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#453916 - 11/15/13 11:33 PM durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
My father all but broke my heart last week.

We were having a nice family dinner and talking about completely meaningless stuff. Dad brought up that he wants to sell some of his old rare books--

"But I want it to actually pay off, I don't want some guy who'll rape me."

Cold inside. Silent. Mom noticed me suddenly looking sad - I mumbled something about being tired.


My father is the closest thing I have to a hero. He has always been on my side, 100% supportive even before I disclosed and about 200% supportive since. He didn't mean to hurt me, I know that. I wanted to take him aside and ask him to be more careful, but then I knew that would make him feel bad and I didn't want to do that. I've been doing better recently, I know they've noticed, and I don't want them to think I'm any more fragile than they absolutely have to. I want them to see me as better, as okay.

But still....

He knows I was raped. I used the r-word to my sister, who then must have told mom because mom has used it since. So Dad KNOWS. He also knows it occurred inside my elementary school - and he still speaks of that place with pride, still happy I went there.

I want him to get what's different now. That even if I'm getting more stable I still don't want to hear trivializing shit like that. I need him to do better. But I don't want him to feel bad, like he hasn't gone to bat for me enough times when he totally has. I am so lucky to have a good dad. Here of all places I am acutely aware of how lucky I am.

But it still hurts. Rape metaphors and being so thrilled I was privileged enough to get into the scene of the crime. It's sad and it hurts.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#453918 - 11/16/13 12:12 AM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 734
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Matt,

I am so sorry that you are hurting right now. At 64, my take on most things in my life is that it is ME who needs to change. I am not usually able to change the world around me, but I am able to change ME in the world around me.

If that is really true, then there are two things that come to mind in your situation. First, that this is an opportunity for you to process your trauma at a deeper level. You have already begun that in your post, but don't underestimate the depth of your feelings--the rage, hopelessness, helplessness that may be lodged there. Your father may not be able to handle the depth of those feelings. That is not a bad thing, it may just be a true thing. You have already demonstrated that he is not able to think on his feet and be as sensitive to you as you need concerning a very traumatic life event. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you, it may just be a part of who he is. If you need for him to be their for you in ways that he is not able, it will be an unsatisfying experience for you both. So it is possible that in this circumstance, your dad is just the messenger-the messenger that is saying your insides are needing, perhaps requiring a deeper exploration of your trauma. My experience at 64 is this is an ongoing process, a peeling away the layers of an onion that certainly hasn't stopped for me yet. But, if this is true, then YOU need to get the level of support you need--here, therapy,etc.

Regarding your dad, once you figure out what YOU need, you may be able to figure out if it is reasonable to expect your father to be able to give it to you. I hope I'm not sounding insensitive here, that is the opposite of how I feel. I just would not want for you to seek a level of help at a place that may not have it for you. Only you can figure that out.


If I am off base, please disregard. I am sending you the warmth and support I have over the air.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#453919 - 11/16/13 12:18 AM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
I know what you mean. As much as he cares, he'll never truly get it. You want him to get it, he wants to get it, but he'll never really get it.

I feel what you're saying. I'm so glad to hear you have a good dad. Mine wasn't, and isn't.

In my family, I kind of thought my family would be taking the recovery journey with me or something. I talked, I showed them books I was reading, I'd be in tears, call my mom, and she'd talk about the weather. All fluff. That hurt,too. It was like, how can you talk about fluff when my entire world has been completely destroyed and thrown in my face? My therapist finally asked something like, "Why do you think your parents are now capable of being something they were totally incapable of being before?" It made me stop and think. Maybe I lowered my expectations. I remember my therapist saying, "It's not your job to change them."

It also reminds me of the time when my best friend's mother suddenly died of a heart attack. It was total shock. He and I spent a lot of time together as he sat quietly in pain. That was tough. Then I went somewhere and a nice older lady I knew was joking with someone else, "I'm gonna' kill you!" They laughed, but my heart just sank. Something people joked about wasn't a joke to me anymore.

