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#45994 - 02/20/03 05:16 AM Why didn't you tell?
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
When I was reading Muldoon's post today, "What possible reason" I had the idea to start a side post about why didn't you tell. Actually, I just finished another post that is a good reason why we don't tell. Because the system ignores our crys for help.

I posted a reply to Muldoon's post

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001568;p=1#000007

but I will put a few of my reasons here and hopefully we can get some other reasons why we Keep the silence.


Why I didn't tell:
Shame.
Guilt.
Fear
  • I didn't tell my parents. I didn't feel they would understand.
  • Being afraid of what the abuser could/would do if I did tell.

Knowing that the "system" does not work. Perp #3 proved that to me
Lack of support.
  • The lack of support when I did tell.
  • Reaction from the police when I did tell.
  • Reaction from my parents when I did tell.
    • Being told that I would "ruin our families good name" if I told.
    • Being told by my mother that she would be so embarrassed that she
      would never be able to set foot in HER church again.
    • Being told that if I told it would be an embarrassment to both me and
      my parents


and the list will go on ....

because the system is broken

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#45995 - 02/20/03 06:18 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
I didnít tell because:
-I didnít want to loose my friend, and knew if I told I wouldnít be allowed to play with him again
-I went along with it when I shouldnít have, and felt I would get in trouble
-I liked the attention and the feelings that sexual contact gave me

At the time it happened I didnít know enough to be ashamed of it, but I was a little guilty because I had gone along with him. Then as I got older, I became ashamed that I had been with another guy, and some overtly gross stuff we did. When I became sexually aware, suddenly I realized just how bad what he had me do was. I liked even the sicker things we did, and that made me feel flawed and perverted. I wanted to bury it, and never let anyone know how sick I really was. I blamed myself for passing the games he showed me on to two other girls, and felt I was a rapist and no better than him. Once I began hating Jeff, I sunk lower and lower, using sex as a means to punish myself, like others here have cut themselves, or tried suicide. My list grew over time because my sexual violations grew, and there was more and more to hide.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#45996 - 02/20/03 06:55 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Jess Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 107
Loc: California
Thanks, zadok1, for sharing. You are so honest. I never told throughout my life, and this happened when I was 4-5, initially. I never told, at first because I didn't understand what he was doing. He was a neighbor and all the adults in the community liked him. As an obedient child, since all the adults respected him I knew I was supposed to respect him as well. Also, we were expected NOT to speak. In those days (1955) we children were never heard, only seen. I didn't like how what he was doing to me so often (about once a week) always hurt my little parts. He sometimes undressed me. At others he left my clothes on but tried to grab at me through my open fly which he had unzipped. When he grabbed for me he always hurt me with the zipper. I didn't talk, because I didn't speak English. Ted was a nice man. My parents and the other parents liked Ted. I didn't, but I couldn't speak about it out loud. I never told. Then while growing up, I had experiences like you Zadok and for these I grew more ashamed and felt more guilty until I became so crosswired. Thank God for this place where I can get the support and comfort from the brothers here who understand what happened to me and why I grew up ashamed and alone and guilty and different. I feel that I am being honest about my life, and for the first time since then I am facing the truth about the fact of having been sexually molested. That honesty and truth are setting me free. I honestly believe that I will recover someday. I know that I am receiving healing through therapy and through the honest sharing you and I and the others are doing here. In addition, I am actively seeking out ways to assist myself in my healing through one on one therapy and in getting involved in support groups. I am healing through what I am finding in my reading and of course in the support I receive here from you and the other guys who post here. Thanks for everything, Z. Keep up the good work, Man! Sincerely, Jess.


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#45997 - 02/20/03 11:00 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
To some extent & generally probably all the reasons you guys have already mentioned.

But for me, at least in childhood & even beyond, the main reason I didn't tell was that plain and simple, it never would've occurred to me to do so!

After all I was raised from infancy in incest & extreme sexual openness/overexposure, which involved most of the significant adults I saw with any regularity especially in the formative years. It seemed normal so what was there to tell?

