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#45698 - 04/04/04 12:45 PM Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
Hi Guy's

Here in the UK a program is highlighting child protection undertaken by the Metropolitan Police, its being shown on mainstream television and goes to show the manipulating personalities of these paedophiles.

At one point they were interviewing a survivor and he happened to mention kissing. It pole axed me. I had forgotten how disgusting that act was I would have rather been penetrated than experience that again (I had been raped by the same perp). For that split second the moment seemed like an eternity and I felt physically sick and felt the sensations in my mouth. I just wanted to scream. I had genuinely forgotten this although reminded of it subconciously with my wife. I thought I had realised all my triggers, just goes to show what an innocent act (of kissing my wife) can be corrupted into.

I was freaked out completely by this that I lost all other interest for the rst of that day and I dont look forward to going to bed for the first time in ages. Any one else feel, the same way?

Regards

Archnut
"And all that was left was hope"


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#45699 - 04/04/04 03:24 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
Right now, I don't like to be touched by anyone at all, including hugging and any kind of kissing. I realize that this is unrealistic, especially since I know a lot of good and compassionate people, family and friends. I hate the idea that I have to remind myself that they are just doing it because they care about me, or that it is just part of their compassionate personality. I'm especially taken aback by strangers who I just meet that do these things. Right now, I'm a firm believer in the 3 foot personal space zone. I get very uncomfortable when anybody invades that zone.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#45700 - 04/04/04 05:20 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Archnut
one of my abusers was a geninely gay older boy, he was one of the gang of abusers at work in the school but he was one year younger than the rest and one year older than me.

When the majority of the gang left, and the teacher who abused me had also left suddenly in the middle of the night that left me in the 4th year and him in the 5th. He knew that I was 'available' and made his move.
By that time I was 'willing to do anything' and I did. But he wanted to kiss, cuddle and hold hands.
That repulsed me so much I can't describe it even now.

I'm not gay bashing here, but this experience was the one thing that told me I wasn't gay.
He was, and still is, as far as I know. But although I would do anything sexually, showing affection wasn't what I did at all, and it wasn't just because I didn't fancy him, I didn't fancy any other male at all.

I still have trouble kissing someone to this day, even after 30 of marriage.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#45701 - 04/04/04 07:11 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
LostandTroubled Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 29
I hated kissing when I was abused. Especially French kissing - it was nasty. *shudders*

Though I haven't ever kissed anyone in a relationship so I can't comment on that.

I also do not like to be touched. Handshakes I can handle, but I don't like it when I'm hugged, especially if I'm touched by an adult man, I have to supress the urge to freak out and tell them "no!". This is hard especially at church - there are so many nice brethren in the church who want to hug me, but I get scared and have to just shake their hand. I don't like it when my dad hugs me or tries to hold me when I cry. I have problems with my parents wanting to kiss my cheek or my head (one of perps always signaled that the sex was over and it was ok for me to get dressed by kissing the side of my head).

I hope it gets easier to deal with touch.
Nao

_________________________
~~Welcome to the World~~
Nicole Sadako - Born: March 29th 2004

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#45702 - 04/04/04 11:40 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
moo2 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 82
Loc: pottsboro,texas
Hi Guys,
There is no french kissing in our house. Edwin is a CSA survivor. No sex hardly at all too. Edwin is only giving me cheek kisses. We have been married for 15 years. It is hard for the spouse side too. We spouses want + need kissing + sex, but we also see the need for you to heal. Both sides are real hard for always.

With Truth In Love,
Kim


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#45703 - 04/05/04 10:36 AM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
you know i love kissing my wife, but i have been with people who i hated to kiss. funny, i have been with a couple of men in my life, and hated kissing them. i wanted the sex, but i didnt want any kissing or embracing from them. i guess that's the seperation between acting out and loving for me.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#45704 - 04/05/04 07:49 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
LupinIII Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 156
I have a lot of problems getting kisses from women unless sex is involved. At the time in my life when I would go to a strip club once a month I never wanted the stripper to kiss me (or talk but thats a story for a different day).

Even today with my wife I have difficulty in non-sexual situations with a simple peck on the lips.

I guess there is something so intimate about kissing, and our intimacy has been so shattered, that it triggers a reaction.


