrines, controlling norms and people, and sadly their lack of knowledge and understanding hold them back from accepting the truth. Your situation is even more difficult, your parents being the parents to both you and your brother. Parents want to see the best in their children, but sadly it is not always the right view. This misdirected need to love and be loved by their children in conflicting situations only causes more harm to everyone as they deny the bad in their child.

Sadly, I have learned from many experts the emotional issues of childhood carry into adulthood and are only re-mediated when acknowledged and accepted. Only people who love themselves and see their value can admit they made mistakes, no one is perfect. You have taken great strides to face your past and acknowledge what happened to you. But sadly, your family has chosen to deny and make you the scapegoat. But do not let them take you down--vent--we are here to support you.

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#460276 - 02/07/14 03:08 PM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 287
Loc: MO
Welcome TR

I have been violated by my mother in her inabilty to acknowledge her part in my abuse. Both as an abuser and as a responsible adult.

I agree with Concerned Husky in all he said. The need to vent and experience your rage is an essential part of any loss. The trauma of childhood sexual abuse is not only a loss, but the experience of soul murder.

You will know when and how your journey will take you to recovery. You are not responsible for your parents (your "mom's") reaction. It is painful and discounting your humanity. My mother was just as bad. (When I disclosed, she asked if I enjoyed being penatrated, when I said no, she said then I was OK. That was the only time she would even hear about - you can't tell me I feel so guilty about it.)

Please value yourself and know if it is confusing, if it angers you, these are your feelings. Don't let anyone deny you your right to have your own feelings.

I know you feel you must defend you mother and your sister. This is fine and compassionate. However, you must also defend yourself.

"If I am not for me, who will be?" (Hillel - first century rabbi)

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#460320 - 02/08/14 11:49 AM Re: just need to vent [Re: TR101]
bodyguard8367 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/16/12
Posts: 1159
Loc: ""
""


Edited by bodyguard8367 (02/27/14 07:02 PM)

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