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#455402 - 11/29/13 12:04 AM Tricked by a transexual
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
I'm very upset and traumatized right now. I have posted on this forum before and I was molested by my father when I was 8.

Luckily I have a friend that I can confide in and I told him what happened.

But I would like to get the advice and opinions of other CSA survivors on this.

I'm very emotionally distraught now and what this girl (or MTF transgendered person) did to me I believe should be a crime.

I was talking to this girl which I met online for abt 4 weeks. She was very attractive and no signs that she was not a natural born female. The first time we had sex it was rushed and I didn't really have time to notice anything different. But last night she came over and we went out to eat and came back and had sex twice. She stayed over and left in the morning. Obviously she was a post op transsexual. I won't go into detail but I can now say 100% that it was not a real woman. I know women and how they are with me sexually and I counted a dozen odd clues that point to the fact that this was not a real woman so please take my word for it.

Needless to say as a heterosexual man I am horrified to have learned this and very distraught. I was tricked I feel and if she told me in the beginning then that would have been fair and I could have made a decision but this way that she did it was very wrong in my opinion

Can I get some opinions from the board? My friend who is a good friend but also a party animal and has admittedly spent with a few himself was not that much support and kind of defended her even. It was good that I talk to him but he's also not very mature and capable of helping beyond that.

Please help. I plan on telling my therapist in a week. I'm feeling disgusted right now I even made myself puke today I was so mortified by what I found out.

Thank you.

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#455404 - 11/29/13 12:35 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Cthulhu Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 126
Loc: Cascadia
Hey,

I am very sorry you are experience this trauma. But I find it difficult to reply. fist, I acknowledge your pain and your right to feel betrayed or tricked. But, I also want to stress that many trans people, especially after gender reassignment often do not consider themselves their sex and gender anything but what they present as. For transwomen in particular disclosure of their previous life or gender assigned at birth can be met with extreme violence. It is likely she felt that her previous gender identity irrelevant to who she is now. That she was not trying to trick or betray, but to be safe and move on with her life.

I am hoping I am not coming across as rude or like I am trying to devalue your experience. Sex is obviously a very sensitive aspect in the lives of everyone here.

I just think you can maybe reframe this to be something other than an attack on your sexuality and masculinity. You are still a man and you are still straight. This experience does not have to infringe on those identities for you.

I am sorry if this in unwelcome. If it is I can remove it, and I apologize.


-VoteCthuhu
_________________________
"Well, I'll be damned
A calf is easy to brand"
-Cass McCombs, Memory's Stain

my story context

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#455407 - 11/29/13 12:46 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Wrong you're just flat out wrong.

Listen. I'm not threatened or think I'm gay now I'm not worried abt my sexuality. Im trying to make a point that this person mislead me in many ways to make me think she was a Natural born woman who could give birth to children if it ever came to it. Eventually if the relationship got serious she would have to disclose this.

This it not abt me trying to be macho or worry about my sexuality. This is beyond that and I should t have to defend myself.

This lady cannot expect me to take the same stance as her. If she was born a male the to me I was having sex with a male. But the issue is she mislead me and didn't Identify herself as a transgendered women as many women are doing now on dating sites like the one I met her on so it is not u uncommon and they don't have to worry about viloince. But trick a guy and he finds out? Then yea I would worry if I would worry if I were them. But not from me.

Is there anyone out there who can offer some support and understand this or do I just need to wait until I talk to my therapist lol what a joke.

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#455408 - 11/29/13 01:35 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Cthulhu Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 126
Loc: Cascadia
I am sorry my words were unwelcome and unhelpful. I hope and except you can find the support you need from other users here.
_________________________
"Well, I'll be damned
A calf is easy to brand"
-Cass McCombs, Memory's Stain

my story context

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#455411 - 11/29/13 02:08 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1369
Loc: New England
Whoa there nomad! No one accused you of anything. Take a breath man.

Lots of women misrepresent themselves in lots of different ways, so do men. Its part of the game. You seem sure of her being trans, but think of this woman's situation. She see's herself as a woman, and has had herself modified to look and feel the part. She may not consider herself to be a man masquerading as a woman, but rather a woman who was previously trapped in a man's body.

So when does someone in this position disclose her status to a date or sex partner? Online? First date? Before hitting the sheets? After? At all? Thats a personal decision no one else can answer for her. This is uncharted territory.

At the same time, you have a right to your feelings about this. I would say in general that a CSA/ASA survivor would be especially sensitive about this because of our history of being betrayed around sex. Finding out you were rolling around with a genetically male sex partner certainly could be very triggering. How's a guy supposed to feel about this? Some men, like your buddy, have no problem with it. Others would. Again, this is uncharted territory.

