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#459899 - 02/01/14 06:59 AM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: dark empathy]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
i am with you on this dark empathy.
although i would say i am not angry about it,
i feel left out, because i know i will never be a "Sexually healthy Adult".
lists such as this only point out what is wrong with me.
then i have to deal with resentment.

the besit i can do is control my speech and actions,
but my thoughts are all over the map.

i doubt i will ever completely overcome and forget my childhood.
it lives on inside me.
regardless of how "recovered" i feel,
the memories still pop up at random.
invading my mind. intruding.
the only thing that changes is how i react.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#459902 - 02/01/14 07:39 AM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1966
Loc: durham, north england
I find it very hard not to be angry about this, since I'm just pissed off that everything I have done and everything I have been to has changed nothing for and my circumstances. I'm exactly where I was when I was 19, indeed I'm probably worse off now since I no longer believe it'll just randomly and magically happen to me like it did to everyone else!

I hate how easy it is for everyone else to have the sort of experience I want, especially women! and for some self obsessed scumbag to just waltz in and say how easy everything is and how it's all about the right choices just seems utterly unfair.

I'm sick of recovery, sick of getting no where and sick of being stuck with this! I'm also sick of everyone just talking in alien language that I can't understand. What the hell is a date! and what makes it different from just spending time! but I've been asking those some sodding questions for 7 years on this site and for years before then and nobody gives me an answer I can understand, so sod the hole thing!

This is exactly why I quit the site a couple of months ago, since I just feel dam frustrated and tired of the hole thing and all I basically do is repeat these stupid questions and get no answer.

This is why I quit this site a couple of months ago and am only back because everything has gone to hell, ---- if things weren't bad enough.

STill,

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#459916 - 02/01/14 10:56 AM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
it hurts me to hear you talk like that.
i can feel the pain in your words.
you seem to be in a very dark place.
you have my empathy!

that was a sad attempt and a pitiful effort to reach out to you personally.

i don't know if it helps, but i can honestly tell you that i was in your mood so often and so frequently in the past, that i thought i was always going to be that way.
i was wrong.
it ended.
i have not felt like that for so long now,
i can only remember it when i read in other survivors' posts.

please believe me...
if you want happiness,
and you are willing to work for it,
and you keep working for it,
YOU WILL EVNETUALLY BE HAPPY!

it is not the external conditions that change,
the ugliness and miseries and injustices continue.
but your perception and perspective will evolve as you grow.

i am happy. i never thought i would be.
from your position that is hard to see.
i just don't want you to give up.

you are worth the struggle!
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#459921 - 02/01/14 11:19 AM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1402
Loc: California
Dark Empathy,

You know, I have felt EXACTLY the same way. I hope you remember some of my posts here. I've never had a romantic relationship, and at my age of 42, I still don't even know how romantic relationships work as a concept. I also resent people who throw those "positive!" quotes on facebook about how we all are completely responsible for the conditions of our lives, and we create our own reality!

Really now. The poor children and women of the congo who get their arms and legs chopped off are responsible for their own reality? HORSE SHIT! People need to consider how damaging thoughts like this are to those of us who are BORN suffering and know nothing but suffering until they die. Babies die of AIDS in Africa, still. People who think that we all create our own realities tend to forget that those who suffer even exist.

I am grappling with this philosophically right now. I have personally come to terms that I *need* to believe in some system of the Universe (higher power?), but that same system has to allow for chaos that results in senseless destruction. SHIT HAPPENS. There is NOT a "reason for everything", and NO not all things happen for a reason. There is chaos in the universe, and as a result, that chaos impacts our lives.

As for our predicament; we don't know what everyone else is talking about when they're talking about things romantic and intimate. I surely would like to know what it is. I have been told by many many sources over my 42 years to find things I love. I think I've mistranslated that for a long time. I think they meant; try to find things I love ABOUT MYSELF. I haven't understood this until recently, why this is important. When I think on other people, and aspects that I admire about them, they are characteristics that I can identify, appreciate, and experience an empathy for having had the experience of growing and cultivating that characteristic. It tells me something deep and meaningful about that person by just knowing and appreciating the characteristic.

Finding something to love in myself is exactly that process. For instance, I have come to appreciate, and even love my capacity for honesty. I admire and love that characteristic in others. I have it in me. And so I've chosen to cultivate it; know it. How it impacts my life and other people around me. What that part of me does is powerful. I have come to love it.

In the process of coming to appreciate, know, and love ourselves, we walk into the space of being able to relate to others in that intimate way that you and I so desire, yet have never had.

This past couple of months have been really something for me. I'm starting to comprehend what relationships might look like in my life. But they're so fundamentally dependent on my loving and appreciating myself first. I can't share the best parts of myself with others if I can't identify and appreciate them first myself.

