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#459633 - 01/28/14 09:06 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
thank god for that wink

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.
For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common?
Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6


And be not conformed to this world:
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12

I have given them your word,
and the world has hated them because they are not of the world,
just as I am not of the world.
I do not ask that you take them out of the world,
but that you keep them from the evil one.

John 17

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own;
but because ye are not of the world,
but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hateth you.

John 15

For though we walk in the flesh,
we are not waging war according to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 10
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#459712 - 01/29/14 04:14 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
Here I am.

I am one of you.

I haven't read everything said here (yet) but I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about.

Yes I'm one two.

Following is my statement about God's activity in my life. It is a quotation from the Psalm of David, no. 34, New Living Translation

The Lord is close to the brokenhearted;
he rescues those whose spirits are crushed.


Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (01/29/14 04:37 PM)

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#459753 - 01/30/14 03:42 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
just finished the ACTS of the Apostles (again)

what an adventure!

very inspiring.

confidence in the face of conflict.
perseverance in the face of persecution.
determination in the face of deterrence.
courage in the face of corruption.
resolve in the face of resistance.
obstinance in the face of obstruction.
strength in the face of stress.
faith in the face of failure.
hope in the face of horror.

1 Corinthians 4
This, then, is how you ought to regard us:
as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.
Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful.
I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court;
indeed, I do not even judge myself.
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent.
It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes.
He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart.
At that time each will receive their praise from God.

When we are cursed, we bless;
when we are persecuted, we endure it;
when we are slandered, we answer kindly.
We have become the scum of the earth,
the garbage of the world—right up to this moment.
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#459833 - 01/31/14 12:05 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
i have just started to really pay close attention to Proverbs and Psalms.

divinely inspired common sense... wisdom.

for gaining wisdom and instruction;
for understanding words of insight;
for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
doing what is right and just and fair;
for giving prudence to those who are simple,
knowledge and discretion to the young—
let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance—
for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Out in the open Wisdom calls aloud,
she raises her voice in the public square;
on top of the wall she cries out,
at the city gate she makes her speech:
“How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?”
PROVERBS 1

-------------------
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works,
there is none that doeth good.
PSALM 14

-------------------
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
PROVERBS 26


i was such a fool, for so long.
i can barely remember who i was, or why i was.
all i can remember is a cloud of confused thought and pain.

studying the bible, praying to Jehovah the creator in the name of Jesus Christ, and true Christian fellowship, has dramatically and drastically improved my life and lifestyle.

the best part is the quality of my emotional state.
we are talking orders of magnitude, not percentages.
we are talking total transformation.

this is what i always dreamed recovery would feel like.

thank you god!
i praise your holy name.
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#459856 - 01/31/14 06:04 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: nltsaved]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: nltsaved

Psalms 1 1-6
1Blessed is the one

who does not walk in step with the wicked

or stand in the way that sinners take

or sit in the company of mockers


"Do not keep company with a hot-tempered man
Or get involved with one disposed to rage,
So that you never learn his ways
And ensnare yourself
."
Proverbs 22:24-25


I sure wish I had taken this advice a looooooong time ago.
Now it is too late.
I am a hot-tempered man, disposed to rage!
I learned those ways, and I have ensnared myself.

all i can do now is work harder to get better.
Matt 5:48: "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.”
2 Cor. 7:1: “Therefore, having these promises, beloved,
let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
1 Thessalonians 3:10: “Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face,
and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?”
1 Peter 5:10: “But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus,
after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect,
establish, strengthen, settle you.”
Philippians 1:6: “And I am convinced and sure of this very thing,
that He who began a good work in you will continue until the day of Jesus Christ,
developing and perfecting and bringing it to full completion in you.”
2 Cor. 13:11: “Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind,
live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.”


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#459894 - 02/01/14 06:36 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
the biggest problem i have always had with god is that i am not god.

then i realized...
what kind of fool would engage in a power struggle with the creator of the universe?

I said in my heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”

In the pride of my heart
I said, “I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.”
But I am a mere mortal and not a god,
though I think I am as wise as a god.

Will I then say, “I am a god,”
in the presence of those who kill me?
I will be but a mortal, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay me.

this i do confess and repent.

