Newest Members
lilac, The Wife Of, smusab, whiteflag, North101
12287 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
cards (33), korbin2003 (39), Rosemary (53), Zebra (47)
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 26 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12287 Members
73 Forums
63212 Topics
442011 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#454108 - 11/17/13 07:56 AM The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough
SayItRight Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 63
Guys,

I don't know if this happens to you as well, or how often, but one thing I hate the most lately is this thing, whatever it is, that wakes me up, usually at around 3 or 4:00 (today was a little later, 5:00, so I got to sleep in a little).

Sometimes it's a nightmare, pretty vivid, sometimes, like today, it's just a thing, but nothing I remember, but I wake up from it different ways on different days: heart-pounding, fear reaction, angry, exahusted, sad.

It seems so far removed from anything going on in my life right now. What's worse is that good days, or good things, seem to bring it on as much (or maybe even more) as bad or stressful days.

One thing I will say about it that is different today: today, I feel bad for myself about it. Today, I feel like: "man, maybe I really do need some professional help to work on some things." (I mean, I re-started therapy, but I still need to make the case for it to myself over and over).

Today, I feel sad for myself - but in a good way - similar to something that happened not too long ago; maybe I'm suspending some kind of usually intense internal hatred. I can't imagine it ever going away completely but it is nice to feel a little differently towards myself, even if it is this "sadness" or whatever it's called.

Here's the thing: If I were really going to be honest (and since I'm being so honest about this morning I'm sort of trying to give this last step a shot too) I would say that what I would also like is some support, or some company, or some I don't know quite exactly what.

This is difficult for me to (almost) say. Saying something like this in the environment I grew up in would do nothing other than guarantee me a worse disaster. (Just being honest there too). Writing just the little that I wrote just above triggers some pretty severe backlash in me, but fuck it, I wrote it, it's staying.

So, there you have it: rough morning, found myself feeling bad for myself about it (finally), feel like "hey, yeah, maybe I do have some things that would be good to work through," and also feeling like I want a connection.

There it is.



Edited by SayItRight (11/17/13 09:25 AM)
Edit Reason: typos
_________________________



Top
#454115 - 11/17/13 09:35 AM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 592
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi SIR,

I frequently have feelings like you are describing. I wake up from dreams that sometimes make sense and sometimes don't make sense. For me, it seems that my subconscious is always processing everything. And, I suspect that it always processes everything in order of importance to my process. I don't necessarily mean any kind or order like most traumatic, most recent,etc, but what is most important for me to grow.

So, I always just do the best I can to say "How does this make me feel." That question usually circumvents my intellect where I can get stuck. When I can reduce it to the feeling level I always recognize familiar ground. And, when I can recognize familiar ground I can sometimes move back into my dream and pick up some pointers. I find the waking with feelings can be a guide to what's up with me and give me clues as to if I need to actually do anything or to simply (not so simple when the feelings are challenging) allow the process to be a form of releasing old stuff. And, old stuff for me can be very confusing and very challenging.

So YES, I connect very powerfully with what you describe and how you feel. It is so difficult for me to not understand or to misunderstand what is happening for me. Both things occur with me. I send you love and good will and hope you are able to understand what's going on. I always do understand. Sometimes it just takes time. Frequently I have to remind myself that if I do not understand it is simply because I have not given myself the time and space I need to get to a new position. I guess that's why the word process was coined. It often doesn't make me feel any better though.

Thinking of you,

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

Top
#454116 - 11/17/13 09:40 AM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 592
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
I find journaling can help enormously with what you are describing. Somehow, the process of putting my thoughts down on paper slows my brain down enough and introduces an order and logic that usually reveals really important stuff for me. It also is usually an enormous release for me. I most often finish journaling feeling much, much calmer and grounded. Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

Top
#454126 - 11/17/13 11:22 AM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
wdmkr Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/09/13
Posts: 17
Loc: Toronto, ON
I have the same morning issues. I drive about 45min to work and usually beat myself up the whole way. On the weekends I have to get up and do some thing or I get even worse. The fast heart beat, trying to catch my breath and real sadness is brutal. This morning was waking up from bad dreams and not being able to push them away. It felt like they where hanging on for a while.

I find going to the gym helps but not a lot else so far.

Top
#454134 - 11/17/13 01:11 PM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
toddop Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 214
Loc: California
Hey SayIt Right,

I do the exact same thing. I have woken up almost every night for the past year at the exact time period (from 3:00am-4:30am). Sometimes I am able to go back to sleep sometimes I can't.