Although I can't imagine ever joking about rape. The look on your face may have already tought him the lesson he needed.

Hang in there, my friend.
_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

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#454006 - 11/16/13 01:37 PM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
BraveFalcon Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: The ATL

Hi Matt. I'm sorry your father isn't as supportive or understanding about these things as you would like him to be. I know how much it can hurt when a parent isn't sensitive to your issues, even though they know you have those issues. I've been through it myself, believe me. You may remember my post from several months ago when I was on vacation and my mom took a veiled jab at my CSA issues by questioning out-loud whether some of my childhood memories were reliable. I don't think she meant to do it, but her comment hurt me deeply and, at the time, really sent me over the edge.

I think sometimes parents choose to forget about our issues, because to accept that you have those issues to the point where they need to be sensitive about it requires them fully accept and understand how badly you were harmed, and that hurts to much for them to accept. I think that's pretty much the case with my own parents. So, when one of them says something that triggers me in some way, I try to just breath, let it roll off, let the feelings pass, and understand that they love me and didn't meant to say something that fucked my head all up. It's not always easy to do but it does help me in forgiving them when they upset me in that way. It's like as soon as the hurtful, dismissive or invalidating words come out of their mouths, I immediately go into the process of forgiving them.

Oh, and I have to confess I've used the "r word" flippantly myself before. I understand why I shouldn't but it's easy to forget that you may be around someone whom your words are hurting. Although, I can definitely say that I would never have used that word flippantly if I knew I was in the company of someone who'd been raped. Either way, it's not an ok word to use lightly and I know why I was wrong for using it that way. I will try not to do so again in the future. Peace,

Ken

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#454137 - 11/17/13 02:44 PM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3362
Loc: O Kanada
whenever i get frustrated that certain people don't understand CSA, or even give it much thought,
i have to remind myself that is only because they have had no direct experience with it, and they have never had to witness it first hand.

that is a good thing.

all they have to go by is my behaviour, which i myself can barely understand or control sometimes, plus whatever words i have chosen or tried to convey through the imperfect channels of language.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#454179 - 11/17/13 08:08 PM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
Suwanee Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/30/12
Posts: 736
Loc: Southeast USA
Matt,

In your time on MS you have indicated the deep respect you hold for your father. Your words also indicate the respect is mutual. Naturally, your father's unfortunate choice of words will sting in this situation. In all likelihood, he just reached for the low shelf when making that choice. Yes, ideally that word would have been held for careful use in the proper context. Realistically, your father isn't perfect-none of us are. He probably still has difficulty thinking that happened to his own son. It may still be somewhat of an abstraction. After all, that happens to others.

I know it's painful to hear. I've experienced something similar to that--and worried that everyone thinks I'm a powder keg ready to explode when the misspoken word is uttered. Even if your dad didn't realize it immediately, I'm certain your mother found a tactful way to remind him later on. As you have reminded me in dealing with my own situation, they are still in your corner. Both of them.

Will
_________________________
Cruel Summer
My Journal

-Signs and traces left in stone
Ruins of a past unknown-

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#454537 - 11/20/13 08:28 AM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
Thank you, guys, all of you.

I felt bad even writing this post, and complaining to T about this - it made me feel ungrateful in a way.

For a man of his age he has made many changes in recent years - he has completely swapped all of his political opinions and went from a routine cursing homophobe to strong supporter of gay equality and marriage. He completely "gets" me.... he just doesn't completely "get" what I'm going through. And as VV said, it's for the best that he doesn't - that he can't. He's doing the best he can and is "allowed" to forget a detail or not completely rewrite his life around it.

You love people for who and what they are - and not for what they're not. And I do love him and have no doubt he loves me.