Also, I seem to have buried memories of events almost as quickly as they happened, especially as they accumulated; they got buried deeper & deeper.

Furthermore I buried the memories & covered the pain with OCD addictions like alcohol, drugs, food & sex.

Didn't remember couldn't tell.

Once I did remember about 18 months ago I did start telling immediately, but only my online group, my T, wife, pdoc, daughters, later a live support group, all within 6 months. Told no one else except other online groups until I joined my survivor support group about a month ago.

No perps confronted, no attempts to take on the system.

Yet...

Those of you who do give me courage. Thanks.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#45998 - 02/20/03 11:05 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
it is easy being honest here, no one knows me from adam. the real trick is being that open and honest in everyday life. i am getting there but it has been a hard fight.

i have examined every aspect of my past, and have tried to understand it. the rape started when i was five, and didn't end until i started dealing with my issues three years ago. my abuser might not have been physically molesting me any longer, but the rape visited every day. by denying and refusing to deal with it, i allowed it to play a major role in everything i did.

i was reading a survivor's story the other day where she talked about starting to use drugs and cut herself because of the pain she felt. well, i began using humiliating and extreme sex to do the same thing, inflict pain on myself. it went on year after year, pain after pain, and the whole time i refused to even consider the reasons why. it was easier to just forget it all, and keep kicking myself, humilating myself, ruining my relationships and life. no words can ever describe what i inflicted on myself, but i will say some would gag a magget.

if my struggles help someone, it makes it seem a little more worth having gone through it. i hope you all find peace with it, and happiness in your futures.

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#45999 - 02/20/03 07:29 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Why didn't I tell ?

It was something new.
I was asked to do it.
He was bigger than me.
It was sex.
Grown ups did sex.
It was a secret.

Then I began not liking it, and I did tell.

I wasn't believed.
I was punished for lying.
It got worse, more boys and a teacher joined in.
If I 'joined in' I didn't get beaten up.
I 'joined in'for about four years.
It was sex, ( did I enjoy it? )

Then it stopped when I was 16.

I gradually realised it wasn't quite right.
I felt shame, guilt, betrayal, inadequate, perverted, dirty, ashamed, lost and confused.
Most of all I was frightened of being exactly the same as them.

Was I about to tell anyone ?
The hell I was !!!

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#46000 - 02/20/03 09:32 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I did not tell because he would have killed me for sure.

I did not tell because he was the biggest, most muscular handsomest man I had ever seen,

I did not tell because it I had been asked I would have told them that I liked the first part, giving oral sex, and after all, no one likes that kind of thing, that is why no one but me ever does it.

I did not tell because I did not know that the police would done anything if I did tell.

I did not tell because my parents adored the guy as did many others--I would have been considered really sick to have talked about such things.

I did not tell because I was certain that no one in the world had had that done to them--just the dogs do that, but it is funny to watch the dogs. It was not funny for me.

I did not tell because I thought that if I did tell all the people that were important to me would think I was a pervert.

I did not tell, because even though, I still wanted to live--or better yet, I was afraid to be killed.

I get pissed having to explain this question to almost ever non-survivor I tell, including one therapist.

But no one can shut me up today!!

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#46001 - 02/20/03 10:32 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
I did not tell:

Because he was a Priest, a Catholic Priest, and it was God's man on Earth. It was "ok". After all, I was in the Church when he touched me, so God must have approved. What would Mom say? What would Dad say? What would Memere and Pepere think (Grandmother and Grandfather) Hell, I walked in on him and another boy, and they seemed to be having fun, so it must be ok.

When I was 10, I chose to tell the after school care provider's son, the next door neighbor, who was 17 or so. He told me he liked to play those games too. He wanted to show me how to have more fun than what Father had shown me. So my first experience at telling turned into more abuse.

