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#458841 - 01/17/14 08:24 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3351
Loc: O Kanada
psalm 44



We have heard it with our ears, O God;
our ancestors have told us
what you did in their days,
in days long ago.
With your hand you drove out the nations
and planted our ancestors;
you crushed the peoples
and made our ancestors flourish.
It was not by their sword that they won the land,
nor did their arm bring them victory;
it was your right hand, your arm,
and the light of your face, for you loved them.
You are my King and my God,
who decrees victories for Jacob.
Through you we push back our enemies;
through your name we trample our foes.
I put no trust in my bow,
my sword does not bring me victory;
but you give us victory over our enemies,
you put our adversaries to shame.
In God we make our boast all day long,
and we will praise your name forever.
But now you have rejected and humbled us;
you no longer go out with our armies.
You made us retreat before the enemy,
and our adversaries have plundered us.
You gave us up to be devoured like sheep
and have scattered us among the nations.
You sold your people for a pittance,
gaining nothing from their sale.
You have made us a reproach to our neighbors,
the scorn and derision of those around us.
You have made us a byword among the nations;
the peoples shake their heads at us.
I live in disgrace all day long,
and my face is covered with shame
at the taunts of those who reproach and revile me,
because of the enemy, who is bent on revenge.
All this came upon us,
though we had not forgotten you;
we had not been false to your covenant.
Our hearts had not turned back;
our feet had not strayed from your path.
But you crushed us and made us a haunt for jackals;
you covered us over with deep darkness.
If we had forgotten the name of our God
or spread out our hands to a foreign god,
would not God have discovered it,
since he knows the secrets of the heart?
Yet for your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
Awake, Lord! Why do you sleep?
Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever.
Why do you hide your face
and forget our misery and oppression?
We are brought down to the dust;
our bodies cling to the ground.
Rise up and help us;
rescue us because of your unfailing love.
_________________________
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#458976 - 01/20/14 09:45 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2578
Ok, I'll be honest, the passages are awesome, but the volume of text is quite large, so I'm a tad overwhelmed and also unsure. Is there some specific part or section you want to talk about?

I'm going to go back and read your initial post to refresh my brain on your thoughts and feelings on all this.

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#459022 - 01/20/14 03:36 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3351
Loc: O Kanada
i have been studying romans chapter 8.
it led me to psalm 44.
these are comforting to me when i am feeling persecuted or paranoid.

i only posted them to share.

any comments are welcome.
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#459059 - 01/21/14 12:20 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
This is what I was talking about in the other thread about Romans 8
it is not all about Romans 8 but i brought it up while writing this for this thread


What are your thoughts on the sovereignty of God , how far do you take it. There are certain aspects of Calvinism I really enjoy. All salvation is of grace. I am leaning towards God does what he wants and because we being human want to know and understand and have reason revealed to us that we do want to believe in a God who predestines some to be saved and others to be raised up only to fall . God said he hardens Pharaohs heart in order that his glory would be displayed .There are many places in scripture where God raises up people for specific purposes. And than you have the whole Judas thing I mean some one had to do it . I am finding in my study that God does things that we will never be able to comprehend. Things that we might see as unfair or dare I say unjust and yet there are deeper more profound meanings behind his actions. Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

How far do we take the sovereignty of God ? I am almost to the point of thinking God is really sovereign in ALL things whether we understand him or his actions or not or whether we can reason our way into rejecting it or accepting.In the end I am just trusting God in all things for all things and committing to God being sovereign in all things because I think in my own opinion that in doing so it will put him in the highest place in my life that I can place him. Sovereign in all things trusting him in all things and whether i agree with it or not. Just knowing He is everything he says he is and really i have no reason not to believe this because for this verse 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. I have seen in my life he has justified me and i feel predestined and he has glorified me in many ways and put me in positions to glorify him through me and has set me in places to do great things and areas that I could never have achieved without God. I have no high school diploma and work at a job that requires one and make more money than most people with college degrees I have held 3 management positions in my life with not high school diploma he has allowed me to go on the oprah show and have the local news paper do a story on me and God uses me to do a prison ministry to bring the gospel to prisoners some even being child molesters . I say ONLY the grace and glory of God could any of this have been possible. I feel a sense of predestination not in the sense of being better than anyone but I do feel that God does choose those whom he chooses and chooses to do other things for people that i will never understand. Does it mean some our destine for hell ? well if it means to further bring him glory than i would say yes . Hell is not a place of fire and burning it is simply life without God life knowing you could of had a relationship with God and live in his presence . Instead rejecting God and having to live eternity separated from his presence. You have to read scripture in light of scripture and as a totality . When doing this you are able to grasp God i believe more correctly . Scripture in light of scripture . Yes there is a lot God does that would make you scratch your head and some that has the appearance of contradiction but examined in light of all scripture it is not contradicted at all and in the totality of scripture it reveals God love his sovereignty and his compassion time and time again.

