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#452857 - 11/08/13 06:54 AM scripture, speaking of children
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: O Kanada
Jesus, speaking of children
http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matthew%2018.1-14
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.


however...
Deuteronomy 22: 28-29
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."
can't say i agree with that.

Question: "What does the Bible say about pedophilia/paedophilia?"

Answer: "There is no direct mention in the Bible about pedophilia, but that does not mean that this is something that we cannot address with timeless principles that come out of Scripture. One concept that we could look to is the sin of "fornication," and this word has the same idea in both the Hebrew and the Greek. The Greek word is porneia, and we get the English word "porno" from this word. One can recognize that it is the basis for the word "pornography." The word in Scripture refers to any illicit sexual activity, and this would include the abhorrent acts of a pedophile, including the gathering and trading of graphic sexual pictures of young children. People who involve themselves in this type of activity usually graduate from looking to actual actions that bring harm to children. Fornication is something that is present on the lists of the "lusts of the flesh" (Galatians 5:16-21) and also on the list of the evil things that come out of the heart of man apart from God (Mark 7:21-23).

Pedophiles are people who fall under the characteristic of being "without natural affection" (Romans 1:31; 2 Timothy 3:2). The phrase "without natural affection" is translated from one Greek word, and it means “inhuman, unloving and unsociable.” One without natural affection acts in ways that are against the social norm. This would certainly describe a pedophile.

In addition, there is a principle that can be taken from Jesus' words about children. Jesus used a child to teach His disciples that childlike faith is what is necessary for entrance into the kingdom of heaven and that the Father has concern for all of His "little ones" (Matthew 18:1-14). Although the faith as of a child is the context, it is not a stretch to use verse 10 as a basis for a principle about the treatment of children: "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matthew 18:10, King James Version). The word "offend" in the Greek means “to cause one to stumble, to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, to entice to sin, to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey, to cause to fall away, to cause one displeasure at a thing, or to make indignant.

These definitions of the word "offend" can easily be applied to the actions of a practicing pedophile. The fact that an offence against a child is seen as something that is so serious also lends weight to this application. Of course, this principle can be applied to a wide range of child-abusive actions, and it seems to really make the case against anyone who would bring harm to a child.
"


source: http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia.html

Matthew 19
13) Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people,
14) but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
15) And he laid his hands on them and went away.
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#453488 - 11/13/13 11:21 AM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: victor-victim]
SamV Offline
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Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Interesting thought Victor. Doing research and bring that research to the public is a good idea, I would be interested in your thoughts on this research. what can you conclude?

Sam
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#453502 - 11/13/13 01:50 PM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: victor-victim]
pufferfish Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
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V-V

I think you wrote an excellent post on this subject. It's something I'm deeply interested in.

Preachers sometimes say that Matthew 18:1-6 is referring to adults. That beats me as to why they do this. Jesus was actually posing a small child as a visual aid as to who/what he was referring to.
Originally Posted By: Matt 18:1-6 NIV

At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.


Yes, he was saying that adults must become like children as far as humility is concerned.

What is it that makes children lose their humility as they proceed toward adulthood?

Puffer


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#453519 - 11/13/13 05:02 PM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: pufferfish]
Jacob S Offline
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Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 594
Originally Posted By: pufferfish

Yes, he was saying that adults must become like children as far as humility is concerned.

What is it that makes children lose their humility as they proceed toward adulthood?

Puffer



I think William Wordsworth said it best

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star, 60
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from afar:
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come 65
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But he beholds the light, and whence it flows, 70
He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
Must travel, still is Nature's priest,
And by the vision splendid
Is on his way attended; 75
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.

Earth fills her lap with pleasures of her own;
Yearnings she hath in her own natural kind,
And, even with something of a mother's mind, 80
And no unworthy aim,
The homely nurse doth all she can
To make her foster-child, her Inmate Man,
Forget the glories he hath known,
And that imperial palace whence he came.

. . .

Thou little Child, yet glorious in the might
Of heaven-born freedom on thy being's height,
Why with such earnest pains dost thou provoke
The years to bring the inevitable yoke,
Thus blindly with thy blessedness at strife? 130
Full soon thy soul shall have her earthly freight,
And custom lie upon thee with a weight,
Heavy as frost, and deep almost as life!
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Like the one who stands behind him
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wild with abandon when he's gone

just stay alive.
do whatever you need to.
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#453544 - 11/13/13 08:04 PM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: O Kanada
to answer your question, SAMV, my personal opinion is that pedophilia would fall under the category of fornication, and as such, it is a sin.
any violence, coercion, or threat involved, would be a sin, regardless of the sexual contact.


the Deuteronomy 22: 28-29 does NOT condone the action, but i find the penalty ludicrous, from my 21st century perch.

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#453582 - 11/13/13 11:50 PM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: victor-victim]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6866
Loc: USA
There is in the Bible at least one specific admonition that kidnapping is forbidden.

It is in 1 Timothy 1:9. In some versions it says "manstealers"



Edited by pufferfish (11/14/13 12:09 AM)

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#461146 - 02/19/14 11:59 PM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: victor-victim]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: O Kanada
just reading jeremiah and this popped up.

Jeremiah 19:
This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, says: “I am about to bring a calamity on this place, and the ears of anyone who hears about it will tingle. It is because they abandoned me and made this place unrecognizable. In it they are sacrificing to other gods, whom they and their forefathers and the kings of Judah had not known, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent ones. They built the high places of Ba'al in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to Ba'al, something that I had not commanded or spoken of and that had never even come into my heart.”

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#461567 - 02/26/14 05:24 PM Re: scripture, speaking of children [Re: victor-victim]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 845
Loc: Kc,Mo
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

To me this falls more in line as being willing to learn and grow as children do. They are totally dependent upon adults to teach them and are innocent in a manner of willing to be molded and sculpted by their parent. Jesus is giving us an example of this kind of innocence and this kind of willingness to be open completely to his instruction and a willingness to follow his will. Children are so open to adults leading them and we should become like children in this sense
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