I wake up in a variety of states too. I usually will wake up from a nightmare in a state of panic, with palpitations, and restless legs. Sometimes after the nightmare, I will be flooded with flashbacks of my abuse. This is how I have recovered most of my recent memories. Other times I will wake up in a state of paralysis. It is like my whole body is frozen in a fetal position and I cannot move. This lasts about 20-30 minutes, after which I can finally move again.

For me, I have learned that this sleep behavior is the only way my mind can release the things that happened to me. I have so many defenses in my waking mind built up over the years. I think coming through my dream state is the only way some of this stuff can come out. I now know when it happens, that this is how I felt as a child during the abuse. Frozen in fear, unable to respond, terrified, but unable to show it. I now know it is the kid in me that is reaching out to me, showing me what happened.

I have found that I have to get up after these episodes. I have to first consciously tell myself that I am safe, that nobody is trying to hurt me. I hug my pillow like it is me as a child. Then, if I am still shaken up, I walk into another room and turn on the light and play with my cats for a minute.

After that, I will get back into bed, and do my breathing exercises and tell myself that it is okay to get some more sleep. Sometimes I will go back to sleep. If I haven't slept in 20-30 minutes, I get up and start my day.

Don't know if that helps to hear or not. I think it is a good thing if you are getting some feelings from what is happening, even if it is sadness. I have developed a lot of sympathy for myself as a boy, and quite a bit of sadness, from the experiences as described above. I think any time you can get into a feeling state, versus numbness and detachment, that is a sign of progress.

Thanks for posting about this and good luck with your sleep.
_________________________
Todd

"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
-Albert Einstein

Top
#454147 - 11/17/13 03:48 PM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3320
Loc: back in the USA
Originally Posted By: SayItRight
... sometimes, like today, it's just a thing, but nothing I remember, but I wake up from it different ways on different days: heart-pounding, fear reaction, angry, exahusted, sad.
yeah - almost like a habit of feeling bad that you can't break. they say our bodies can get addicted to adrenaline - when we are under stress too often - and still feel the stress symptoms even when the reason for them is removed.

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
It seems so far removed from anything going on in my life right now. What's worse is that good days, or good things, seem to bring it on as much (or maybe even more) as bad or stressful days.
Yup - i used to get that, too. like - if i am in the middle of bad stuff - i know how to do it - maybe not the right way - but familiar. but if no crisis is going on - i don't know how to take it and i start anticipating the next one - certain that the peace can't last and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
One thing I will say about it that is different today: today, I feel bad for myself about it. Today, I feel like: "man, maybe I really do need some professional help to work on some things." (I mean, I re-started therapy, but I still need to make the case for it to myself over and over).
that - my friend - is called PROGRESS! yes - you do deserve to get better - so go for it!

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
Today, I feel sad for myself - but in a good way - similar to something that happened not too long ago; maybe I'm suspending some kind of usually intense internal hatred. ...
another GOOD sign - self-care. keep it up and make that a habit.

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
.... Saying something like this in the environment I grew up in would do nothing other than guarantee me a worse disaster. ...
i so get that - and we have to learn to re-parent ourselves to get past those early wrong programming thoughts and feelings.

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
Writing just the little that I wrote just above triggers some pretty severe backlash in me, but fuck it, I wrote it, it's staying.
GOOD FOR YOU! do you realize how far you have come since your first post???!!!

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
... also feeling like I want a connection.
you got it, man - see all the responses above!!!

LEE
_________________________
We are often troubled, but not crushed;
sometimes in doubt, but never in despair;
there are many enemies, but we are never without a friend;
and though badly hurt at times, we are not destroyed.
- Paul, II Cor 4:8-9

Top
#454182 - 11/17/13 09:49 PM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
SayItRight Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 63
Guys:

All of this feedback is awesome. Going to read through it more tonight and tomorrow in order to really benefit. For now, just really wanted to say thanks.

SayIt.
_________________________



Top
#454186 - 11/17/13 10:44 PM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: SayItRight]
ThisMan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/13
Posts: 767
Loc: upper south
SayIt,

It sounds like you are getting in touch with the real you. It is at once exciting and daunting and if you want a "connection", then you will have your connection! I am like everyone else… I am excited for you. Just like you, when I began to deal with the abuses, I missed untold hours of sleep because the mind and the heart were SO BUSY trying to sync everything that was haunting me from the past. But it gets better. In less than a year, I have…….. well. I won't take you there, but it does get better.

