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#448498 - 09/27/13 10:56 PM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3397
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Originally Posted By: focusedbody
And what can come up in the present is pain, which is in many ways the true sign of that damage. However, pain can only be taken on slowly. As you may already know, it can be overwhelming.


i just heard someone quote the old cliche - "no pain, no gain!"
and i couldn't help thinking - "but just because there is pain - doesn't necessarily mean that there WILL be gain!"

the trick is to make sure that the pain counts for something - that it produces the right result - or that that it at least accompanies the growth and change that is needed. it is - as you say - a "true sign of that damage" - BUT it can also be a sign that points very emphatically and dramatically and unmistakably to an area or issue that needs work and healing. so now when the pain comes, i try to be *present* enough to ask - "what is this trying to show me or teach me or prompt me to do or think or feel or change?"

yes - the pain is still there - but it seems to help.

lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#448598 - 09/28/13 03:52 PM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 341
Loc: NY
Traveler:

My long-standing habits of denial were saying something like the opposite: "There's nothing to gain here, so let go of the pain". Eventually the pain has a way of letting you know it's not going away. Once you tell yourself you're not going to ignore it, a slow period of acquaintance begins. You think to yourself that toughing it out is going to bring the maximum benefit. But that can be another way of staying numb. It just doesn't work that way. Everyday I try to be open to learning and sometimes I need to stop and say, "okay I know enough for now. Tomorrow will come."

In any case, thanks for your support and encouraging my curiosity on the subject. I'll keep your good questions in mind so that what I am beginning to understand truly "counts for something".



Greg:

No problem. Happy to respond.

Originally Posted By: JoeSmith
One, do you have a diagnosis?


When all of this starting coming down a couple of years ago, I felt the presence of some strong conflicting forces within me. They felt like very critical voices ready to pounce on my mistakes. I was concerned that I might have Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), so I went to a clinical psychologist to get a diagnosis. After a lengthy interview process, he said that my condition was closest to an "impaired self-reference". Although I did not have DID, I did have difficulty referencing myself at any given moment.

The diagnosis has proved useful. It has helped me focus on finding ways to access my true self. It has also helped me pay attention to when I have particular difficulty doing that. I don't know if you have ever seen Woody Allen's movie, Zelig, but my condition is a little like that. When I can't reference myself, I tend to act like someone else for a while, often someone I have just been with.

Over the years, this seemed like a fairly harmless tendency, but I think that what happened was that I failed to nourish a strong enough sense of self to build the life that I truly wanted. For many years I felt pretty wishy-washy. Understanding that I was having trouble consistently getting to the "real me" helped me see that it was a chronic tendency that left me in a kind of netherworld over the long run.

The "self-referencing" problem seems particularly related to mother-son issues. When a parent fails to consistently reflect back to a child their emotions, a child's greater sense of self can have trouble developing. It's also true that fusing with Mom in moments when boundaries are being crossed will make it difficult to know oneself clearly.

Recently, I have come across a theory about traumatic experience that has also been helpful. It is called "structural dissociation". It occurs when different parts of us have no knowledge of each other. Although this occurs in Dissociative Identity Disorder, it can also happen on a different level with a similar effect. This is what it's like for me: after following one train of thought, when I try to have another I have no access to the first. Living life this way can feel confusing and be debilitating.

Originally Posted By: JoeSmith
Two, is your brother older/younger? And I don’t understand, was he abused by someone in the family/outside of the family? Did he abuse you?


My brother is older. He was sexually abused by a stranger on a train. I don't believe that he overtly abused me. I do believe in our play as children, he crossed boundaries with me around the time of the abuse that became a habit in our interactions up to this day.


Originally Posted By: JoeSmith
Was your mother “mean”, physically abusive? Emotionally abusive? Were the undertones subtle or pronounced?


My mother was like a lot of others. She could get her way by being a little mean, with threatening undertones, but she was physically abusive only once that I can remember. Yes, I became her "favorite" in some ways. In some ways this may have been because she succeeded in raising me as a man without the kind of anxiety about being masculine that my father and brother have.

Women at that time were becoming "liberated". However, I do think that women at that time may have also not understood how to handle their "liberation". For instance, instead of finding a way to take their new sense of empowerment into asking more from their husbands, they may have felt their sexuality was liberated enough that even their sons had to put up with a new found ability to dominate. Looking back, I feel like I was a kind of constant road test for my mother as she tried to find out how to express herself sexually.