If I were in your situation, I think I just would end the relationship without confronting her about her gender identity, and then try to let go of it. Learning where NOT to put your penis is a part of being a man. Really. Consider this a lesson learned, and move on.

BTW, there's an old song by the Kinks about this situation, called "Lola" Here's the link: http://youtu.be/Ixqbc7X2NQY
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola"

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#455413 - 11/29/13 02:25 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2974
Loc: O Kanada
i understand what you are going through.

has this person confirmed your suspicions?

have you confronted her about it?

whenever someone conceals a vital fact about their history or personality,
which is discovered or disclosed after intimacy,
there is usually a feeling of betrayal.

we all have secrets.
fear keeps us from revealing them.
i figure the time to discuss this stuff is before the feelings start and the physical fun begins.

obviously this person did not care about your opinion regarding transsexuals, or was afraid of it.
i don't agree with what she did.
i would be upset, too.


surprise situations like the one you describe,
plus the emergence of HIV/AIDS in the 1980's,
is what inevitably drove me to celibacy
and finally monogamy and marriage.

prior to that, i would have sex with anyone anywhere anytime,
as long as i was attracted to them.
promiscuity was pure pleasure, with crappy consequences.
i got tired of sleeping with strangers.

i went from one extreme to the next.

i dated my wife for six months before we slept together.
before i let it get to that stage, i told her i was a rape victim, but i did not disclose details.

i did not want to deceive her about who she was getting into bed with.
as this person did with you.

you have every right to be upset.
you were not respected.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#455441 - 11/29/13 12:11 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
I feel victimized and I feel raped by an undisclosed natural born male. In fact we were texting all week before this last meeting and they were very sexual and in her txt she kept on telling me she was going to rape me and that's what I feel like happened. Jude, no kind of trying to explain her side and trying to make me feel pity or feel sorry for her will make this feeling I'm experiencing now go away.

This is why I think this should be a crime and punishable by the law. I should be able to report her to authorities. These women (and she even told me that a lot of her friends are trannies) go to clubs and prey on unsuspecting straight men. These woman including the one I was with are typically very attractive but they really are not natural born women. They're not attracted to any other kind or gay men. I feel like it's concealment and deception and if that man every finds out during or after the fact then it could no doubt cause emotional trauma as in my case.

What do you expect me to do? Carry the burden and shame of this? Again like I also did for my father who molested me? Or do I not have a right here too? There is no advocate for the unsuspecting straight man in this case but in this case he was the victim. I feel disgusted by this.

And for those who are not familiar with the dating sites these days, there are many transexuals posting profiles but I know this because they put this front and center and let the person decide. This is how I met this person, on a dating sight and she led me to believe she was natural born and could eventually have kids. She even lied abt being on birth control.

I haven't confronted her yet but I'm thinking abt doing it by sending her an email. I just want to move on from this and will talk to my therapist about it.

I believe I am not out of line here and if we are going to accept transexuals into our society like we are already doing and having laws to protect them which we are already doing then we need laws to protect the other parties too. A simple disclosure on the profile or by text before meeting it all they need To do and many of them already get this. And don't need coddling or being felt sorry for and enable them to carry on a deception.

Victor, what you did with your wife was very honorable and respectful to her and thanks for your response and understanding.

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#455446 - 11/29/13 12:47 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: Jude]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: Jude



BTW, there's an old song by the Kinks about this situation, called "Lola" Here's the link: http://youtu.be/Ixqbc7X2NQY
"Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for Lola"



And it doesn't matter if there's a song from the early 70s that made this cool or popularized it. I'm sure people didn't care much abt sexual abuse against boys either and brushed it under the rug.

I'm sorry if people think I'm being sensitive here but they are ignoring a very legitimate offense and you don't think it would bother you until you are the actual victim.

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#455451 - 11/29/13 01:17 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
KMCINVA Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1445
You may need to talk to someone with knowledge in this area to help you sort out your emotions and feelings. I have no idea what to say or how to respond.

Take a deep breath and find someone who can help you. You do not want to let this experience control you and take away all your efforts in healing.

Good luck.

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#455496 - 11/29/13 07:56 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
George Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 107
Loc: NY metro

Nomad,

I think most men outside our group here would be pissed about being hoodwinked by a transsexual, there's no doubt in my mind. She/he may have their own issues for sure, but them being honest before the first meeting would be the smart way to handle things, especially if they are worried about violence. It's not like there aren't enough guys who get into trannies & cross dressers, if it's just a romp they are looking for.

Your right, I believe if your going out looking for a possible wife with children in mind, even if it's further in the back of your mind, being a trany and not disclosing that fact is wrong.

