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#458781 - 01/17/14 01:52 AM Re: Female on Male rape in the Bible [Re: JustScott]
Rich918 Offline


Registered: 10/28/13
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: nltsaved

Quote:
A grown man cannot figure it out, yet we are supposed to have faith as a little child.

Well i am a grown man and i have figured it out and apparently many around the world have to.

Quote:
Reason is the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought (what would a human being be without it?). To understand is to have a comprehensible grasp of knowledge. Since there is no proof that heaven or hell exist, there is no logical, rational, or analytical reason to believe them. Therefore, the only way to believe them is to purposely abandon reason.

You do not have to abandon reason to believe, you are trying to come at this being wise in your own eyes thinking you can exalt you wisdom above the most high. Your wisdom and your logic can not even come close to the wisdom of God and instead of taking scripture completely out of context with one sentence or one verse with out the context to support it I will give you the context and the scripture to back up what i am talking about.


Religion claims authority simply by saying so. (“Its in the [insert religious writ of choice here] so it must be so.”) Based upon literature of a book written in the Bronze Age, it supports only the contents of that same book. It is nowhere evident in the real world in which we actually live. Since there is no proof (you can cite none whatsoever), then of course, you must abondon reason, for there is no reasoning to be grasped.

The Bible itself has laid down the criteria for proving whether a "god" is real (in I Kings 18:19-39), and then demonstrated the punishment for those who teach about false gods. The "god" in question has to prove its existence through demonstrable actions in our world (yes, the real world in which we actually live). The reason that Ahab's people were supposed to believe in God rather than Baal is because, on command, God proved his existence. Baal did nothing. The fact that Baal did nothing proved that he did not exist. What happened to the prophets of the false god Baal? Predictably, they were slaughtered in verse 40.

The Bible that we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than a god. God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth anywhere, ever. None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence on earth anywhere, ever. And there is no more reason to believe it than there is to believe that a hobbit helped to slay a dragon. Even by the Bible's own criteria, God fails to be God.

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” - I Thessalonians 5:21

If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Buddha, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in. You, too, are atheist... toward Allah, Vishnu, Buddha, Baal, et al.

"I contend that we are both atheist. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts

Religion, with all its tenets, rules and absolutes, seeks to retain only the status quo. Religion does not seek understanding; it seeks the control of understanding. Religion does not seek conscience; it seeks dictation. Just 25 years ago, physicians believed that talking about sexual abuse could do more harm to the victim than good. Where would any of us be if this was rigidly upheld? Where would this site be?

Religion cannot change lest it loses its self-claimed "authority" on truth. Changes in knowledge and understanding make the evolution of values necessary. Spirituality seeks growth of understanding. Outdated notions and irrelevant laws do not promote the growth of understanding anything.

Religion is dependent upon hierarchal authority in its structure, dependent upon subservience and obedience, regardless of the personalities of kindly old men or aggressive dictators. Church is a political body, thats why its capitalized. No one speaks of separation of spirituality and State because spirituality does not seek (nor does it need) to create a State.

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#458788 - 01/17/14 04:20 AM Re: Female on Male rape in the Bible [Re: JustScott]
ModTeam Offline
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Dear gents,
I'd like to kindly ask and firmly demand from all of you to keep focus on original topic and theme.

Also it seems that there is a need to remind you for our policy for posting in this part. Considering recent developments we are particularly concerned for situations where couple of sides are bringing here arguments about the validity of one's religious beliefs. No matter on our differences ton must remain respectful to other's beliefs and opinions.
It is prerequisite of personal healing and recovery to be open toward other brothers survivors and their opinions.

If some of you have unresolved issues please try to discuss and resolve it in more private environment.

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#458803 - 01/17/14 10:15 AM Re: Female on Male rape in the Bible [Re: JustScott]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 838
Loc: Kc,Mo
Thank you for your efforts. I am sure it is difficult to moderate these forrums. I admit have gotten out of character and have gotten away from my integrity . I apologize for any and all offences I know I have caused. I will get back to doing what I do best and that is encourage uplift and be here for those who seek answers that pertain to the things I am knowledgeable in . Thank you
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#458893 - 01/18/14 02:42 PM Re: Female on Male rape in the Bible [Re: JustScott]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: O Kanada
the topic is Female on Male rape in the Bible

here is the original post so we can get back on topic.

Originally Posted By: JustScott
Quote:
Genesis 19:30-38

Lot and His Daughters

30 Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. So he lived in a cave with his two daughters. 31 And the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth. 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father.” 33 So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

34 The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, “Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father.” 35 So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. 36 Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father. 37 The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab.[a] He is the father of the Moabites to this day. 38 The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben-ammi.[b] He is the father of the Ammonites to this day.


Emphasis mine.

I've known this story for a LONG time and yet, not until recently did it occur to me that this constituted rape. They got him drunk, and while he was passed out used him in order to become pregnant. Aside from their getting pregnant, he never knew it had occurred.

Thoughts?


what i find fascinating is how the bible does not coverup the sins and crimes and mistakes of it's most holy and righteous people. they are imperfect and flawed. they are human.



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#458922 - 01/18/14 11:28 PM Re: Female on Male rape in the Bible [Re: JustScott]
Vedder32 Offline


Registered: 03/09/13
Posts: 21
Loc: Kentucky,U..S.A
I remember coming across this passage several times in my life and thinking...wow their crazy. Than several years ago I attended a sermon with my aunt just for the simple reason I could spend time with my aunt.

My relationship with the preacher and the congregation can be best described as non existent. I can remember when my aunt started attending this "cult" that my relationship with her started to change and so did my life.No longer did I receive any emotional support from her but rather a scolding and put downs on how to be a "Man."

Not to mention the man who abused me attended his congregation one day. So I decided to intervene and make sure the perp didn't touch another child. The preacher just used this opportunity to magnify himself as a "man".

The odd thing is, the sermon centered around this passage and it dawned on me...this was well orchestrated by my aunt and her preacher to pin the abuse on me. For the simple fact, I've never testified of the lord jesus christ and how great god is ever since my sexual abuse but the perp did that day in church.

I find that people who follow one way are destined to live one way and it's a toxic cycle of abuse. The sad thing is, I am sure that god has some good followers but I haven't met one in my whole life time.

P.S. Your absolutely correct on the bible not covering up the sins and mistakes of it's most holy and righteous people.

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#459923 - 02/01/14 11:25 AM Re: Female on Male rape in the Bible [Re: Vedder32]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: Vedder32
P.S. Your absolutely correct on the bible not covering up the sins and mistakes of it's most holy and righteous people.


amen.

even jesus had his moments.

anger, fear, pain.

and it is all recorded.
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