Hope you find some rest. A trick you may try is telling the negatives in your head that you want to get up, make the coffee early and read while you wait for the sun to rise. It's an easy way to gain control of the situation… and steal a short nap as often as you can.

… and great username… SayItRight… SIR…!!! I like that.
_________________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.



Top
#454194 - 11/18/13 12:19 AM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: traveler]
SayItRight Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 63
Don:
Originally Posted By: don64

I frequently have feelings like you are describing. I wake up from dreams that sometimes make sense and sometimes don't make sense. For me, it seems that my subconscious is always processing everything.... I can sometimes move back into my dream and pick up some pointers. I find the waking with feelings can be a guide to what's up with me and give me clues as to if I need to actually do anything or to simply (not so simple when the feelings are challenging) allow the process to be a form of releasing old stuff.... Don

Don, thanks for your thoughts and for sending me a lot of good wishes. I do have some dreams, and some I think are instructive but what's difficult for me are the nightmares or, like this morning, no nightmare I remember but aftereffects as though I've had a nightmare; not usually something I hope to move back into, instead, it's like waking up into sheer panic. I do hope it's a release of old stuff though and, as you mention in your response, I am looking forward to understanding what it all is, even if only eventually.

As for journaling, I appreciate the suggestion. I appreciate the many deep and creative ways you approach your healing and your willingness to reach out. Thanks.

Wdmkr:
Originally Posted By: wdmkr
I have the same morning issues. I drive about 45min to work and usually beat myself up the whole way. On the weekends I have to get up and do some thing or I get even worse. The fast heart beat, trying to catch my breath and real sadness is brutal. This morning was waking up from bad dreams and not being able to push them away. It felt like they where hanging on for a while.

I find going to the gym helps but not a lot else so far.
Sorry to hear it and, yes, the weekends can be worse for some reason. What goes on for you in the mornings sounds very similar.

I started working out again in the morning last week, so I find your suggestion not only timely but encouraging. One of the biggest reasons I got so much more serious about my health last year, working out, eating right, was precisely because I thought it might help me sleep better. I hope so and I hope the help you find from going to the gym continues to bring and brings even more real relief. Glad to hear it's helping in any way.

It's been about five months without work outs because, it was about five months ago that things started getting especially difficult (again). It felt good to start again.

Todd:
Originally Posted By: toddop
Hey SayIt Right,

I do the exact same thing.... I wake up in a variety of states too. I usually will wake up from a nightmare in a state of panic, with palpitations, and restless legs. Sometimes after the nightmare, I will be flooded with flashbacks of my abuse. This is how I have recovered most of my recent memories....

For me, I have learned that this sleep behavior is the only way my mind can release the things that happened to me. I have so many defenses in my waking mind built up over the years. I think coming through my dream state is the only way some of this stuff can come out....

I have found that I have to get up after these episodes. I have to first consciously tell myself that I am safe, that nobody is trying to hurt me.... Then, if I am still shaken up, I walk into another room...

After that, I will get back into bed, and do my breathing exercises and tell myself that it is okay to get some more sleep. Sometimes I will go back to sleep. If I haven't slept in 20-30 minutes, I get up and start my day.

Don't know if that helps to hear or not. I think it is a good thing if you are getting some feelings from what is happening, even if it is sadness. I have developed a lot of sympathy for myself as a boy, and quite a bit of sadness, from the experiences as described above. I think any time you can get into a feeling state, versus numbness and detachment, that is a sign of progress.


Man, even re-reading it just to cut and paste here gets to me. A lot in common with it, it does help to hear, as with wdmkr's description.

First, in terms of flashbacks, etc.: that has been the toughest part. After a particularly severe nightmare about five months back, it wasn't so much a recovered memory as much as it was a realization - because of a flooding of very specific memories of something I usually consciously put out of my mind, something I specifically told a counselor I would never talk about - that I need to get serious about addressing that serious set of abuse situations I never wanted to talk about (I had talked about some others in therapy before).

Then, a few weeks back, same thing: a flood of memories of other stuff I simply hadn't thought about in a long time/hated/never wanted to talk about.

Later on that same day, though, the second time, it was more like a flashback: where I used to be standing most of the time, sights, sounds, smells; like I was there and, worse, tons of feelings after that.

Very helpful to hear someone experiences that same dynamic.