When I was 20, I came home drunk, wearing make-up, dressed up like you would not believe. Dad confronted me. I told them I liked to hang out with gay friends because I thought I might be gay. And I told them I was turning out gay since I'd been jerked off by a priest since I was able to receive the Body of Christ. So Dad told me to get some "help" and go to confession, at the same Church where I was originally abused. He made me go or I would have to move out, hand over the car keys, and kiss the college money goodbye. So I went. I told the Priest my "sins" and what "I" had done with Father. This Priest told me to "forgive and forget" what Father had done. He told me to pray for forgiveness, and to stop drinking. He never did give me absolution. So much for telling within the "Statute of Limitations." Just last November, the Priest to whom I had "confessed my sins" was removed from ministry due to accusations from a seminarian abused about the same time my abuse was going on. ho hum.

So i did tell. It did no good.

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#46002 - 02/21/03 12:28 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
ecb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 205
In short, I did not tell at first because I didn't know I should. I didn't like what was going on, but life's full of things you don't like.

I didn't tell because he was one of the big kids and he liked spending time with me when other big kids didn't want to play with a little kid.

Eventually, when I was about 16 I began to realize the enormity of what had happened, but I still didn't tell. I was ashamed. I had wanted to play with the big kids so I wanted it right? I enjoyed it, so I was gay right? I didn't want anyone to know what I had done. So I still didn't tell. It's in the past right? It can't hurt me anymore, right?

Even once I began to realize that it had effected me so hugely I didn't tell. Because I need to be strong and tough. They cannot know that I was ever vulnerable, ever in a situation where I couldn't control anything, not even my own body.

That is why I didn't tell.


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#46003 - 02/21/03 02:38 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
I have found so much help in just the short time I have visited this site!!!! I've been in and out of therapy for over 7+ years but felt most of the time I was educating my therapist more than he helped me. But as I read your posts, things click here and there and light shines into the corners of my room - THANKS GUYS!!!

Why didn't I tell? Well, I did. My mom found my female cousin 8 years older than me in sexual play (me: 4yrs - she: 12 yrs.). Calmy said "Go outside and play out there." She didn't say what we did was wrong. My male cousin invited me to have sex on a sleepover at his house. I was 4-5 and he was 10yrs. At some point it seemed not right to me. When I got home I told my mom what had happened and she beat the heck out of me and screamed "You're a dirty, nasty boy - don't ever do that again!!" She wouldn't listen to me. My male cousin kept doing sexual things to me and me to him. I told my father and he beat me threatening to take me to the police and have me "put away" with all the bad people in jail. I tried to tell but just realized I was a really bad kid and everything was my fault! So, unprotected, I secretly did what I thought was my lot in life and had sex with everybody. Who could I tell?

Whenever I was caught, it was always with Eleanor, Sally, Joyce, Janette and awfully beat like you wouldn't believe. I was never caught with Carl, Eddie, Albert, Mike, Joe so I was never punished. Finally, when I was 12, I was caught having sex with a female family friend and my parents heaped on the guilt and shame - blamed me for being a pervert, "ruining the family name" and made me promise never to "do t- h-a-t (sex) thing again". From 12 to 20 I had sex with only guys!! What was to tell? Who could I tell? It wasn't until I was 42 yrs old and married 18 years that I realized - reading a book over breakfast in a restaurant - that I was sexually abused by multiple perps - even remembered being raped along the RR tracks when I was 8 yrs. by some red haired 14 yr. old (only the last 10 years I didn't get furious whenever I saw a red head!). I wept and wept over my eggs - in public (embarrassing but I didn't care!).
Why didn't I tell? Why did I keep the secret?

The real kicker? When I was 48 yrs old my mom shared (only once) that she was sexually molested from 8 through 13 yrs. by my uncle and his friends. Yeap, the father of my perps (cousins). When she told her parents they blamed her and held her responsible. She never told another soul until she was past 60.

I really feel upset as I recount the destruction of lives in my family. No one speaks to each other today. My dad, as far as I know, never knew of my mom's secret. I still don't fully understand why - all of a sudden - she told only me!

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#46004 - 02/21/03 04:03 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Thanks to everyone that has responded to this post and thanks to everyone that will. I find that while each story is different ..... each story has reasons that are similar to the others.

Take care everyone.

