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#454157 - 11/17/13 04:20 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 915
Loc: New York
This is such a painful topic even in circumstances where there wasn't a context of abuse. Ok - one partner isn't in the mood to have sex. Well the other partner isn't in the mood to go without! Why does only one mood matter? Likewise, isn't it just as much a "chore" to go through another week without it? If sex is just a chore, then it could be viewed as being as necessary as any other chore like taking out the garbage or doing the laundry - it has to get done! And if sex isn't a chore, if it's this wonderful special soul-uplifting thing, then one partner is denying it to the other when it supposedly means that much.

I'm sorry, I probably come off as a fratboy stereotype or something here but this IS a fundamental element of relationships - it's one of the chief reasons why we even have the words "girlfriend" and "wife" when there was already a perfectly good word out there also to describe such a person who doesn't validate your emotional needs: "roommate." I personally view the withholding of sex to being a form of infidelity - a violation of the marriage vows.

If both partners knew of each other's needs before marriage and then one of them keeps meeting all of the other's, it is unfair for the other partner to unilaterally remove things from a relationship that used to be there. That goes for sex itself, sexual favors, positions, what-have-you. It takes work to keep a good relationship going and each partner needs to prioritize the other. The ultimate question must be: "If there is anything within my power that my spouse needs from me, that we've already done anyway and doesn't hurt, am I doing it?" The answer should pretty much always be yes. Otherwise you're left with one partner feeling like they're carrying more of the responsibilities for keeping the relationship going, as they continue with all their previous behaviors towards their partner but receive a pared-down, unserious, lazy knockoff version instead.


As you may be able to tell this issue is very much a sore point for me. When my wife and I started dating our libidos were equally ultra-high. Then she changed and I didn't. Because of a rough pregnancy I went 14 months with utterly no physical intimacy whatsoever - not even a helping hand on my birthday (which she forgot). Not sure how someone can play on a Blackberry but not be able to give a hj. It was without a doubt worse for her, but the fact is that I could have delt with the other 6-8 major crises hitting me in 2012 and NOT had my breakdown and NOT ended up here if only that could have stayed normal or at least some occasional pretense of normal. Meanwhile, the kid is now nearly 2 and my wife is still changed. And yeah, she hit me with that "I enjoy it but don't need it" BS too. No small amount of my time in therapy is devoted to trying to re-center my reactions to her when I remember how bad things were.



Matt
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

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#454158 - 11/17/13 04:23 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
Jude Offline


Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1481
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Harvey Dent
I need sex more than my wife wants sex. This is causing some serious issues in our relationship, as the lack of sex makes me feel unwanted and unloved. And my need makes her feel like she isn't good enough (which makes no sense to me), and sex is just a chore that she has to do.

Hey Harvey,

In one sense this situation is as common as fleas on a dog. Nothing to do with CSA. Couples that stick with it eventually reach an equilibrium that is acceptable to both. And if that means MB sometimes to relieve the pressure, well... thats what morning showers are for.

For me the "lack of sex makes me feel unwanted and unloved" piece is what I think was the CSA related issue that I've had to deal with. That sex=love equation is not sustainable in any relationship. I've worked hard to decouple the two and learn to accept other expressions of love as being good enough. At the same time, I've learned that my strong appetite for sex was one way that I asserted my fragile manhood, and the "high" of an orgasm was like a drug that helped keep me numb to the pain that I kept secret for so many years.

For me the solution was not getting her to give me more sex. It was to look at what was driving my need to get my rocks off, above all else. Maybe I'm a little older than you, and the fires of my youth have mellowed. But I am at a place where I can say, I've had lots of sex in my life, but never really felt loved or accepted, and never loved anyone unconditionally. I am willing to let go of the former, in order to experience some of the latter.

Don't think I'm unsympathetic Harvey.......I know the feeling of being starved for it. But its a rare marriage where differing sex drives don't cause some friction. Love her through it.

Jude
_________________________
"But now old friends are acting strange,
they shake their heads, they say I've changed.
Something's lost but something's gained in living every day
....it's life's illusions I recall, I really don't know life at all. "
Joni Mitchell

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#454159 - 11/17/13 04:28 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3044
Loc: O Kanada
i have found it is important to keep separate what are "normal" relationship issues from what is actually CSA baggage.

the difficulty and confusion is understandable because as a CSA survivor, that memory is always intruding into my "normal" problems and complicating them.
it is a black hole in my soul that sucks at everything.

conflicting marital libidos and porn addiction are fairly universal relationship issues.

i usually can't do this sorting by myself.
it takes professional advice from a relationship counsellor.
then i cross reference that with a CSA expert.

otherwise i wander and stumble in the dark corridors of my damaged sexuality.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#454163 - 11/17/13 04:39 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Jude]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3044
Loc: O Kanada
JUDE.
i agree with this post 100%.
i am 52 and married 22 years.
you summed it up perfectly.

MR.DENT.
i urge you to read JUDE's post again.
very good information.

Originally Posted By: Jude
In one sense this situation is as common as fleas on a dog. Nothing to do with CSA. Couples that stick with it eventually reach an equilibrium that is acceptable to both. And if that means MB sometimes to relieve the pressure, well... thats what morning showers are for.