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#45705 - 04/06/04 09:48 AM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
coolcat Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
At times I find the whole sexual realtionship thing very hard to deal with. I just have to remind myself that the person I am with is not my abuser and that this person really does love me.

_________________________
Take it easy, Don't that the sounds of your own wheels drive you crazy....
Gus

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#45706 - 04/06/04 11:42 AM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
I am repulsed by all things having to do with s'x, including kissing, cuddling and holding hands (like Dave).

(Unlike Dave, however, this did not indicate to me that I was/am not gay. Instead, I have always been in the impossible place of of being what I cannot be.)

I don't remember all the specifics or even most of the specifics of why I am this way. Since all forms of abuse (s'xual, physical, verbal) were concurrent, I haven't been able to pick out specific causes for each behavior (or lack thereof).

It used to be that in my mind I would have the idea that kissing or something like it would be a pleasureable experience but then when I did it, it was anything but that.

Brett

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#45707 - 04/06/04 06:24 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
My mother gave me a small peck on the lips the other day. Is this innapropriate? It feels it, but I don't know if thats just my SA talking.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#45708 - 04/06/04 06:47 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Well, this is difficult.

I've been kissed, and it was a wonderful thing because it was by a person I was very fond of. The relationship ended, but that kiss, well, it was one to build memories on!

But I understand the other side too. I've been kissed by people who I didn't want to, but thought I should. I've been FORCED to kiss someone and tell them I loved them (as an adult, while a gun was being aimed at me!), I was kissed, deeply and sexually, as a child.

Sometimes, when it's with someone I care about, it's truly wonderful, whether it's the chaste friendship/pure love kind, or the sexual variety. I like it all. But I also have the images and tastes that go with the truly disgusting things, so kissing can also be a fearsome thing.

Arch, you feel what you feel. It will get to be normal again. You're not alone in being freaked out by it. What with what you've been through, it's no small wonder that you are!

But you'll get better. I know you will.

Quick note to JTT: Well, it could be the SA talking, I don't know. It would depend (in my opinion) on the circumstances of your abuse. And, I imagine, the circumstance of your mom's kiss. I certainly don't think a peck on the lips is sexual, but I don't know your siutation. Are you in therapy right now? This might be something to talk over if you are.

Peace and love to you all,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#45709 - 04/10/04 03:00 AM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
one_day_at_a_time Offline
Member

Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 42
Loc: North Carolina
Dear Brothers,
I can really relate to this intimacy problem. I know that when I first had sex, I wanted to do it so bad. Then when it was over, I felt really dirty. I didnt understand why. I had enjoyed it and loved it, but I felt so strange afterwards and I didnt know why. I didnt want to lie there with my girl, it felt so unbelievably uncomfortable and I wanted to just get up and put my clothes on. I cannot stand to be intimate after sex it makes me feel so violated for some reason (prob the SA I KNOW). This reaction really caused me to question my sexual identity even more than before. Because I thought maybe I felt this way because I was gay and didnt like girls. But I kept having sex anyway. It still plagues me today. That feeling after sex, but I know that it is more because of my abuse than my sexual identity. I hope and pray that with time ( the girl i am with now is amazing and she is truly the first person I have opened to in a long time, unlike the first person I had sex with) She and I are waiting to have sex and I hope that it will be a beautiful and unshameful thing when it finally happens
God Bless Brothers
One Day

_________________________
I found God

now I just need to find myself

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#45710 - 04/11/04 04:59 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Donald D'Haene Offline
Member

Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 68
Loc: London
What a honest and important discussion.
It is, of course, not surprising that how we were abused has everything to do with our issues regarding intimacy.
Because kissing was not involved in my abuse (even though it went on for 11 years), that is one form of intimacy that I find extremely erotic.
I hate being touched from behind by anyone, male or female. This after 20 years, off and on, of excellent therapy. I consider this just one of the things I must live with. I don't blame myself or feel guilty - I just am very aware of my boundaries.
Triggers for flashbacks for me are sounds, voices, smells, or a very unusual question. I've publicly written and spoke about me abuse for 20 years - only the oddest of questions from reporters or other survivors triggers memories that are like movies that play in my mind. I'm not connected to them emotionally.
I've written a book on my story, Father's Touch
http://www.fatherstouch.com