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#46005 - 02/21/03 11:49 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
The real kicker? When I was 48 yrs old my mom shared (only once) that she was sexually molested from 8 through 13 yrs. by my uncle and his friends. Yeap, the father of my perps (cousins). When she told her parents they blamed her and held her responsible. She never told another soul until she was past 60.

I really feel upset as I recount the destruction of lives in my family. No one speaks to each other today. My dad, as far as I know, never knew of my mom's secret. I still don't fully understand why - all of a sudden - she told only me!
Scotty, perhaps your mother was trying to gain your sympathy or understanding. Maybe she was trying to show her empathy with you.

Do you remember how you reacted when she told you?
How do you feel about it now? Is your mother still alive?

Scotty, I'm not suggesting you do anything. Like you, my family, which is very small, is also very scattered and we pretty much have nothing to do with one another.

Of course, my mother was my main perp, tho my father was also for the short time we were with him. There were many others--multiple perps, like you. But at the center of it all (of course) was my narcisstic mother.

She will deny about anything I ask her, but I am quite sure she was sexually abused as a child; I know she was verbally & emotionally abused. As you know, that does not excuse her or any perp.

She is the only perp that I know is even alive much less their whereabouts. We've never communicated much, and I've broken all contact since the abuse memories returned about 18 months ago. Just sent her a very short & blunt note not to contact me or my family anymore.

Take care fellow survivor

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#46006 - 02/21/03 10:12 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Wuamei - Thanks for responding! I know for you to write that letter took courage and probably was very empowering. Congratulations! I appreciated your response because I felt affirmation for me, my feelings, my experiences and my belonging to the fellowship of survivors. Another testament to not being alone in this.

How I reacted to my mom's disclosure? At first with surprise, empathy and support for her pain THEN a little later - Ah Ha!! - the missing link in the generational legacy! Then - just anger and dispair that all my cousins, my mom, most of my aunts/uncles were abused in one form or another! It was great to have the piece of the puzzle - but - the clarified picture was now clear! The horror in our family!

How I feel now? It explains so much about my mother - how she was with us kids; how distant she was emotionally; how she was unable to protect me; (because I look like my uncle) why she took physical abuse and other abuses out on me; etc. I have worked through forgiving her. No- she died about 3 years ago from complications from Alzheimers from which she suffered 7 years before dying.

By the way, my earliest full memory was of the abuse. Some fleeting thoughts, bits and pieces of very early memories make me wonder if there were earlier abuses?

Thanks again for your response, Waumei, it's been a while since I was able to share this area of my past. Thanks again!

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#46007 - 02/21/03 11:44 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Scotty, reading your posts also is helping me to feel affirmed & not so alone, so thank you too.

It's good the picture is clearing up for you, horrible tho it is. This clearer vision serves us well in recovery. Also I'm glad you were able to work thru forgiving your mother before she died. That takes a lot of courage, but I think you are stronger for it.

My first clear abuse memory was of the last time I was abused, and it wasn't even by my mother, yet I was really mad at her about it, why she didn't protect me from this gay couple that raped me. Imagine my anguished anger when I finally put together all the little pieces that kept coming back, and I realized she was the one who sold me to them!

Forgiving my mother for that, for the incest, for all the other abuse, I'm still working on. I had a major breakthrough with this in therapy several months ago, but it's a process.

I think sending her that note will help. It at least affords me some sense of power & control where she is concerned for a change. It may even provide more closure. One way or another...

It's damn hard when you see more & more of the horrible picture of your abused childhood and your dysfunctional family. It hurts. That's why I suppressed & dissociated & numbed it out for so many years.

But, at least for me at this point, it's a lot better than having all these problems and having no clue as to why or what to do about it!

Well, thanks Scotty! There is real power in sharing our stories with empathy. It's therapeutic
for ourselves, and for others as well.

TC & TTYL

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#46008 - 02/22/03 11:20 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
  • I didn't say no because my body became paralyzed. (forze) I instantly went into shock!


The night I wrote this I finally went to bed somewhere between 2 and 3 in the morning. I had to be up at 6:30 to get ready for work.