Once I started heading down the road of wanting to know more about this, many emotions that had been long suppressed have come up. Horror, terror, panic to name a few. Yes, it's important to face them. Then they do not control us. For me, facing them is a process of accepting that they may be at work in ways I am still getting to know. With a kind sense of curiosity for myself, I have been able to uncover a lot of destructive dynamics that became commonplace in my upbringing.

Thanks for your support. It helps me move onward.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#453639 - 11/14/13 02:25 PM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 341
Loc: NY
Today I cried in front of the physical therapist. I couldn't tell her everything that it was about, but she got enough of the idea.

Thanks guys for sharing your struggles. As a boy I think I put on a happy face all too often. To truly shed tears about this stuff now helps put me back in touch with reality. The therapist told me of hers as well. She encouraged me to stay with the emotional pain, and not deflect it into my chronic tendonitis, etc.

I'm trying to take another step on the way of becoming not just a focused body, but a conscious feeling one.

As some of the vigilance falls, the world feels both lonely and warm. Funny to be here. And good too.

This is me, FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#453931 - 11/16/13 02:32 AM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 686
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi fb. Good to type to you again. More than twenty years ago I asked a massage therapist if he ever massaged the muscles around the anus. It was a legitimate question, and he let me know that he was trained to do the work. I don't know why I asked him, other than I was learning to trust my intuition at that time. As he began, I burst into tears, as a matter of fact I am crying now remembering the time. I cried for a long time as he worked on me. I did not know what the tears were about, but there was a knowing at some level that I was acquiring information and tools that I needed. And, I also knew at some level I was NOT ready for more information at the time.

I have been moving into my body with awareness for a long time. I am skilled at exploring feelings and information in my body, when that information is available. I have read that the only balance to power is love and compassion. Knowing that my issues relate to massive abuses of power, I have been consciously sending love and compassion to everything I encounter that is challenging for me. That has been a full time job for many, many years.

I have been talking to a guy on another site who shares many similarities with me as a result of early childhood sexual and physical abuse from both parents. He talks in terms of the original imprint and the terror surrounding the imprint. This, for him, is the original abuse. And, he talks of consciously moving back to the original imprint, feeling the terror and releasing this way of seeing himself. He describes freedom on the other side of this work.

I had never thought of bringing my focus to bear in this way, but was very intrigued and tried it. The results have been astounding for me. I have known for years that I was beaten on the head, face, ears, and body with a rolled newspaper or magazine very early--at least by walking and most likely earlier. This has been at a level of knowing, but the knowing was as if through a gauze filter--once removed. I have always known this information is important to me and represented something traumatic, but that was the extent of it.

When I went back with this focus of moving into the original event, I knew it was my father, and the trauma was at such a level of psychic assault that a piece of me vanished. The piece that vanished was the piece that was capable of telling me if I was comfortable, the piece that was able to feel MYSELF and be sensitive to MYSELF. This was not the sexual abuse, but the psychic abuse. And so, the stage was set for the next 60+ years of psychologically abusive relationships in my life. And, the only way I could sustain the relationships was to not feel.

The amazing thing that has come out of this for me is that I realize I have a powerful new tool. And, I now see that I have grown enough to hold this experience in consciousness with wisdom and understanding and integrate it. That's right, I said INTEGRATE IT! Now, I don't know the course of this process, I only started it 2 days ago. But, I do know that I have been able to short circuit an abusive process with the little church I go to. I have gotten involved in the music program twice in the last 4 years, and both times have gotten minced. Singing and playing the piano are a close second to breathing to me, but I have never been able to manifest these passions in this life because of my abuse issues--moth to flame with psychologically abusive relationships in aggressive dependent manner. All the triggers and hooks are in place in front of me, and this is the first time I have not taken the bait. I continue to be able to refuse the bait and I feel myself developing a larger perspective. It is early times, but this feels significant.

It feels good to share this with you.

I am so happy that you are feeling comfortable sharing your tears. It sounds like you have a very special PT. Sadness and warmth sounds so incredibly NATURAL to me. I find sadness to be grounding, because it is real.

I vote for CONSCIOUS FEELING FOCUSED BODY!

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#454203 - 11/18/13 02:19 AM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 406
Loc: west coast
Things that happened to us b4 age about 5 ish are not easy for anyone to remember.

Before that age events that happen are:

1. PREVERBAL, we just haven't developed the vocabulary to really put into words what happened.

2. NON CONCEPTUAL - we just haven't a clue what is happening yet our body does. Especially when it happens as a pattern our body stores the physiological ( the feeling itself of say pain, or pleasure ) way before we have the ability to understand what the hell just happened.