There is so much glory and majesty about god that truly we do not understand, although we see great evils and we see here on earth how we would handle some things and have our own ideas of what justice and fairness is. Yet God see's things past present future and knows exactly what the causes and effects will be not only that he knows the amount of people it will effect the most. Add in everything is for his ultimate glory.
example
I mean If you had to determined who lives and who dies and had to make a decision in a scenario of your son or someone you knew was in a house that was about to explode and you could only get one person out of 6 which one would you pick? Most would pick their loved one, But God who is omnipotent knows that one of those people would go on to find a cure for cancer God would know who would go on to bring him the most glory where we would most likely go off our feelings and emotions.


Edited by nltsaved (01/21/14 12:22 AM)
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#459065 - 01/21/14 02:57 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3351
Loc: O Kanada
amen and thanks for your thoughts.

glory to god!
hallowed be the holy name of Jehovah and his son Jesus the messiah.


as a responsible parent myself, having successfully raised three great children (so far smile ), i have come to understand and love "god the father".
as a rebellious child, i also understand "the fall".
it took a lifetime to get to this understanding, but by the grace of god, it all makes sense now.
i have finally learned how to accept his will, but it still takes daily effort.
as i said in another thread...

the biggest problem i had with god was that i wasn't god.

of course we can't comprehend the creator of the universe.

jhvh is in keter, we are in malkhut.
god is in heaven, we are on earth.
god is the holy spirit, we are only a reflection of his image.
blood and dust and dna with a whisper of divine breath.
god is the creator, we are the creature, trapped in the creation.

god is beyond my comprehension or criticism.
he does not need my approval or agreement.
he wants my confession, not my permission.

jesus and the word and the holy spirit have lifted me out of a state of fear and hate. the very definition of hell on earth.
my memories, my history, my previous life, my sexual abuse, my self abuse, everything that once was, has died.
it seems like trivia now.
my spirit has been washed in the precious blood.

i thought i would never be free.

this is something so incredible,
i hardly believe it myself.
but i am the living proof.


the experiment continues.
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Victor|Victim

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#459070 - 01/21/14 06:37 AM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3351
Loc: O Kanada
this was an eye opener for me.

book of job

38:
1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
2 “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.
4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors
when it burst out from the womb,
9 when I made clouds its garment
and thick darkness its swaddling band,
10 and prescribed limits for it
and set bars and doors,
11 and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther,
and here shall your proud waves be stayed’?

12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
and caused the dawn to know its place,
13 that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth,
and the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It is changed like clay under the seal,
and its features stand out like a garment.
15 From the wicked their light is withheld,
and their uplifted arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered into the springs of the sea,
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you,
or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?
18 Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth?
Declare, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light,
and where is the place of darkness,
20 that you may take it to its territory
and that you may discern the paths to its home?
21 You know, for you were born then,
and the number of your days is great!

22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,
or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
for the day of battle and war?
24 What is the way to the place where the light is distributed,
or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth?

25 “Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain
and a way for the thunderbolt,
26 to bring rain on a land where no man is,
on the desert in which there is no man,
27 to satisfy the waste and desolate land,
and to make the ground sprout with grass?

28 “Has the rain a father,
or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb did the ice come forth,
and who has given birth to the frost of heaven?
30 The waters become hard like stone,
and the face of the deep is frozen.

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades
or loose the cords of Orion?
32 Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season,
or can you guide the Bear with its children?
33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you establish their rule on the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
that a flood of waters may cover you?
35 Can you send forth lightnings, that they may go
and say to you, ‘Here we are’?
36 Who has put wisdom in the inward parts or given understanding to the mind?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can tilt the waterskins of the heavens,
38 when the dust runs into a mass
and the clods stick fast together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in their thicket?
41 Who provides for the raven its prey,
when its young ones cry to God for help,
and wander about for lack of food?