I put a C D in the C D player and tried to let the music put me to sleep. Just as I was about to fall asleep ( or maybe I was asleep) There was a loud pop and a large flash of light. It reminded me of the 4th of July except the "streamers" did not fall to the ground like a firework but rather went straight out. Maybe a better way of explaining it would be to compare it to a star exploding in space.

I immediately woke up. I tried to fall back asleep. Again, at the point that where I was about to fall asleep, wierd things started happening. This time I could not feel my arms and legs. It was almost like I was having an out-of-body experience. I was in (not a tight) ... but a loose fetal position. I couldn't feel or move any part of my body.

I thought I was just drifting off to sleep. But then I started experiencing a banging sound in my ears. The more paralyzed I the louder the banging in my ears became. I remeber thinking that maybe I was having a heart attack or a stroke. I tried to reach for the phone to call 911, but I couldn't move. Finally, I was able to "Jerk" myself awake.

I tried to fall asleep again. Again, at the point that I was drifting off to sleep the paralysis started. The greater the paralysis in my body the the louder the banging. I remember trying to again reach for the phone. Again, I finally I woke up.

For a third time I tried to fall asleep. The same thing happened. I took my pulse. I wondered if maybe I was having a reaction to one of the meds I was taking.

This time I got up. I went out to the kitchen and got a glass of milk. I went back to bed. I decided that this time I would try taking my pulse as I drifted off to sleep. I finally did fall asleep.

The next morning I woke up with a spliting headache.

I don't know if any of you know how to interpret dreams, but I know there is a lot of symbolism here. I can see some of it ..... but there are lots of things I don't understand.



Well, that was two nights ago. Today is Saturday. It looks like I am even going to get a chance to do some things I want to do. \:D

Take care brothers,

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#46009 - 02/22/03 11:53 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
HEY GUYS. The enomity of the pain I see in this particular post just shows, I think, that we are all joined at the HIP.
Early childhood for me was routine beatings from every older male from both my Fathers and Mothers side. It was good old fashioned whipping either in a basement or woodshed. It was a way of life for me. I was hyper kid (did not discover that I had ADHD until 6 months age. After these beating the women all ignored the symptoms of abuse and instead told me to go wipe the blood of and clean the bathroom afterwards. Every one called me bastard. For various reasons my Father was called a bastard also.He was off in europe and nroth africa fighting in WW2. I ran away repeatedly from the age of 8 to 14. Always dragged back and then beaten by my father for being such a dirty little bastart. I finally left home at the age of 14. Through the intervention of my father I went off to militart college and was violently abused by three guys as toy for them to do whatever they wanted. Later for 3 /12 years I was a male hustler. Wont go into that again right here.
NOW THE BIG QUESTION. Why didn't I tell.
As a child there was no one to talk to . Definetely not my family. Also I did not know about therapy, the police etc. As a matter of fact at least 3 maybe 4 cops in Ottawa were regular clients of my who introduced me to heroin. And as they say the rest was history.When I was tied up by 2 of these cops one night and while they were having fun. I received my first heroin hit. I was hooked. Whey didnt I tell the police or athority figure. I guess you can understand.
Later after cleaning up and pushing all of my feelings into a box, I could tell no one. I mean I became addicted to violence and pain and looking back I got to really enjoy all the shit.
When those cadets added sex to the violence and was was getting the attention I so craved my body reacted in a perverted way. I mean I got aroused and achieved orgasm. Who Could I Tell. I was just another pervert like all the rest of the lowlife customers I satisfied. I was getting paid for it. It WAS MY FAULT(that is what I thought)
All my life I have strived to be a good father, husband and friends to them and tow the 4 close friends I had and have. Why DID I NOT TELL. I was frozen into inactivity by my own feels of guilt , self loathing etc. I knew that anyone who knew about my past would drop me and run as far away from me as they could.
Look at all the similarities in our silence. Until Just recently I also felt that my childhood right of happiness and warmth had been stolen. Not true my brothers. The little me was imprisoned by the perps and customers and my family. And I WAS THE PRISON KEEPER. As I think I told everyone in a recent post. IT was not stolen just postponed and me the jailer with the keys.(I coulg just puke my guts out for being actively being involved). WELL THE JAIL DOOR IS EMPTY and I am gonna have a whole hell of a lot of fun with LITTLE MIKEY