Second: the dreams at night vs. defenses during the day is a helpful construction. I have to take a bigger look at the idea.

Three: yeah, there were a couple of times a couple of months back that I had to work real hard to tell myself that I was safe, convince myself what I had dreamed had been just a dream, pace, walk around, grab a hold of solid shit in the house, stare at my reflection, breathe. Took forever sometimes. The panic after waking hasn't been that extreme in some time but I am tired of this "regular" of still waking up in such a panic-like state. When it's after a nightmare, at least I can say: "My body is in panic mode because of a nightmare." I hate those times, like today, when I don't remember a dream but... must have? had one because I wake up in the same type of panic mode, or super angry mode, or deeply sad mode, i.e. I wake up into or out of some intense process that is going on without me: I just have to immediately deal with the full-fledged onslaught.

Breathing definitely makes a huge difference.

The sympathy thing has been good. To be honest, I have trouble sympathizing with the "boy" (a younger version of me, etc.) but I know from reading here and in books that many find it extremely helpful. Maybe that will change, maybe it doesn't need to, I don't know. I am encouraged however that I at least have started having some sympathy for myself at all. It is a new development and a very welcome one.

This last thing though: "any time you can get into a feeling state, versus numbness and detachment, that is a sign of progress," man, that hits the nail on the head. I feel like I understood the word detachment in a new way. I was always calling it "denial" and I know I've had a lot of denial in the past, but the word "detachment" provides a more nuanced perspective on something I've seen lately:

I finally saw this past week, more than once, where, because some of the ptsd stuff that was going on for the past few months lessened, I really wanted to just push everything down/away again. Never saw it as "detachment" before: detaching from my real feelings.

I think I never viewed myself as 'detached' before because even when I was living completely fake-ly, i.e. as though I had no abuse issues to deal with whatsoever, I did have other feelings: there were movies I liked, stuff I enjoyed doing, etc. so I thought: "I'm not a detached person."

Now I see, and can agree, I was detached, but more importantly: the feelings are better, even the real ones, even the ones about my abuse, etc.

I don't even care so much that what I feel is sadness - maybe that's not even the right word: what I feel is sobered, serious. I feel like I deserve to take myself and my past seriously. That, I can tell you, has never really been the case before. Not to mention the fact that your statement re feelings being superior/preferrable/more healing than numbness or detachment: it's just good sense, but sense I was completely missing.

All of you guys taking me seriously, by the way, really helps me in this new approach of no longer denying or detaching from the truth of my history.

So, yeah man, it helps to hear.

Lee:
Originally Posted By: traveler
...they say our bodies can get addicted to adrenaline - when we are under stress too often - and still feel the stress symptoms even when the reason for them is removed.

...if no crisis is going on - i don't know how to take it and i start anticipating the next one

...that - my friend - is called PROGRESS! yes - you do deserve to get better - so go for it!

...another GOOD sign - self-care. keep it up and make that a habit.

...we have to learn to re-parent ourselves to get past those early wrong programming thoughts and feelings.

...GOOD FOR YOU! do you realize how far you have come since your first post???!!!

Originally Posted By: SayItRight
... also feeling like I want a connection.
you got it, man - see all the responses above!!!

LEE


First of all, Lee, you are 100% encouragement, and constantly so. I think I mentioned this once before when you responded to a post of mine: you manage to do it/say it/be encouraging in a way that gets past the defenses I usually have against such things. So, thanks.

Second, yeah, I think there is an adrenaline component. I believe, and I think I read this in a recent post here on MS, that aspects of past trauma can stay in our bodies and require release, part of why wdmkr's working out recommendation is good and re-affirming etc, I believe all that to be true.

When things started flaring up again for me how ever many months back, I assumed it was merely some stuff sort of releasing itself through some bad dreams, would be over soon, etc. In other words, only mechanics and was maybe even just my body blowing off trauma (like a person blows off steam).

When it turned out to involve *content* to: memories, and not just some kind of mechanics, I was bummed. I also knew, though, to tell you the truth, that it was bound to happen, in one sense: how did I think I could avoid that stuff (the stuff I would not talk about vs the stuff I would) without any repurcussion? I'm like the guy in some movie about an old crime and the crime finally gets solve and when the cops finally come to arrest that guy, he says: "I've had a good run." I've had a good run (not really) with living in the denial of a few situations, but reality or the truth has finally caught up with me.