Yeah, even for self esteem & machismo reasons alone it's a betrayal & wrong. If getting what you need could hurt or violate someone else & you knowingly risk that other person, it's abusive in my mind.

Not a crime, but wrong just the same.

That all being said...I would've been one of the guys who wouldn't have minded, I used to act out with guys years ago, but I can certainly appreciate your position & your right to be upset.

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#455590 - 11/30/13 04:29 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
George

Thanks for your reply. I'm very aware that I'm not getting much support in this area. Being a grown man I should be able to make better decisions and well that is true. But you understood it correctly. It was very helpful to read it. I was mislead and it was a major deception. It's unfortunate but I'm doing better now. I sent her/him a message that was straight to the point and gave me some closure. I'll move on and knowing what I know now with this new experience I'll definitely be prepared if ever faced with this again.

The bigger picture I see is that this is a new epidemic that is happening in our society that previous generations didn't have to face. But if you're younger and dating online or in any trendy club you will come across these transgendered women. And it may not be a problem as Long as it's disclosed but it is the misleading element of it that is disturbing to me. Many men may like these women and they are very attractive and sometimes the better looking of the lot but many men would not want to sleep with a woman who they believed to be a natural born women only to find out later that it was not.

This is not the first time it will come up on forums I am almost certain of that.

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#455606 - 11/30/13 07:23 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
risingagain Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 588
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I once slept with a transsexual man... It was an awesome experience. He was really clear with me, 'look, I was born a woman, but I'm a man now. Is that going to be a problem for you?'. I was like, 'well I don't know, I've never done this before, but I'm open minded.' It was a good experience for me.

Your mileage may vary.

I'm sorry this person wasn't up front with you. But, given the stigma around being transsexual, I'm not surprised. There is nothing wrong with changing genders. This person would have done the right thing to be clear with you before sleeping with you.

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#455618 - 11/30/13 08:59 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
Nomad,

*** Full Disclosure: I'm not transgender, but I have worked with transgender men and women and worked on transgender rights issues for the last several years. ***

I'm going to assume that your judgment of her as a trans-woman is correct and can understand your surprise and hurt that this woman didn't disclose that she was once biologically male. We know that as survivors we can be ultra-sensitive to people withholding information from us, especially related to sexual intimacy.

Ideally, people who are transgender should disclose to their partners before it gets intimate so there are no surprises for anyone. Practically, though, there are lots of reasons why a woman who has been through gender confirmation procedures might not want to bring it up. Violence against transgender women is epidemic and many are terrified of disclosing lest they become another statistic. Many men are less knowledgeable and aren't able to discern that a woman has been through gender confirmation. It's very likely that when you didn't mention it to her after your initial sexual encounter she might have though you were one of those men.

It's also very likely this woman had the horrible experience of being born in the wrong body with the wrong genitals and feeling horror and revulsion every time she had to look in the mirror. Building up to their transition is an incredibly stressful time and once it's passed she would want to forget that she ever had the wrong body and live as who she always was on the inside and is now on the outside - a woman. Many transgender woman (and men) "go stealth" to live fully in their confirmed gender and avoid being discriminated against and marginalized. I've seen this in my own workplace.

None of these are excuses for her failure to disclose, or lessens the impact it had on you. All the same, these are things you might want to consider in mitigation before you speak with her next. I also recommend that you consider applying the "golden rule" in your conversations with her. The experience she has had to live though is as traumatic in its way as childhood sexual abuse. Show her some of the gentleness you'd like to recieve from others as you talk about your feelings with her. Remember that to her she may not believe she has "tricked" anyone because she has always felt she was a woman and she went through a physical and emotional ordeal to affirm that truth.

I'm sorry that you found yourself in this situation, Nomad. No survivor likes to feel as though they have been lied to. I hope you can talk openly and calmly with this woman and share your feelings and what you'd have preferred she had done.

-efm
_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#455629 - 11/30/13 09:40 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 360
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Nomad,

If you are going to do online dating, wouldn't it be simple to just say "No Trannies"?

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#455657 - 11/30/13 10:59 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Again, shocking that the onus is being put on me here again by many on this board. Finding excuses for her and why she did what she did is not all that different than finding excuses why an adult would molest a child. There is no valid excuse really. And most people on here agrees with that so why is the fact that she had a hard time living as a transgendered person negate the wrong that she did?

I had a hard time growing up knowing that my father molested me but as a person and an adult given full responsibility for my actions I have no right or excuses for abusing or molesting anyone else.

They are not mutually exclusive. I can have empathy for someone who believes they were born in the wrong body without giving them the green light to go abuse or violate others in the process of working out their trials.