When people do that while interacting with other people, that is when romantic possibilities start to present themselves. You won't have to "figure it out", nor will someone have to instruct you on what it is. You'll just know.

My advice to you (and to me, and to every survivor on this board) is to identify and cultivate those character aspects in yourself that you like about yourself. I've identified a couple already; honesty. Humility. We're all perseverant, and resilient, too. Take the time to think on these character aspects you own, cultivate them, appreciate them. Know the impact that you have in the world because of them. This is where we can find value in ourselves, and self esteem, and appreciate our presence in the world. And from this we can come to love ourselves and then love others as recovered and whole.

_________________________
It's a heroes journey, and you are the hero.

Loving Kindness Meditation will dramatically improve your spirits; give it a try for just 3 days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7cpV7ERsM

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#459933 - 02/01/14 01:42 PM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
Truart Offline


Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 14
Word Dark Empathy and magellan.

People seem to believe that there is a divine justice in life. That everyone starts off equal and that you are responsible for what you do. I guess people can't fathom the concept that some people just get crushed and grinded down to dust and thrown into the ditch. For some it would mean their success is just being born into the right family, and for others, just being born into the wrong family.

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#459936 - 02/01/14 02:59 PM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
i have been giving this some thought, and i came up with this...

if my damage was physical and visible (i.e. paraplegic in a wheelchair) then reading about how to get maximum efficiency out of my legs so i can become a marathon runner, or studying which leg exercises will increase my chances for a gold medal in speed skating... well, you get the idea...

there are some things i can't do, and there are some things i will never be able to do.
reading a book about how to get through pregnancy and childbirth would only have abstract value to me.
i will never have to deal with that directly.

some things are not written for us,
and simply do not apply to survivors.
that does not mean they are not worth writing,
and it does not mean that they were published to hurt us.

undamaged people have a right to their worldview.
as many as we are, we are not the majority.
one of life's bitter truths.

it does not make everything ok, but it makes it easier to handle.

hope this made sense.


_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

Top
#459937 - 02/01/14 03:04 PM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
justplainme Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 288
That's fucked up Darkempathy, i validate your anger mate, and good freaking points.

I grieve for all of us when i say, I understand.
_________________________

"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

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#459949 - 02/01/14 06:36 PM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: victor-victim]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Originally Posted By: victor-victim
i have been giving this some thought, and i came up with this...

if my damage was physical and visible (i.e. paraplegic in a wheelchair) then reading about how to get maximum efficiency out of my legs so i can become a marathon runner, or studying which leg exercises will increase my chances for a gold medal in speed skating... well, you get the idea...

there are some things i can't do, and there are some things i will never be able to do.
reading a book about how to get through pregnancy and childbirth would only have abstract value to me.
i will never have to deal with that directly.

some things are not written for us,
and simply do not apply to survivors.
that does not mean they are not worth writing,
and it does not mean that they were published to hurt us.

undamaged people have a right to their worldview.
as many as we are, we are not the majority.
one of life's bitter truths.

it does not make everything ok, but it makes it easier to handle.

hope this made sense.




Very well said. It is to all mine to have or experience. I enjoy what I can and am thankful.

I may have precious little, but it's still precious.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#459954 - 02/01/14 07:40 PM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: justplainme]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1966
Loc: durham, north england
@MAgellan, I appreciate the thought, and that is remarkably similar to what a very great tenore told me about music. the problem is however I am just sick of dealing with myself and I am not convinced it'll do any good.

I know my reactions, I'm even comfortable with genophobi, I know my demons and how they affect me. the problem is knolidge doesn't do anything! I can sit and think happythoughts about me until the cows come home, and I've been trying that for years. The problem is that does sod all! people have always told me how nice I am, how kind, how insert complement here, indeed if I had got a relationship everytime someone told me I ought to have one I'd be rather like King solomon and casanova combined. The problem is none of this seems to mean anything, and the only answer seems to be in that alien teretory that everyone else seems to get, not a complementive answer (I'm dam sick of contemplating), but a practical one, but one I just can't understand!

This is why I'm frustrated, particularly because I know where I female everything would be so much easier, as men do all the work and take all the difficult initiation steps and the things I find impossible, while women just sit around and have all the power.

@Victor, The problem with just coming to terms with this is that whateve however much I have tried to convince myself, I know intimate relations for me arn'eT! impossible. I know if someone just helped me in the way women get help with this, I it is something I could experience. I have examined myself to the core and I know my genophobia is not insummountable, I just don't know how to deal with it alone, ---- and can't ask a therapist either.
It is just soceity and other people and this stupid male gender that get in the way.