I admit I am powerless—that my life is unmanageable.
Things happened, happen, and will continue to happen that are beyond my control.
I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity.
I made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God as I understood Him.
I made a searching and fearless moral inventory of myself.
I came to realize that I have no right to criticize anyone,
least of all the creator of the universe.
I admit to God, to myself, and to other human beings the exact nature of my wrongs.
I continue to confess and repent.
I pray to God to forgive and remove all these defects of character.
I humbly ask Him to forgive and remove my shortcomings, every day.
I pray for the power to forgive myself and others for these shortcomings and defects in all of us.
I acknowledge all persons I have harmed,
and I am willing to make amends to them all.
I make direct amends to such people wherever possible.
I continue to take personal inventory,
and when I am wrong, I promptly admit it.
I seek through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious contact with God as I understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for me and the power to carry that out.
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, I have tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all my affairs.

I thank god that I was never trained or programmed or pressured religiously as a child.
I thank god that I have come to my own conclusions by my own free will.
My belief system is not based on indoctrination, ritual, intimidation, manipulation, geography, family, convenience, conformity, etc, as it is with most labels.
I rely on research, prayer, and fellowship.
I adopt only methods and techniques that work for me.
I am free to abandon or correct those methods that no longer work or, having already worked, are no longer needed.
My curiousity has led me to where I currently am.
I like where I am.
Grateful to God.

----------------------
SPIRITUAL

1) of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal

2) a: of or relating to sacred matters
b: ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal

3) concerned with religious values

4) related or joined in spirit

5) a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b: of, relating to, or involving spiritualism


RELIGIOUS

1) relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity

2) of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances

3) a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful
b: fervent, zealous

----------------------------

i never made much of a distinction between the two myself,
but at least now i have some idea.

i looked into the etymology of the root words.

-----------------------
Religious: "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-French religiun, Old French religion "piety, devotion; religious community," and directly from Latin religionem (nominative religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods; conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation; fear of the gods; divine service, religious observance; a religion, a faith, a mode of worship, cult; sanctity, holiness".

Spiritual: "of or concerning the spirit" (especially in religious aspects), from Old French spirituel, esperituel or directly from a Medieval Latin ecclesiastical use of Latin spiritualis "of or pertaining to breath, breathing, wind, or air; pertaining to spirit," from spiritus "of breathing, of the spirit". Meaning "of or concerning the church".

----------------------------------

i would say that i fall under both these labels from time to time,
depending on who's making the definition.
but i am a severe skeptic, a bible believer,
a follower, a doubter, a repentant rebel,
a sinner seeking salvation, a hypocrite,
doing my best to be better.

prayer, study, and fellowship.
loving, learning, and sharing.


i love the bible.
i read it every day.
i love to pray.
i do it every day.
i worship the creator.
i praise the creator.
i thank the creator.
i fear the creator.
i love the creator.
i love the creation.
i love the creatures.
i love jesus.
i love myself.
i love mankind.
i love life.
i love.

i will let others decide what to label me.

i traded in sex n drugs and punkrock for
bible n prayer n fellowship.
so far it has been the best thing that has happened to me in my 52 years of life.

way better people.
way better party.

i believe the universe was designed and created by some intelligent being for a purpose.
there is simply not enough time left in my life to explain how i arrived at that conclusion.
it took me a lifetime to get to this point.
i cannot prove it and do not intend to defend that position.
this is an opinion that i currently hold, based on my own personal knowledge and experience.
the only god i am interested in worshipping is the god that created and designed everything.
the source.
the cause.
the purpose and will behind, beneath and beyond whatever exists.
when i used the word 'god' at the beginning of this thread, that is what i meant.
the point of posting was to share a personal breakthrough in my own ongoing quest for meaning and purpose in my life.

it may be that all kinds of invisible/undiscovered/supernatural/extraterrestrial/interdimensional beings exist outside or within our time/space continuum.
whether such sentient entities are really real does not require my consent.
i would consider any and all of these spirits to be creations and creatures, not the creator.
it really does not matter what god i believe in.
what matters is which god i choose to give my submission, devotion and worship.

the creator i pray to is still beyond my definition or comprehension.
the creator might even be beyond my prayers,
but i will continue to be grateful to god.
i enjoy expressing that joy.
it is genuine and sincere.

after decades of denial, defense, doubt and due diligence, soul searching struggles, skeptical subjective scientific studies, subconscious spiritual self seeking, extreme emotional esoteric experiences and experiments, rebellion, resistance, rituals, rigorous reading and research, and careful contemplative consideration, i finally became an expert on my own ego.