I am a compassionate person with empathy. Who right now is disgusted that I had to experience this. And guess what? I have 100% validity in feeling the way I do regardless whether the majority of people (even those who were sexually abuses) want to acknowledge it. Most people can understand this.

Just imagine 10 heterosexual men who are as good as any other man have sex with a woman 3 times only to find out after that it was not a natural born woman. I can assure you that the majority of them may have felt betrayed, violated, abused, victimized and even disgusted (not worried about their heterosexuality but just turned off by it all). And you might see my point. However there is no advocate for the heterosexual man in this world and I find that interesting.


Edited by nomad510 (11/30/13 11:02 PM)

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#455684 - 12/01/13 02:39 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 360
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Nomad,

I'm sorry the tranny was not able to be truthful with you, and I do understand what a massive issue trust is with myself, so I can imagine how betrayed you feel. My experience is that anger is usually connected to feeling helpless, and you are not helpless in this situation. You do not have any power to change others, however you do have the power to take what you have learned about yourself in this situation and take care of yourself. You may need to do a lot more venting about this, and venting feels healthy to me. But, if you plan to do any more online dating, it seems there is a way that you can take care of yourself.

Now, for me, I had a lot of early childhood violence as well as sexual abuse and torture. I am 64 and have been in therapy and in treatments of various kinds since I was 20. Learning to be proactive in caring for myself has been extremely difficult, because I have deep and early programs that say that if I speak up I will be harmed or possibly killed. At 64 I am beginning to break down those old beliefs and know there is no truth to them. I want to support you with your venting and rage at being betrayed. I also want to support you in knowing that you do have some control over what happens to you. It has taken me decades to make some progress with this. I would not want that for you.

Wishing you well,

Don

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#455686 - 12/01/13 03:03 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
In case people don't know, the word "tranny" is pejorative and is as discriminatory as saying "f*g" or "n*gg*r" or "k*k*". Please avoid using this term as it is deeply offensive and creates a transphobic atmosphere for any trans-men (and we know there are several) seeking help for their abuse here at Malesurvivor.

Thanks for considering the experience of other survivors...

-efm
_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#455690 - 12/01/13 08:21 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
SamV Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5935
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Nomad,

These replies have been supportive, they are the very real feelings and experiences of fellow survivors. Please understand them as the honest shares as they have been offered. The point that stand out to me, over and over, is that the community here understands that you feel betrayed by someone you gave complete access to, that can trigger feelings of being abused or assaulted. They empathize with your previous sexual abuse and that feeling of being taken advantage of in this situation. The support is palpable.

What you seem to be advocating is for an identification process or something even more invasive for transgender that the community cannot support. That is their prerogative. This is not the forum to discuss that action. We encourage you to continue to express your feelings of betrayal at the lack of disclosure and how that may have triggered the previous abuse memories.

Discussing specific transgender identification behavior or processes is not within our purview.

Sam
_________________________
My SENSITIVE Difference

"Lets talk about that."

Go Get A Hug: HUG>porn

*When provoked* "Anyone holding back his sayings is possessed of knowledge. (Proverbs 17:27)"

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#455696 - 12/01/13 10:34 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
wallflower Offline


Registered: 09/23/13
Posts: 5
dude you were acting out. if you were looking for a "mate" to have kids with then you were considering a relationship with someone who said they were going to rape you. Start being honest in your recovery and you will recover instead of acting out. And this is being supportive.


Edited by wallflower (12/01/13 10:35 AM)

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#455700 - 12/01/13 11:30 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1211
Quote:
I feel victimized and I feel raped by an undisclosed natural born male. ... shocking that the onus is being put on me here again by many on this board.

You have my sympathies, Nomad, that you entered into a sexual relationship under false pretenses. There are many people in the world who lack the strength or self-confidence to be as honest as perhaps they should be. There are many people who represent themselves as other than who they really are.

From everything you have described, this situation was fully consensual, albeit under an unfair misperception. To come here - a place where rape means the deepest violation of one's boundaries, where rape means one was powerless to stop the sex from happening, where rape repercussed so extensively as to require therapy to sort through - and use it to describe the pain of essentially engaging in a sexual relationship outside your comfort zone, is probably not going to generate much emotional resonance with the members of this forum.