It is in the same way that while I know and am quite happy that I will never be a great painter, this doesn't bother me, but it is bloody awful with the amount of times I've been told varients of "bugger off we can't have a blind person on stage"

I also hate being treated as though I'm some sort of alien, a either sub human and ignored as something weerd most of the time, or even if people take the time it's always as an outcast "oh he's so easy to talk to, he's so clever, he is so nice et c etc" yet I'm not the anyone who just gets invited round or phoned up or gets casually involved with anything.

I'm dam sick! of this, and sick of other people, and sick of myself and sick of recovery as well come to that, just like the 7 years I spent writing a phd thesis which some idiot of a professor just casually disregarded, it seems nothing is going anywhere!

Maybe if someone had at one time wanted to kiss me or just became I could believe this had done some good, but it hasn't, and I'm only back now because I'm so bloody furstrated with life in general, and relationships in particular, ---- those self same relationships that seem so dam easy for everyone elsethat people just take for granted!


About God, well I used to believe strongly in process theology, that is the idea that the universe is still under the process of creation, and that we've not yet reached the end of what the world will be so all of this is just rowing pains, and after all back then I always thought I could rely on my connection with god to prove that the universe wasn't completely grim.

Well God has buggered off from that connection, or maybe my own recovery has locked me from it, either way I don't think God gives a dam! As i've said before God is just a natural force like a river in the desert, if your beside it well and good,, if your dragged out into th the desert the river isn't going to come after you.

On that basis, if the idea of process theology is true and we're eventually going to create a better world, ---- well God is just the monster truck rolling over us ants on it's way to a better world that they'll never see.

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#460009 - 02/02/14 05:01 PM Re: Characteristics of Sexually healthy Adults [Re: dark empathy]
justplainme Offline


Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 288
Originally Posted By: dark empathy
@MAgellan, I appreciate the thought, and that is remarkably similar to what a very great tenore told me about music. the problem is however I am just sick of dealing with myself and I am not convinced it'll do any good.

I know my reactions, I'm even comfortable with genophobi, I know my demons and how they affect me. the problem is knolidge doesn't do anything! I can sit and think happythoughts about me until the cows come home, and I've been trying that for years. The problem is that does sod all! people have always told me how nice I am, how kind, how insert complement here, indeed if I had got a relationship everytime someone told me I ought to have one I'd be rather like King solomon and casanova combined. The problem is none of this seems to mean anything, and the only answer seems to be in that alien teretory that everyone else seems to get, not a complementive answer (I'm dam sick of contemplating), but a practical one, but one I just can't understand!

This is why I'm frustrated, particularly because I know where I female everything would be so much easier, as men do all the work and take all the difficult initiation steps and the things I find impossible, while women just sit around and have all the power.

@Victor, The problem with just coming to terms with this is that whateve however much I have tried to convince myself, I know intimate relations for me arn'eT! impossible. I know if someone just helped me in the way women get help with this, I it is something I could experience. I have examined myself to the core and I know my genophobia is not insummountable, I just don't know how to deal with it alone, ---- and can't ask a therapist either.
It is just soceity and other people and this stupid male gender that get in the way.

It is in the same way that while I know and am quite happy that I will never be a great painter, this doesn't bother me, but it is bloody awful with the amount of times I've been told varients of "bugger off we can't have a blind person on stage"

I also hate being treated as though I'm some sort of alien, a either sub human and ignored as something weerd most of the time, or even if people take the time it's always as an outcast "oh he's so easy to talk to, he's so clever, he is so nice et c etc" yet I'm not the anyone who just gets invited round or phoned up or gets casually involved with anything.

I'm dam sick! of this, and sick of other people, and sick of myself and sick of recovery as well come to that, just like the 7 years I spent writing a phd thesis which some idiot of a professor just casually disregarded, it seems nothing is going anywhere!

Maybe if someone had at one time wanted to kiss me or just became I could believe this had done some good, but it hasn't, and I'm only back now because I'm so bloody furstrated with life in general, and relationships in particular, ---- those self same relationships that seem so dam easy for everyone elsethat people just take for granted!


About God, well I used to believe strongly in process theology, that is the idea that the universe is still under the process of creation, and that we've not yet reached the end of what the world will be so all of this is just rowing pains, and after all back then I always thought I could rely on my connection with god to prove that the universe wasn't completely grim.

Well God has buggered off from that connection, or maybe my own recovery has locked me from it, either way I don't think God gives a dam! As i've said before God is just a natural force like a river in the desert, if your beside it well and good,, if your dragged out into th the desert the river isn't going to come after you.

On that basis, if the idea of process theology is true and we're eventually going to create a better world, ---- well God is just the monster truck rolling over us ants on it's way to a better world that they'll never see.


Do you plan on doing something about it? What is it that you want and why do you want it?
_________________________

"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

Top
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