The "parenting" or "parenting-self" thing: third time it's come up this week. I used to hate the word, but if that's what it's called... I mean, fine: we can call it parenting. Semi-joking here, about the word, but about what you're describing, not. Without getting too hung up on the terminology (not because you used wrong terminology but because I'm *sensitve* to some of the terminology: family, parenting, etc.) I'd have to say, yes: trading in those old patterns for new ones is good. I find it tough in the moment, excruciating, actually, which ties into this last thing:

Last: the connection. As I wrote in my post - backlash. To be so upfront in admitting the plain fact that I need connection and then, afterward or in response, be met with you guys all reaching out and offering it, as Lee pointed out, it is something so new and so good that I lack the ability to adequately describe it. It helps with the otherwise debilitating backlash I typically face for doing that.

Not all of this may be clear - I'm pretty tired, but I really wanted to reply while I had the time.

Thank you guys.
_________________________



Top
#454961 - 11/24/13 09:02 PM Re: The Mornings Are Sometimes So Rough [Re: ThisMan]
SayItRight Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 63
Originally Posted By: ThisMan
SayIt,

It sounds like you are getting in touch with the real you. It is at once exciting and daunting and if you want a "connection", then you will have your connection! I am like everyone else… I am excited for you. Just like you, when I began to deal with the abuses, I missed untold hours of sleep because the mind and the heart were SO BUSY trying to sync everything that was haunting me from the past. But it gets better. In less than a year, I have…….. well. I won't take you there, but it does get better.

Hope you find some rest. A trick you may try is telling the negatives in your head that you want to get up, make the coffee early and read while you wait for the sun to rise. It's an easy way to gain control of the situation… and steal a short nap as often as you can.

… and great username… SayItRight… SIR…!!! I like that.



ThisMan:

Somehow I missed your response until just now (I tend to read and re-read things a couple of times over. And glad I do).

You know, it seems that this "getting in touch" with the real me is truly a part of what is going on lately. The waking up and the nightmares and etc. is getting in touch one way, I suppose, and I agree with Todd that the nightmares may be the only way for some of these things to come out right now, but there have been other developments as well:

In addition to the two incidents of "compassion" for myself (I don't know what to call it) that I mentioned above, I had two days of intense pain last week, hard to describe, but, in the past, issues I dismissed as simply "anger," and, worse, as anger that was my fault for "letting stupid shit get to me."

I would always dismiss it, judge myself, etc. At best, I figured the problem was that I and only I was responsible for me being mis-treated or whatever you want to call it (the issue here was some very bad work situations): I had built my life in some fucked up way and I had nobody to blame but myself.

Last week, however, on the second day, it got so bad that I called my clinic's phone number. I don't know why, but I felt like I didn't want to just dismiss this kind of thing anymore, didn't want to just "soldier through" like I usually do.

I had an amazing conversation with the person on the phone. There are plenty of details to share, but my point is this: they said the same thing: that I was feeling so much because I was finally allowing myself to feel and I was taking my feelings seriously. In the context of that discussion, and the insights the person I spoke with had, that read seemed very accurate. Plus, it accorded with the two incidents I had where I actually felt genuine concern for myself. So, I agreed with the basic concepts of what was so helpfully said then. Little by little, I've been trying to work this new awareness into my typical outook, etc.

In any case, in a similar way, it helps me to read what it is you said above. Because I've been in therapy in the past, I've had this issue with linking things in my mind, but in the past that's been the case only with stories, facts, confirming things I had long suspected, etc.

These last two weeks is the first time I'm connecting in that way with my feelings as opposed to my knowledge. I find it can be a little disorienting especially since some of the feelings are intensely negative (but at least they are true and mine).

For these reasons I'm grateful to see your response just now. It still goes a little up and down for me; some periods of even a given day are fine, others are just horrible. I get tired, and I get frustrated. I checked in tonight because some vague sense of whatever started coming at me again which in me leads even to a lot of physical symptoms: lately I have hives like I've never had them before (and I've pretty much always had them).

I logged in and scrolled through some of my old posts and saw only now what you wrote: the timing was good, the message (what you wrote) even better. As were everybody's that I re-read as well.

I appreciate the support and the way everyone is so open. All of this kind of interaction is specifically the kind of thing I never did before, even though I've been in therapy. I always just blazed through, viewed therapy as something I had to get through quickly, hated it, etc. This time I'm trying to do all that differently, including by being more open with and to you guys here on MS.

Whatever, I'll stop rambling. What I am trying to say is thanks.
_________________________



Top


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.