I do not belittle your concerns - I just think it might be more appropriate to address them in a forum designed for discussing adult relational issues.
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#455709 - 12/01/13 03:12 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2974
Loc: O Kanada
this is my own personal experience after a decade of "free love" and "one night stands" and "zipperless sex" and "love the one you're with" philosophy and lifestyle.

during that decade, when i was sexually promiscuous,
i was lied to and tricked by several transsexuals and transvestites.
i was also lied to and tricked by homosexual males who pretended to be heterosexual until i was in a vulnerable position (drunk and passed out).
i was also deceived by almost every woman i slept with.
i have had women tell me, after sex, that they are married,
but they didn't want to tell me beforehand, because they were worried that i would be "turned off" by that.

it made me angry every time.
this is why i stopped sleeping with strangers.

lying about who you are, to obtain sex,
is disgusting predatory behavior.
unfortunately, it is common and normal human behaviour.
it is also very risky, as people who feel betrayed can turn ugly and violent very quickly.
this too, i have witnessed and experienced often.

pretending to be someone else, projecting a persona, fear of rejection, sexual conquest, dishonest intimacy, shallow pillow talk, fraud, prestidigitation, exaggeration, betrayal, deception, delusion, camouflage, abandonment...
all of these are standard operating procedure for the majority of sexually available and active people.
you are navigating treacherous waters... the lonely singles.
you must protect yourself at all times!

what happened to you was wrong.
as long as you are looking for love,
you will be lied to.
people will say and do just about anything to get laid and avoid rejection.
some liars even know they can't get away with it forever, and they are only delaying discovery, but they will continue denying the lie long after they are caught and convicted by indisputable truth. they just move on to the next victim.

please be cautious, wary, careful, and skeptic, while you search for your soul mate.
trust and respect and intimacy must be withheld until the potential partner's professed personality or history has been verified to your satisfaction.

protect your soul at all times.

next time you have an opportunity for intimacy,
think about what pain you are enduring right now,
and ask yourself if it this ride is worth the price of admission.

take your time before bedding.
desperation and desire can make a person gullible and vulnerable.

tricking a person into consenting to sexual contact,
either by fabricating or withholding crucial information,
in my opinion,
and in my experience,
is morally equivalent to rape,
because the betrayed person feels deeply violated.

it does not legally qualify as rape,
anyone who has experienced what you describe,
knows how disgusted and angry you feel inside.

defending the perpetrator because we are sensitive to their "condition" is not what the victim needs to hear.

the person doing the deception, is hoping that they will get what they need from the other person, under false pretenses.
they hope that the discovery of truth will come too late.
there is the faint hope that the other person will "love" them enough by then, that the relationship will survive and continue after the disclosure, based on emotional investments.
they are trying to limit the deceived persons options.
slowly trapping them in a relationship they would otherwise not have agreed to co-create.


some men do not seek or enjoy intimate physical contact with other men, under any circumstances.
the fact that the man does not want to be male, and has decided to live as a woman to the point where they are surgically altering their birth body, does not make them a woman, in the eyes of some people.
it does not make them any less human.
i can respect their situation and treat them like a lady,
but i do not want sex with that person, as long as i am aware they were born male.
strictly heterosexual men have a right to their preference, just as any other man.
i am sure that most transgender people are painfully aware of this, and dearly wish it was not so.
nonetheless, it is true, and not likely to change.

in the bad old days (before AIDS panic),
we had the following (unscientific) categories...
---------------------------------
asexual: no sex. period. not interested.
monosexual: lonely masturbator.
heterosexual: guys and gals only.
homosexual: no members of opposite sex, please.
bisexual: swinging both ways.
trysexual: if it's sexual, i'll try it. (that was me)

i have been all of the above,
at one time or another,
but i was always a hetero at heart.
i tried to be trysexual.
after several stressful situations,
same as yours, and similar,
i made the conscious decision to be monosexual.
that eventually evolved into my current monogamous marriage.

if you know who you are, and who you want to be with...
it is time to be honest and to seek honesty in your potential partner.

you don't have to take my advice,
but i highly recommend you resist your urges and delay the sex until you are 1000% sure you can risk intimacy.
or else... grow some teflon rhino hide, and be prepared for an emotional nightmare of lies and betrayal.

no matter how careful you screen your dates,
you will still feel deceived and betrayed.

i am still feeling that way with my wife,
and we have been together for 30 years.
those fears and doubts have haunted me to this day.
the wonderful thing is, they no longer threaten me.
i accept them as normal human flaws that i share with every other human being.
these are not symptoms of my personal history.
such things are enhanced and distorted by CSA,
but not caused by it.

it is important that you realize that those negative emotions you experience are YOURS!
you own them.
no one can tell you they are not valid.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#455715 - 12/01/13 03:48 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2974
Loc: O Kanada
nomad, i gave this some more thought.

perhaps, you should discuss having children with any potential partner.
that is a subtle way of broaching the subject.

you should let the other person know what your "deal breakers" are before you get physical.

hope i have not offended you are anyone else with my honesty about this extremely sensitive subject.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#455753 - 12/01/13 10:41 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Modetator,

I am not advocating. I was simply stating my opinion that my experience of betrayal by a transgendered woman who didn't disclose their gender before sleeping with me multiple times felt "criminal" to me. To me. This is my experience and this is how I felt and I thought this was the safe place to express my opinions and feeling and not be judged or silenced and since it is a board here to serve male abuse victims I assumed a higher level of understanding regarding sexual betrayal.