i never wanted to believe in god or anything supernatural or spiritual.
life after death is about as interesting to me as life before birth.
lifestyle and quality of life on earth is what motivates me.
my deepest wish has always been that none of it is true,
but i don't make the rules.
as i said earlier... i am not god.

despite my desires and efforts,
against my own judgement and wishes,
counter to my own intuition and instinct,
i believe in a creator who cares.

anything less does not interest me.
anything less would not be interested in me.
anything less does not deserve my adoration or attention.

a mechanical universe without personality, purpose, intelligence or design does not interest me infinitely.
a god i cannot contact or communicate with does not interest me in any way.


the point of my post was this.

i have tried god.
denied god.
decried god.
destroyed god.
despised god.
demonized god.
criticized god.
cursed god.
hated god.
debated god.
negated god.
voided god.
avoided god.
ignored god.
abhorred god.
judged god.
sentenced god.
begged god.
blasphemed god.
blamed god.
defamed god.

i was unable to find emotional/philosophical/psychological/psychic/psychedelic/physical/pharmaceutical/medical/mental solutions to my spiritual problems.
if the spirit is a product of the imagination,
then i needed imaginative imaginary solutions to my imagined problems.
it was tragic.
my logic was no match for magic.
i was unable to pretend or reason or imagine my imagination into nonexistence.

if the holy spirit is imaginary, then i have the best imaginary friend i have ever had.
if this is trading one addiction for another,
then i have definitely traded up.

the bible has helped me understand my situation better than any other holy book or ancient text or self help system or therapy session i have ever encountered, employed, or embraced.

i read the bible every day,
and i apply the techniques,
and i get the results, as advertised.
to my skeptic surprise.

i will let you know when it lets me down.

i don't concern myself with the ideas behind Christianity.
i am not interested in the traditions of man.
i am a child of god.
i seek the light.
i read the bible.
i praise jhvh the creator.
i love jesus as intercessor.
i seek fellowship in the holy spirit and the body of christ.
not only has my life improved,
my personality has completely transformed.

i resisted Christianity my entire life because i thought it was illogical nonsense.
i would have much rathered a belief system that fit my preferred lifestyle and worldview,
but after a lifetime of errors, i will settle for something that works.
And Christianity works...
but if and only when i:
- read the bible.
- surrender to the will of JHVH.
- obey the commandments.
- follow JHSVH.
- confess, repent, and forgive.
- praise JHVH the creator in the name of his son JHSVH the Messiah.
- love all his children as siblings.

that is what i consider Christianity.
that is what i am trying to achieve.
with the help of prayer, study and fellowship, it is being achieved, much easier than i ever thought possible.

i was betrayed by "christians".
it made me hate the church, god, man, and myself.
but those undercover pedophiles have infiltrated every organization on the planet, especially where there are vulnerable children and gullible parents.
after decades of searching, i did not find one single secular or spiritual social group that did not contain the same hidden hazard, especially when children were involved.

wherever there are people engaged in social activity,
there will always be abuse and ignorance and dishonesty and corruption.
rejecting god did not make the evil go away in my life.
avoiding church did not protect me from predators.

if the diaper is dirty, i don't dispose of my baby,
i wash my child and flush the crap.
the diaper is not the baby.
the church is not god.
empty rituals are a waste of time.
form without content.
without sincere prayer and bible study,
the church is nothing more than a social club.

the bible tells me to:
1) trust in the father.
2) believe in the son.
3) receive the holy spirit.
4) forgive my brother.

although i am commanded "thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself",
it does not tell me anywhere to trust my fellow human.
(if i have overlooked that scripture, someone please correct me.)

instead, i get the opposite.
the bible tells me that i am like a sheep among wolves, some of which are wearing sheepskins, and i should be as harmless as a dove, and as wise as a serpent.

How much of my faith is truly my own?
all of it.
100% self taught, ego filtered, life tested and experience based.
How much is influenced, expected and demanded by all those around my who are immersed in it?
none of it. i am currently seeking and building a fellowship support network.
If i was born somewhere else where my family and neighbors and all around me were followers of a different faith, would i become Christian?
i cannot answer that one directly, but i can tell you that i was raised without religion in a multicultural society.
any contact i had with christians and churches was completely negative, my rapist was a "christian", my fondler was a "christian", my friends were being abused by "christians".
jesus did not "save" me from sexual abuse.
i rejected religion, for pretty much the reasons you have outlined, holy wars etc, and began a lifelong journey to find inner peace and joy without god.
naturally, i started with hedonism and nihilism.
any time god crossed my mind, my immediate reaction was rebellion and rage.
if god existed, he deserved my disdain.
after this experiment ended in disaster, i felt compelled to seek some spiritual answers.
i experimented with every spiritual system,
giving each one a serious and skeptic study.
i found solace in atheism, agnosticism, secular humanism, and many other isms. my favourite was hedonism.