_________________________
Donald D'Haene
http://www.fatherstouch.com

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#45711 - 02/19/05 09:46 AM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Logan Online   sad
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1209
Loc: NY
I'm replying to this topic so that is back in the spot light.
I think it is really an important topic

i was once not to long ago, maybe 2 years ago, faced with the same dilema. I was makin out with this chick and we started kissing and stuff and i got the most disusting sensation and taste i couldn't put my finger on why but it felt like i was kissing him. I stop it and told the girl that i had an apointment somewhere (lie) and that i had to leave

-Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#45712 - 02/19/05 09:48 AM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Logan Online   sad
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1209
Loc: NY
shit i meant to say "could not pick my finger on in THEN"

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#45713 - 02/19/05 03:51 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
I love kissing. And hugging and holding hands.

It's all pretty wonderful stuff as long as it remains in appropriate situations.

In fact it's something that I miss in my life when I spend long periods alone without any intimate contact.

I have a friend who expressed it once very well for me, when he remarked that many times he had engaged in sex with other men just to get the feeling of closeness and intimacy he craved. The same is very true for me.

Over the last several years, mainly by practicing, I have gotten so much better at refusing to participate in any sort of physical contact that doens not feel 'right' to me.

I recently dated a guy and told him before we went out that I don't like to have any 'French' kissing with casual dates. To me that seems like a part of or prelude to lovemaking. And I told him, "I don't want to kiss your tongue, just your lips for now." He was a little taken aback, but managed to respect my boundaries.

For me, I think it is the lack of choice, the memory of being coerced or forced into physical contacts that is triggered and associated with the actual body to body contact.

When I am able to remember that I am an adult now, that I am able to have to power to choose then that feeling of coercion or powerlessness to resist seems to go away.

In my life I associate with many people who for various reasons have found it useful to establish boundaries involving physical contact.

Together, we ask if we may give a hug, or a peck on the cheek or to grab and squeeze someone's hand. Just being asked and being able to say yes or no, makes a huge difference.

My experience is that other people are very unaware of personal boundaries--many assume that whatever works for them is good for others.

Rather than run away freaked out or resentful at what I felt was inappropriate of triggering, I can simply state my feelings and ask for that boundary to be respected.

That gives me such a much better feeling of a controlled situation instead of the chaos and tumult that often accompanied such experiences in the past.

Try asking for what you want. Try telling others what is not appropriate for you. Most people are receptive. Very few of us are very good mind readers.

Thanks,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#45714 - 02/19/05 09:33 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Holding hands, cuddling, and kissing are things I enjoy very much with a woman. In fact, most times I prefer cuddling to sex.

One of my perps was always trying to kiss me. I was always able to avoid it by turning away. With no offense meant to our gay brothers, the sight of and even the idea of two men kissing makes me ill beyond belief. Seeing two men hold hands and hug do not. Even the idea of them making love does not bother me at all. Two people in love is a wonderful thing regardless of their sex. The thought of two men kissing always makes me think of him trying to kiss me. I'd rather be penetrated than kiss a guy.

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#45715 - 02/19/05 09:57 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Dan, it is sad when simple things like kissing can fester emotions, even in a close relationship.

I remember being physically sick at just the thought of sex. UGH!

It took a long time to get over that one.
I am getting a little better at being touched, but if a man touches me sexually then beware, yet I can take all the hugs off my lifelong buddies, and give them back too.

take care,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#45716 - 02/23/05 09:30 PM Re: Kissing (Possible Triggers)
survive75 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 304
Loc: Massachusetts
This is truly an amazing place. I mean, is there anywhere else that a topic like this could be discussed and understood by other people?

I have had extreme stress reactions to being kissed in sexual situations. It is not that I don't enjoy kissing women... just not in connection with sex. For me, sex is sex and love is not part of it at all. I escape into my head during sex and kissing brings me back into my body which is most definately where I don't want to be.

It is so strange that this kind of fear of intimacy has different beginnings (ie some people were kissed by abusers and I was not) but the aversion is the same.

I haven't yet reconciled my issues with sex and am often at risk for flashback, anger, panic, etc. especially when kissing or gentleness is introduced during sex. I don't know... I think I only know sexual arousal in relation to violence and it brings up feelings of not being normal, or disgust with my self, etc. when I have to confront certain types of intimacy.

_________________________
-Sean

"Even though I know/I donít want to know/Yeah I guess I know/I just hate how it sounds"

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