If my freedom of speech is not welcome here then you have the right and power to delete my post but I do not believe that will serve the greater purpose of this forum.

Again. I am not writing my experience to advocate for any laws to make what happened to me a crime. Although I have every right to pursue that avenue if I chose to, but, I would not attempt to do that here on a forum where I was simply looking for kind words of support and encouragement. ( I did get that from a few posters and that I am grateful for).

I belive that If someone reading my original post doesn't agree with how I felt or should feel or my opinions of the level if severity that they can simply move on to the next post or decide to comment as they did.


Edited by nomad510 (12/01/13 10:43 PM)

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#455754 - 12/01/13 10:51 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: wallflower]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: wallflower
dude you were acting out. if you were looking for a "mate" to have kids with then you were considering a relationship with someone who said they were going to rape you. Start being honest in your recovery and you will recover instead of acting out. And this is being supportive.


I don't belive I was acting out wallflower. This was a girl/guy that I was talking to for a long time. She told me from the very beginning that she was serious and I believed her. Yes as the relationship progressed the texting became sexual which was initiated by her as I usually don't sext and there were several heated txts back and forth where she stated that she was going to rape me. If it was a girl as I assumed at the time it would have been a turn on and it was. I do t judge her or myself to be sexual on txt and I don't see this relationship as part of my acting out. I did that several years ago and I am ready and serious abt finding someone right now. By all accounts this person seemed to be a healthy person both sexually and mentally and it seemed like were developing something meaningful that could lead into something serious.

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#455757 - 12/01/13 11:27 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Hi victor-victim

Thanks again for sharing your story and insights. I spent years acting out and can relate to some of your experience. I find it encouraging to hear so many stories of men who had similar experiences and hear how they finally found a wife after it all.

Despite my most recent experience I feel I am in a much better place in my healing and hope to find the same. And I feel like since this experience happened i won't be fooled if ever faced with it again and as you suggested there are certain conversations that I can have to help filter out these experiences.

Looking back much of the problem was that I was blinded to who this person really was and overlooked many of the signs that all became apparent later. And how and why did this happen? Because this person was better looking than most women I come in contact with on a regulator basis and that it what makes this experience so frieghtening.


Edited by nomad510 (12/01/13 11:30 PM)

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#455758 - 12/02/13 12:32 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
wallflower Offline


Registered: 09/23/13
Posts: 5
Nomad, I have been going through the recovery process for years. It seems that you have only begun your recovery. My advice to you is to hold off on relationships. The reason is because, and I am surprised your therapist hasn't advised this, you will continue to attract unhealthy relationships until the process has run it's course. You will bounce from one bad relationship to the next. I'm not trying to be harsh, but you attracted this. Speaking to her for 4 weeks by text is hardly time and energy spent getting to know a person. Your judgement is questionable when you say things like that. Also a person who was raped would not be turned on by rape texts. A lot of things don't add up for me and it's your naive way you defend your fake relationship as justification for your outrage. I'm not saying what she did was right but you young man are in no position to find a healthy relationship. You are by no means recovered. I say this with all the love of a brother. You have a long way to go. Trust me. Good luck and don't rush your recovery out of loneliness. Find a good network of friends and lean on them while you recover. There is a 12 step process and it took me years to go through it. Heal well.

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#455766 - 12/02/13 04:42 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 360
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE TO THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY. I was never online before May 29 of this year and have been a hermit for many years. I have never knowingly had a conversation with a transgender person and have never had a conversation with anyone about a transgender person. I am simply ignorant on the subject and so unknowingly made a reference of "tranny" that I now know was insensitive. I am gay, and if I read an online reference that said "no fags" I would be upset. Let me say that I have NO judgments about anyone's choice to choose transgender. Again, please accept my apology. It was from ignorance.

Sincerely,

Don

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#456198 - 12/06/13 01:06 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 151
hold a moment. you feel you wre raped by a post op trans gendered now female a MTF?