i got involved in everything from the occult to eckankar.
really wanted to be a Buddhist, moved to the jungles of Thailand for some time.
chanted to hindu gods, dabbled in dianetics,
got really serious about my native aboriginal roots,
worshipped the sun, the earth, and the cosmos.
i even gave satan a shot.
when all else failed, i gave the bible a try.
i thought, why not?
i had already studied all the other ancient texts and holy books.
i might as well read the whole thing from cover to cover.
i suspected/expected i would find all the flaws in it and be able to ridicule and reject christianity on a more informed basis.
the exact opposite happened.

i found a new foundation.
an undercurrent of love and joy.

my current belief system has come as a complete surprise to me, but believe me, it is based on unexplainable events that actually occurred. if i did not have other eye-witnesses to corroborate these events, i would doubt my senses.
i still don't want to believe what i know to be true.
so, in my opinion, if you had asked me ten years ago, whether i would believe in jesus the messiah, i would have laughed at you.
the answer would not have been "highly unlikely" but rather a sincere and emphatic "impossible".
my knowledge of the bible at that time, was based on a few aborted attempts to get past genesis chapter 3 before losing interest. i skipped over all the begats in matthew, scoffed at the virgin birth, but totally liked what jesus had to say.
remembered the ones that i liked and agreed with, and ignored the parts i didn't. did not buy into the messiah myth and the miracles. i paid no attention to the resurrection.
didn't even notice the salvation.
all the crucifixion meant to me was this...
even if you are innocent, you can still be tortured and put to death if you don't keep your mouth shut.
how did i ever become a follower of jesus and a believer in christ?
i will call it a miracle.

for me...
faith is not a suspension of reason.
faith is not a substitute for logic.
faith fills in the gaps between the facts.
spirits and gods do not play by our rules.

jesus christ did not condone or endorse violence.
he taught the opposite.
in fact, one of the reasons i rejected church was because of what little i had read in matthew.
jesus constantly criticizes and even condemns traditional temple teachings, holy hypocrites, corrupt churches and ritual religion.
the first part of the book of revelation is a scathing attack on churches.
later in that same book, it refers to "synagogues of Satan".
most of the new testament is advice, accusation and admonition addressed to christian churches and congregations.
both john the baptist and jesus the messiah called the pious religious leaders a "generation of vipers".
how about this... from the book of job:
Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

in my opinion, a church is wherever 2 or more believers are gathered in the worship of the creator.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Jeremiah 23:29 - Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Ephesians 6:17 - And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

the word of god can be a dangerous weapon.
a double-edged sword that cuts both ways.
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#459895 - 02/01/14 06:40 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
There are six things that Jehovah hates;

Yes, seven things that he detests:

Haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart plotting wicked schemes,
and feet that run quickly to evil,
A false witness who lies with every breath,
And anyone sowing contentions among brothers.


PROVERBS VI
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#459917 - 02/01/14 10:59 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
I like that one

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#459922 - 02/01/14 11:20 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
the sad thing is...

my eyes are haughty,
my tongue lies,
my hands have shed innocent blood,
my heart plots wicked schemes,
my feet run quickly to evil,
i have been a false witness,
and i have sown the seeds of discontent among my brothers.

just admitting that was difficult, almost impossible, but by accepting the guilt, i got rid of my shame.
of course, i would rather be perfect,
and i would settle for excellent,
but i am willing to work for it, and i have.

i have such pride issues, that i started getting proud of my humility.
this Christian commitment is harder than i thought,
but the results are worth it.
i have improved... massively, immensely, immeasurably.

the improvements have been dramatic, and permanent so far.

the work continues.

bible study,
prayer to Jehovah in the name of Jesus Christ.
fellowship with real Christians.
obedience, submission, worship, praise, gratitude.

glory to god!
life is beautiful.
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#460097 - 02/04/14 04:05 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3333
Loc: O Kanada
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else,
for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself,
because you who pass judgment do the same things.
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.
So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things,
do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience,
not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
...

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law,
and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight,
but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness,
and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.


ROMANS CHAPTER 2

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