39:1 “Do you know when the mountain goats give birth?
Do you observe the calving of the does?
2 Can you number the months that they fulfill,
and do you know the time when they give birth,
3 when they crouch, bring forth their offspring,
and are delivered of their young?
4 Their young ones become strong; they grow up in the open;
they go out and do not return to them.

5 “Who has let the wild donkey go free?
Who has loosed the bonds of the swift donkey,
6 to whom I have given the arid plain for his home
and the salt land for his dwelling place?
7 He scorns the tumult of the city;
he hears not the shouts of the driver.
8 He ranges the mountains as his pasture,
and he searches after every green thing.

9 “Is the wild ox willing to serve you?
Will he spend the night at your manger?
10 Can you bind him in the furrow with ropes,
or will he harrow the valleys after you?
11 Will you depend on him because his strength is great,
and will you leave to him your labor?
12 Do you have faith in him that he will return your grain
and gather it to your threshing floor?

13 “The wings of the ostrich wave proudly,
but are they the pinions and plumage of love?
14 For she leaves her eggs to the earth
and lets them be warmed on the ground,
15 forgetting that a foot may crush them
and that the wild beast may trample them.
16 She deals cruelly with her young, as if they were not hers;
though her labor be in vain, yet she has no fear,
17 because God has made her forget wisdom
and given her no share in understanding.
18 When she rouses herself to flee,
she laughs at the horse and his rider.

19 “Do you give the horse his might?
Do you clothe his neck with a mane?
20 Do you make him leap like the locust?
His majestic snorting is terrifying.
21 He paws in the valley and exults in his strength;
he goes out to meet the weapons.
22 He laughs at fear and is not dismayed;
he does not turn back from the sword.
23 Upon him rattle the quiver,
the flashing spear, and the javelin.
24 With fierceness and rage he swallows the ground;
he cannot stand still at the sound of the trumpet.
25 When the trumpet sounds, he says ‘Aha!’
He smells the battle from afar,
the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.

26 “Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars
and spreads his wings toward the south?
27 Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up
and makes his nest on high?
28 On the rock he dwells and makes his home,
on the rocky crag and stronghold.
29 From there he spies out the prey;
his eyes behold it from far away.
30 His young ones suck up blood,
and where the slain are, there is he.”

40:1 And the Lord said to Job:
2 “Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
He who argues with God, let him answer it.”
3 Then Job answered the Lord and said:
4 “Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you?
I lay my hand on my mouth.
5 I have spoken once, and I will not answer;
twice, but I will proceed no further.”


there is more, but this pretty much sums up how god put me in my place.
this thing happened to me before i ever read the book of job.
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Victor|Victim

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#459096 - 01/21/14 02:06 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2578
Similar to the Job passage, we have in Romans, chapter 9:

Quote:

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

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#459098 - 01/21/14 02:10 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2578
Similar to the Job passage, we have in Romans, chapter 9:

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says t

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#459099 - 01/21/14 02:10 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2578
Similar to the Job passage, we have in Romans, chapter 9:

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says t

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#459111 - 01/21/14 05:42 PM Re: calling all christian survivors [Re: victor-victim]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Kc,Mo
There are so many places it talks about God pretty much doing what he wants even if we can not comprehend what or why he is doing.

1 Kings 11:12 “But I will not do that while you are still living. Because of your father David I will wait. I will tear the kingdom out of your son’s hand. 13 But I will not tear the whole kingdom away from him. I will give him one of the tribes because of my servant David. I will also do it because of Jerusalem. That is the city I have chosen.”
The Lord Brings Enemies Against Solomon

14 Then the Lord brought an enemy against Solomon
another bible says God raised up an enemy to go against Solomon.

Sovereignty is at the heart once again. God purposefully raising up someone to go against Solomon.


The bottom line for me is getting to the ultimate place for excepting his will no matter what it in tales. If he is who he says he is and I believe he is than he will do what is in the best interest of his creation whether I happen to agree with it or not. When i obey the word of God than his blessings are very evident just as when i walk outside of his word than there are consequences for those actions.
God

(Deuteronomy 11:26-28) In the New Testament Jesus says, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:28) If people choose to reject God’s ways and not follow Him, the Bible tells us that God “will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power.” (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9) This to me speaks of the term hell and what it means in the totality of scripture. Not a lake of burning fire . When the word speaks of weeping and gnashing of teeth I also thing this is a more direct line of thinking what hell is like . Weeping and gnashing of teeth because you would know the many opportunities you had to deny and by pass in order to do your own will and now knowing you are separated from his presence for eternity.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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