For me the "lack of sex makes me feel unwanted and unloved" piece is what I think was the CSA related issue that I've had to deal with. That sex=love equation is not sustainable in any relationship. I've worked hard to decouple the two and learn to accept other expressions of love as being good enough. At the same time, I've learned that my strong appetite for sex was one way that I asserted my fragile manhood, and the "high" of an orgasm was like a drug that helped keep me numb to the pain that I kept secret for so many years.

For me the solution was not getting her to give me more sex. It was to look at what was driving my need to get my rocks off, above all else. Maybe I'm a little older than you, and the fires of my youth have mellowed. But I am at a place where I can say, I've had lots of sex in my life, but never really felt loved or accepted, and never loved anyone unconditionally. I am willing to let go of the former, in order to experience some of the latter.

Don't think I'm unsympathetic Harvey.......I know the feeling of being starved for it. But its a rare marriage where differing sex drives don't cause some friction. Love her through it.

Jude
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#454167 - 11/17/13 05:51 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
Harvey Dent Offline


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 28
I am having a great deal of trouble writing about this, so please forgive my wording.

I was aware of the potential for this to be an issue in any relationship. As I said previously, I have read at least four books on this issue. My issue isn't, how do I convince my wife to have sex with me. For me the issue is "How do I deal with the feelings of rejection and subsequent rage, depression, and isolation?"

Originally this was posted in the survivors of female abuse forum, because to me this is as much about my inability to engage emotionally without sex as it is about sexual frustration.

I love my wife. I want to stop hurting her by demanding too much of her. Or am I getting this twisted? How do I talk to her about this with her? And why doesn't she understand what I am talking about?


Sorry if I am rambling. I am overwrought.
_________________________
I am not defined by what is done to me. I am defined by the choices I make.

My story: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=452346#Post452346

Odds are that I am typing on my phone. Please excuse punctuation and spelling. Editing is a serious pain in the neck.

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#454172 - 11/17/13 07:07 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
gettingstronger Offline


Registered: 09/24/13
Posts: 148
Loc: Virginia
Hi Harvey,

My wife and I experienced this exact situation from the time we got married (almost 20 years ago) until only a few weeks ago when I finally started addressing the csa in earnest. Our situations were reversed-- she wanted sex regularly and I did whatever I had to do to avoid it. I know what you're up against.

You mentioned that your wife had a good sex drive (3-4 times per week) until a miscarriage happened. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss! Like me vis--vis my wife, I sincerely doubt that her actions toward you that are causing the rejection and frustration have a single thing to do with you.

My thought is, can the miscarriage be causing her to withdraw, even in an indirect way? I know its impact on couples is devastating, but on women who go through it, it's absolutely terrible. Sex may be bringing back memories and fears similar to what we csa survivors are all too well aware of.

Finally, have you noticed depression or other mood changes with her since this happened? If so, has she seen a therapist?

In the meantime, take it on faith what I've told my wife on the day I disclosed my secret to her: IT'S NOT A REJECTION OF YOU. Something's happening inside her that's unrelated to you. At least that's what I honestly believe. Since she may not even be able to communicate any of this effectively, don't be surprised that you're at an impasse.

This is just my two cents. Take care.

Bob

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#454180 - 11/17/13 08:08 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
Harvey Dent Offline


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 28
http://www.oprah.com/spirit/Martha-Beck-Impotent-Rage

This offered a concise explanation of what I was feeling. I must address the sense of powerlessness I am feeling, and must recognize that my needs are important. Furthermore, I need to deal with my inability to make a claim about my needs. My wife and I had spoken about my issue, but I assumed that since she was having her own issues, it meant that I could and should NOT express my needs.

This led to a barely controlled rage that I have faced all day.



Thank you, everyone, for reading, responding, and offering me your truth.

Though I have never met you, I consider you all my brothers. And with deep wells of emotion I want you to know that I love you, individually and collectively. Your strength inspires me and your wisdom aids me.
_________________________
I am not defined by what is done to me. I am defined by the choices I make.

My story: http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=452346#Post452346

Odds are that I am typing on my phone. Please excuse punctuation and spelling. Editing is a serious pain in the neck.

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#454286 - 11/18/13 02:22 PM Re: 3rd time attempting to post: advice? [Re: Harvey Dent]
HaiRazor Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/15/13
Posts: 9
Loc: NM USA
Harvey,
I know the space your in. I too suffer from an out of control libido! Before going to WoR in Ohio last month, I could not understand why my wife of 18 years was so sexually distant, unavailable, unwilling and/or not desiring to be a part of this mystical process that God bestowed on us since our union.

At this weekend I learned that it's her ability to feel your intention and her personal space that are colliding. She is working through her own stuff that you should consider tuning in to. It's difficult, I know. I was raging and throwing guilt around like crazy when I couldn't get her to engage. I was a horrible person.

I hear you love her. Pay attention to what she is "saying" when she's saying no. Is she in a place that is scary for her to share with you? Does she know about your abuse? I don't fully know your story, nor do I need to. I just get your space. It's frustrating. Draw from your love for her to respect where she is. Find her there. Listen. Don't use what she says to "guide" her to sex. Listen, feel, empathize with her emotions. Help her see you care more for her feelings and situation than you do for sex. She will come around.

I pray for you to find compassion for your inner child. That child that needs and deserves your protection. Keep him safe. He is depending on you. Your smart enough, strong enough and you deserve to enjoy, love and protect him.

Peace my fellow traveler!
_________________________
Keep healing. It's worth the journey!

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