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#46010 - 02/22/03 12:37 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1309
Loc: Northern Ohio
Telling. You must be joking. Your a little kid, in an era where kids don't "tell" on grown-ups.
Adults were (and still are) "All powerful". Adults MADE the rules. We dont even know what all the rules are as kids. Adults seem to make them up as they go.
We are totally dependent on adults for everything, Every thing. It doesn't even seem sensible to 'TELL". wHAT WOULD WE SAY? They used our own ignorance against us. WE BELIEVED WE HAD SOME CONTROL, We had NONE! Adults told us we were responsible for our actions And knew right from wrong. Its the adults that Teach us what right from wrong in the first place! What a Fucking set up. Its really no wonder why we blamed ourselves. Its no wonder why we didn't tell.

Blacken,
is his soul,
Blacken is his mind,
Blacken is the though that leads to the Blacken act.
Blacken mind I had, piosoned by his Deeds. Curses heaped upon my head, Blacken became his seed.
To fight, to strive, to clean the Blacken soot that clogs my soul,
my mind,
my thoughts,
my hope.....

Blacken...

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#46011 - 02/23/03 03:33 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
The Dean Offline
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Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi John! I have a problem at bedtime that is getting to be something I need to talk to my physician about. It is not a dream, but just as I would go to sleep I hear a voice saying, "well there he goes." as in he is dying. I need to keep telling myself that it has happened a dozen times and I wake up everyday so I am NOT dying---but it sures feels like I am.

Guys, here is a question. Perhaps why some of us did not tell is because we either liked, cared for, or loved the person who was harming us. Or, as some infer, they liked some of it, or did not experience it as a violent attack on us. Does any of that make sense to any of you?

I liked the guy who raped me--but his rapes were violent and I got beaten up every time. I came to have nothing but terror of him, even though I was determined to have as beautiful a physique as he had. But before he harmed me, he had been a kind of hero. I just could not believe it had happened. Had he not been so violent, threatened to kill me and strangled me every time, I may have been wiloling to do anything or let anything happen for me if he would just help me be built like he was.

Might some of us hoped that maybe if we put up with all of this we would eventually be loved by our abuser?
Maybe some of us did not tell because the man or woman who betrayed and violated us was very loving to us and told us how good we are and how much they loved us. For a kid, it is hard to understand why a person who loves us would insist on doing something that really hurt us. At the same time, they were convincing us that the did what they did because we were such terrific kids and they loved us so much.

Just a thought and a question. Some of us do have such hate and such a desire to harm our perps. Others are just glad it does not happen anymore. Why the wide difference in the ways we perceive our perps?

Bob.

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#46012 - 02/23/03 08:02 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
theDean - did I like my perp? Well I tried to tell about the abuse but since no one was going to do anything to stop the abuse, I just kinda gave in as this must be what people do. I liked my cousins because they did not hurt me. I became sexually active at 5 yrs old consensually (if possible?) with other peers. I began to like this secret sex play with both genders. Consensual sex was exciting and fun! By age 10, I had sexually play with about 25 peers. More but some didn't want to "play". By age 16, I was sexually involved consensually with between 50-60 peers with about 5+ perps older than me who forced me to do things with them. Those peers I still hold anger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My cousins I know were sexual with me, each other, a whole slew of friends/peers of both genders. I realized someone must have gotten to them too? I think I know who and they are adults (as those 5+ who got to me!!). I can get angry but forgive them because of their own abuses. The 14 yr old rapist however, I can still kill the son of a bitch if I ever, ever catch him!!!!!!!
What I get angriest at are the thoughts! On good days, I may only have 20+ sexual thoughts a day; however, on bad days (and there are several bad days) I have counted over 250+ sexual thoughts (flashbacks, people past and present). They don't bother me as much now but it gets exhausting! Sometimes, I really get fed up!!
I believe, the difference you're speaking of, Bob, is - for me - the humiliation, invasion of my body, the violence (physical, emotional)forced on me. I believe, when my emotions get all hooked up, this may change my thinking too!