3. SUB PSYCHOLOGICAL - we literally don't remember what happened because our brains either avoid it, block it out, or just forget it cuz we can't really understand it enough.

My sister came home from the hospital when I was 3, thats the only memory of that year i had cuz i remember her umbilicus looked like apple seeds when you cut the core. My brain thought how bizarre, she has black apple seeds in her belly button. Thats how the young brain tries to make sense of things.

Trigger warning

I know it was very early that he made suck on his penis, i don't remember doing it for the first time, but i also don't remember NOT doing it. I know i have certain fetishes that i also think are a part of this but to be honest i am really not sure. However, i know now that i want sex to be pleasurable and although i don't understand what painted my sexual palette, I know i want to now as an adult enjoy all the colours.

I got the information from a somatic experiencing course by http://dianepooleheller.com/workshops/


[list]
[*]
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#454573 - 11/20/13 06:54 PM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 341
Loc: NY
Don:

Thanks for your encouraging words. Hope your own path to being more conscious and feeling will continue. We vote in similar ways on this!

Here's a book I found helpful to look at recently. It got me clearer about what was happening to me physically by describing the anatomy more succinctly:

"Out in the Open: The Complete Male Pelvis", by R. Louis Schultz.

Look forward to hearing you again on the subject and how it relates to your recovery.



1LifeNow:

Thanks for the link on Diane Poole Heller (and the Beckham one too).

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#454602 - 11/21/13 12:06 AM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 686
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
Hi FB,

I read the complete male pelvis 7-8 years ago and found it to be really freeing for me. I was a practicing massage therapist for 7 years. Quit about 7 years ago when I realized I needed all my time for myself and my journey wasn't about me being a massage therapist. I became a massage therapist because I needed all the tools that experience provided me just to move to the next step. Thanks so much for the recommendation.

I just felt how lucky all the medical model dentists and m.d.'s he taught physiology to were to have his energy in their experience. Imagine having a rolfer as a professor in medical school. Amazing.

Happy Trails,

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#454604 - 11/21/13 12:18 AM Re: something I might not remember [Re: focusedbody]
don64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 686
Loc: St. Croix, USVI
p.s. I'm still at the intellectual knowing stage and pre-feeling stage regarding early abuse and the most likely rape by my father at age 8. I'm also working with another site that is helping me a lot. The guy I mentioned earlier has a 14 page and running post on paternal incest. I have been unable to continue reading it because the chord of conscious brutality by his father is resonating so deeply within me. So, it has been a breakthrough for me. I now know my blocked memories were very brutal for me at a very young age. The process continues and I trust it. Also, I have also been able to move into my left hip which has been a problem for me for years. I knew mom stuck pins in me intentionally to inflict pain. When I moved into the hip with this new focus I felt absolute hatred from my mother. My hip is better, and I'll just have to play it by ear how many times I need to go there, or if it is something I will always need to do from time to time.

Don
_________________________
Divine Law is not judgment or denial of self truths. Divine Law is honoring harmony that comes from a peaceful mind, an open heart, a true tongue, a light step, a forgiving nature, and a love of all living creatures. Jamie Sams & David Carson, Medicine Cards

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#455599 - 11/30/13 05:28 PM Re: . [Re: focusedbody]
OCN Offline


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 219
Loc: Western Europe
Before i found out i had a day of tremendous shaking in my body.. i couldnt control it and it was acompanied by a feeling of fear.. very surreal.. the day after i discovered i was addicted to smoking mj and some weeks after i quit smoking, i found out about the abuse..

i'd give it some time.. perhaps something will come up, as it appears to be happining.. Stay strong and try to stay connected to yourself!
_________________________
Trust me, you are worth it to love yourself!

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#455751 - 12/01/13 10:01 PM Re: . [Re: focusedbody]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 341
Loc: NY
OCN:

Thanks for the comment about the shaking.

A couple of months ago, I went to my kids' school during the day to volunteer during lunchtime. As I approached the front door, my whole body was shaking. I felt possessed and had no idea what would happen next. Fortunately, once I was inside it was all right. My mind settled a bit.

Last week, I went to the same school in the company of my mother to visit my children. The shaking was there again, but not so overpowering, as I did some deep breathing and got more centered in my body.

Both experiences seemed to help me understand more on the level of my physical and emotional being. This was reinforced by being more communicative and functional that day. Heading back to this brink of awareness can feel like tempting fate, but the fact is it happens on its own in ways that one can ultimately trust to be a positive part of the healing process.

Breathing seems to work into this. Not sure, but maybe that's why it took quitting smoking for you....

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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