The age difference between us is exactly the same as that between me and my son - my identical genetic clone to the point where people stop on the street to stare at us like it's some sort of prank. It isn't showing any disrespect towards my dad that I've already replaced some of his approaches towards young me with different methods for my son that I know would have worked better and that ARE working better. All we can ask of a parent is their best (though make no mistake, we shouldn't have to ask since they owe it). I do have to believe I'll be more responsive and emotionally adaptable towards my kids as they grow, and aim at working harder to wrap their strongest emotional needs into my daily life.



Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#454539 - 11/20/13 08:50 AM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 734
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi Matt,

I think making lemonade out of lemons, taking the experience and figuring out how you can be responsive and sensitive to your own children is so beautiful. What a gift this event is to them.
I'm sorry that you have to hurt, though.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#457565 - 12/29/13 01:05 AM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
He did it again tonight. My wife and I made a huge dinner, we were hosting like 14 relatives for a big year-end thing and had worked on it all day.

And during dinner, two seats away from me, my dad chortled something to my uncle about somebody being "raped" by high prices. It just gutpunched me and left me in dismay throughout the rest of what should have been a triumphant night.

No one else noticed or cared, not my mom or my sister or my wife, all of whom know too. And what am I supposed to do, not be hurt? Not be humiliated? Not think that I have a right to be treated better by my family in my own home where I am the head of the household? Aren't families supposed to support each other?

I pulled Dad aside in private at the end of the night. I was flustered but trying to remain composure. Basically here's how it went:

Me: "I don't know exactly what I'm about to say because I've never had to say it to you before and there's nobody whose opinion I value more than yours. I would just ask that you be more conscientious of whether you're about to bring the word "rape" into a conversation, especially if it's just as a figure of speech, and if you could really try to avoid doing it."

Dad: "....did I do that?"

Me: "Yes, you did that tonight; it was the second time in two months."

Dad: "I'm sorry. I really didn't realize I was doing it, but I'll make sure it doesn't happen again."

And we hugged, and that was basically it. Rest of the night normal. Everyone seemed to love dinner.


I feel like shit. An utterly ungrateful shit. I made my dad feel bad about himself, after he's been an unfailingly supportive and reassuring anchor to me as I try to deal with all this. Now he'll think that he hurt me and let me down - which he DID, even by accident, and it feels bad to think of him feeling that way so, lucky me, I get the double-whammy. It feels like I had to correct him, just because he means so much to me that when he stumbles it really shocks and hurts me. Things just had to change, it was 2 times in 2 months at my own dinner table and from him of all people it hurt really bad when he screwed up. I honestly think this is the first time I've ever corrected him on anything.

Wish I could say I felt like this was progress but it just felt like I was choosing one way to feel bad and self-conscious over another. If it keeps him from saying as much in the future, I guess I'll feel better when I know I won't have to worry about the next time.


Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#457567 - 12/29/13 03:39 AM Re: durr durr durr RAPE LOL durr [Re: SoccerStar]
Bluedogone Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/03/13
Posts: 241
Loc: Southeast US
Matt,

I'm SO sorry you had to re-visit this post.

Especially when this time of family get together and celebration should be full of positive reinforcement, not a time that would make you feel that family has no concept of what the word can do to your well being and peace of mind.

My father was never particularly supportive so I can only imagine how shitty having to do this must have been. But you definitely did the right thing to stop him from using the word now rather than hear it again, and maybe again, in the future. And re-open the old wounds. I guess it was a sort of lesser of two evils thing, but I think you dealt with it exactly right. And his response was exactly right. But that still doesn't make it easy to correct a parent (even one who hasn't been too supportive, but, for sure, a parent who has always been there and done do much for you).

This may not even apply, but for some reason it reminds me of years ago when it was necessary to correct one of my sons when they were doing something that could be dangerous or harmful. It was very necessary, while at the same time I felt terrible to do it and I usually said, "this is going to hurt me more than you." I doubt if they really believed that at the time but the end result worked out.

It sounds as if your father will now be much more sensitive to the words he chooses, and here's to more "triggering-free" family gatherings.
_________________________
Never, never, never, never give up....Winston Churchill

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