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#46013 - 02/23/03 08:28 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
The Dean Offline
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MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Scottytodd.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think that I feel lots of disgust against two perps. But I still fear my main perp. The fact that he is either deceased or would be in his early 80's makes no difference. If I think about it, I feel fear.

I kind of wish I did have more anger than I do. I have some, but then I get afraid of being angry--he would have killed me if I had gotten angry. But that is all mixed up with the fact that he was so strong and well-built and at the time of my life I wanted to be so well built that I would have girls swooning over me!

Take care in your healing. We survivors have so many thoughts, feelings, worries, desires it is just amazing.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#46014 - 02/23/03 08:37 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
theDean - just a quick reply! Your mentioning how powerful, strong - overwhelming,intimidating (?) - he was, When I was in 8th grade, I was intimidated by my Social Studies teacher. She yelled, bullied and terrified me to no end. I had the opportunity to visit my Jr. High and tried to avoid her. However, she exited her classroom right into me. FEAR!!!! Wait!! She was shorter than I remembered her (because I had grown bigger than she). She was old lady with a very ancient hairdo! Where had the bully gone? As I had grown, she could not intimidate or scare me again. Could you picture yourself today and him trying to do what he did? Does this make sense for you??

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#46015 - 02/24/03 10:19 AM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
ScottyTodd:
Your de>

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#46016 - 02/24/03 01:03 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
KSinger
Would it be possible to get a coopy of your speech after you give it. If I may I would like to forward it on the governments hee in the Frozen North

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#46017 - 02/24/03 02:32 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
Chey-Wy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 241
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Ksinger,

I hope you have sucess with your speach.

While I was not sexually abused by my mother I was physically and emotionally abused by my mother. Another survivor suggested I read the Book "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward, Ph.D.

I can't find the exact quote, but what she says is that while each story of abuse is differnt you will find a little part of Your abuser in each of the abusers in the book.

I was sexually abused by the little girls accros the alley when I was 4 or 5. (I have never placed much emphais on that) I can remember the emotional and the Physical abuse happening long before that, I can't remember anything about my life before I was three years old. is this "normal? I keep wondering if there is something significant that happened when I was 3. Perhaps It was when I was three that the S A with the little girls occured.

Today, I feel that I do need to place some emphasis on the little girls across the alley. What they did was to start a cycle that continued into my adult life. I on many occasions I have asked my T's " Do I have a big red sign on my forehead that says Rape me?, abuse me, take advantage of me.

Two weeks ago I met with both my EMDR T and my regular T. I asked the question again. My EMDR T replied ..."I have found that working with victims of trauma that it is in there eyes." They have what I call inflicted, sad, fearful eyes. Perpitrators see these eyes.

LIke I said, if you would be interested in talking to me about the effect my abuse has had on my life I would be happy to share some of my experiences.

I can recall two incidents that I have posted about that come to mind how the S A has affected my life.

  • I used to have a dream (nightmare) that Santa Clause was chasing me. When he would catch me he would tell me how bad I was and that I wouldn't be getting any presents. Sometimes he would beat me because I had been so bad. Santa Clause was my mother.

    In my adult life, I was fired from a job as being a Santa Clause in the mall because I was told by the manager .... one of the customers had told her "That Santa has the saddest eyes I have ever seen. Santa is supposed to be Jolly."
  • The second is the story of what I will call the significant S. A's of my life. I now feel that both of these perps saw the " sad fearful eyes' and used these eyes to thier advantage.


If you want to contact me. Private me and I will be happy to send you contact info.

Thanks,

John

_________________________
From the Song MOUNTAINS by Lonestar.

Yeah, the good Lord gave us mountains,
So we could learn how to climb

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#46018 - 02/24/03 10:58 PM Re: Why didn't you tell?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
scottytodd, I appreciate your visualization. No, I would not be afraid in that context. I need to talk with my therapist about this. Thanks a mi9llion for your insight.

Good luck Ken. I so admire you for all you do. You write really well and with lots of heart as well as mind.

Peace brothers.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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