We are on a survivor site so i need to be a lot more sensitive than i would be otherwise. you obviously were turned on by what you saw tasted and felt. she didnt coerce you or threaten you.

if you get a bj in the dark anf find out its a dude and not a chick is that rape too.

im sorry for your pain but you are spinning this out of control a bit. if you think this was abusive? reallly?
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#456203 - 12/06/13 02:57 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: Tyr]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 151
Watch this weeks
Two anda half Men. Somehow Alan bangs a transgendered, finds out and goes on dates with her and gets over it and finds he likes 'her'. if you liked it more than once, why not acknowledge it and process it instead of spinning it as a negative


Edited by Tyr (12/06/13 06:55 PM)
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#456208 - 12/06/13 04:05 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
newground Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 646
Loc: michigan
I'm not certain exactly where this conversation is headed. but I would like to speak a word of caution. our experiences create who we are to a large degree. it is to our own sense of correctness that we must answer. it is easy to become hurtful toward others when our own sense does not match that of another. that does not make an event any less traumatic for them, only more so.I would hope that our common wounds would cause us to be sensitive to the pain of others,even if we do not share it. the feeling of betrayal from a partner not being forthcoming with that kind of information is not surprising. perhaps the relationship can move, perhaps not. but it is not bigotry or prejudice that caused the break if it occurs. it is common dishonesty
_________________________
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, thou damned whale! Thus, I give up the spear!"
Herman Melville

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#456209 - 12/06/13 04:07 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1211
I stand by everything I said in my first response to you, Nomad. I don't think it is a question of severity as much as category. I do not minimize what you feel, and am amazed that anyone here would do that, because if anyone is sensitive to "get over it" or "stuff it", I would imagine male victims of sexual abuse would top that list. That said, I hope you can find a forum or support system geared more to the type of trust violation you experienced.
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#456228 - 12/06/13 06:48 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: Chase Eric]
Tyr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/05/11
Posts: 151


I do not belittle your concerns - I just think it might be more appropriate to address them in a forum designed for discussing adult relational issues. [/quote]

what Moderator said. You weren't "raped dude" you went out of your comfort zone and you liked it and you are now retconning your guilt and making it something it wasnt .

when i was raped a dude held a knife to me and asked me which of my cats i prefer he killed. DO NOT come here telling me that you having intercourse consensually in a solid aware state is rape.
_________________________
Once you hear the details of victory, it is hard to distinguish it from a defeat.

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#456230 - 12/06/13 07:00 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2974
Loc: O Kanada
i was raped by a serial killer, Tyr.
my trauma does not make nomad's experience less traumatic to him.

nomad came here for help, comfort and support, like all of us.
if we cannot provide that, it is best not to condemn or project hostility.
we should not minimize the emotions of any survivor.
perhaps this event has been a severe trigger to deeper subconscious issues, that nomad is only beginning to process.

one thing i have learned here is that the different types of abuse cannot be compared.
i do not wish to minimize your experience, either, Tyr.
each individual is unique, despite our similarities.

we all behave and react according to our own programs.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#456241 - 12/06/13 08:45 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: Tyr]
Cthulhu Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 126
Loc: Cascadia
Tyr,

Please. Nomad has experiences. You have experiences. We all do. That is why we are here. Nomad experiencing this sexual encounter as rape does not impinge on your abuses. We are all just desperately trying to process the world as best we can.

Please. If you feel irritated, annoyed or angered by this post then seek your own support for your own abuses and how this thread interacts with them - but please let nomad have his thread and his healing.

And Tyr, I am sorry - I do not know the intention of your words but the effect was belittling . They were unkind in effect. Again, I do not know, nor am I making, any judgement about your intent. I am sorry if this isn't received well. Just please, let nomad and those giving nomad support be.


Heal well everyone,


-VoteCthulhu


Edited by votecthulhu (12/06/13 08:54 PM)
_________________________
"Well, I'll be damned
A calf is easy to brand"
-Cass McCombs, Memory's Stain

my story context

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#456244 - 12/06/13 08:52 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
As survivors, we know that it's not about what happened to us, it's about the impact what happened has had on us. As a result, there is just no point to comparing our pain with someone else's. That just encourages us to wallow in victimhood instead of moving beyond it and being survivors.

Everyone who is in pain deserves to have their pain soothed.

-efm
_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#456261 - 12/06/13 11:40 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Thanks for the support guys,

Again, I know it's probably hard for people to understand exactly what happened to me and maybe I'm not articulating it the best way possible.

However, I was quite shocked to get some of the ridicule and hostility that I got when I was simply attempting to air out this experience which was legitimately traumatic to me.

I used words like 'rape' and 'crime' which technically may not hold water. But guess what, that doesn't matter, this is how I felt, period. I'm entitled to that and to feel my feelings and they aren't necessarily right or wrong -- they just are. This was some insight that my therapist gave me and it has been helpful. And I know that everyone on here in their best state of mind can understand this.

I am happy to say that after a week of dealing with this and talking to a friend and therapist that I am feeling much better. Although some of the effect are still there. I am an adult and grateful that I now have the tools to deal with something traumatic that I didn't have when I was younger.

Of course I'm not trying to compare my experience with anyone else's, that would be silly. We can't know exactly how others experiences where, especially though a forum. I just used the word that best described what it felt like for me the feeling of having sex with someone who you didn't want to have sex with. That being in my case, someone who was not naturally born as a woman but concealed this identity to hide this fact. Some people still may not understand this and that's OK with me. I only came here for positive words and support and there were enough people on this board who offered that and I am grateful for this.

I am doing much better now guys, but this was a very traumatic thing for me a week ago and I had to go to thanksgiving dinner just hours after I discovered the facts. Not an easy thing to do.

Thanks again and best to all.

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#456262 - 12/06/13 11:43 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: newground]
nomad510 Offline


Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: newground
I'm not certain exactly where this conversation is headed. but I would like to speak a word of caution. our experiences create who we are to a large degree. it is to our own sense of correctness that we must answer. it is easy to become hurtful toward others when our own sense does not match that of another. that does not make an event any less traumatic for them, only more so.I would hope that our common wounds would cause us to be sensitive to the pain of others,even if we do not share it. the feeling of betrayal from a partner not being forthcoming with that kind of information is not surprising. perhaps the relationship can move, perhaps not. but it is not bigotry or prejudice that caused the break if it occurs. it is common dishonesty


Thanks for these kind words newground, very much hit the nail on the head for me...

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#456272 - 12/07/13 01:05 AM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
Cthulhu Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 126
Loc: Cascadia
hey nomad,

I am genuinely happy to hear your T was able to help you deal with this. I know my first post wasn't at all you needed. I hummed and hawed about sending that. I am sorry I did. I really am. I am also glad the negative responses to your post have not seemed to poison your experience here,and that you were able to absorb the words of those who were kind and helpful and more able to understand you, but I am sorry had to repeat your stance and just ask for healing and understanding so many times.

I was worried that it would be more troubling to you. I know I would have a lot of trouble dealing with people attacking something if I posted it. I am glad you seem stronger than I laugh

So yeah, sorry I was probably more hurtful than helpful and I am glad you seem to be processing this well.

Take care,



VoteCthulhu


Edited by votecthulhu (12/07/13 01:06 AM)
Edit Reason: word form
_________________________
"Well, I'll be damned
A calf is easy to brand"
-Cass McCombs, Memory's Stain

my story context

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#456310 - 12/07/13 01:44 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2974
Loc: O Kanada
i am really glad you are coming to terms with what happened, nomad.

i do apologize for the negative reactions you received here from other members.
hopefully it did not upset you too much.
i am happy it did not drive you away, as has happened to other people who can't handle intense emotionally negative responses.

there is a lot of negative emotion and hostility in this membership.
i have encountered much of it myself.
this whole website is full of hair triggers, hidden land mines, control issues, and overreactions.
some people take things personally, and often infer what is not implied.
someone in defensive posture, is constantly on the lookout for threats. a proactive defensive posture requires imagining potential threats from unexpected angles.
it that mindset, it is easy to read insults between the lines.


unfortunately, that is to be expected from a community of survivors.

people here are at all different stages of recovery.
so it is near impossible to gauge responses.

if you keep reminding yourself, hopefully, you will be able to understand and cope with the reactions here.

i personally, did not come here to direct my anger at other survivors. that is not my desire, goal, or intention, whatsoever. but, it seems, other members are not so reluctant to dump on their fellow survivors.

it is sad.

i hope i was of some small help to you.
please continue to ignore the negative.

_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#456466 - 12/09/13 12:02 PM Re: Tricked by a transexual [Re: nomad510]
ModTeam Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 690
The moderator team has decided that this thread has run it's course and will be closed at this time. There were a number of concerns that members of the MaleSurvivor community have expressed, those concerns have been carefully considered in this action including the insensitive dismissal of a survivor's struggle and unsettling comments that were offered in misunderstanding that slighted the transgendered community.

We are encouraged that some of the remarks were corrected by the posters to reflect a greater tolerance and understanding. Within these strong opinions, we applaud those who elevated the conversation by focusing on support rather than division, who expressed their assertive thoughts without hostility. Above all, this is a place for all members to feel safe. We want to be very clear that MaleSurvivor supports with full respect and dignity all survivors without bias nor prejudice.

This topic is closed and it cannot be opened in this nor any other public forum within the site. Thank you for your cooperation.

The Moderator Team
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