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#449875 - 10/11/13 07:30 PM A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring'
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 703
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 09:22 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.

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#449890 - 10/12/13 02:50 AM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
Onesimus75 Offline


Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 158
Loc: Minnesota
Husky,
I'm sorry to hear that you have been down. I hope that things continue to improve for you!

It sounds like you have been doing a lot of soul searching, and come up with some things to work on.

But please don't beat yourself up. None of us are perfect! It's not a shock to learn that we have faults, but I admire the courage to face them openly and work on them. That's the path to some real victory in life, I think.
_________________________
We are not defined by our faults, or our wounds, but by the truth within us, which nothing can take away.

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#449892 - 10/12/13 04:19 AM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2145
Loc: durham, north england
@Husky, one thought does occur to me, at the conclusion of your post you talk of caring for someone being "doing the right things and saying the right things"

In my personal experience what you do or don't do or say or don't say are second to the actual emotion your feeling at the time. When learning to perform on stage I actually do this the other way, being unable to physically project emotions just with my body and voice, and needing to physically make myself "feel" whatever I'm supposed to be performing.

I wonder perhaps if you might want to think about what your actually feeling as opposed to what your doing, since from the sound of it that was the bit your parents actually never got right.

I might be wrong on this, but for me at never least if I wanted to show someone I cared about them, and to help them out of a bad situation, I'd begin with a, my feelings for them and my desire to good for them, and then B, move on to my empathic sense of what they feel, and act according to those.

And yes, I perfectly agree, having another person trust you and confide in you is a powerful experience, it goes without saying. But that's not necessarily a negative thing, not unless that sort of validation is the only! selfish reason behind your action, then your just like the coorporate executive who slaps down a thousand pounds to charity while paying his workers as little as possible and believes himself a great bennifactor, even though he wouldn't cross the street to help someone if it meant losing money.

One thing I'm realizing myself is that the idea that everyone is universally selfish is just as wrong as the opposite, likewise, it's just as possible for a "good" action to be wrong in motivation, it all depends upon the perceptions and feelings involved.

I know someone who is a great example of this. Everyone regards her as a wonderfully altruistic person. She runs around trying to do her best for others all the time, and yet everything is motivated by guild and perception of "what a good person should! do" she's entirely cold, indeed whenever I see her she is stressed out to the eyeballs and frequently behaves in a calous, unfeeling way towards others, (she's occasionally made deeply cutting personal remarks without realizing), ---- yet because of all the "things she does for others" people believe her to be a saint, despite the fact that all her actions are motivated only by guilt, and not by actually wanting! to do something for someone else.

I hope some of this vaguely makes sense. I admit moral motivations are a bit of a thing of mine, both professionally, and personally, especially because I've spent so much time working on my own worthlessness.

Luke.


Edited by dark empathy (10/12/13 07:37 AM)

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#449900 - 10/12/13 06:26 AM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Husky,

I'm simple in my thoughts. So this may seem sandbox level.

The people I have affection for, or am attracted to, I do not choose. I just am. I have heard you don't pick the one you love. I agree. There are literally thousands of songs like "I hate myself for loving you".

I have some people in my life I am supposed to love by the role they have biologically in my life. Some of these people live their role to varying degrees. My biological father chose not to live the father role. Not my choice not my fault. And I can't try and shove him in that box. So I have been forced to realize his examples were bad, he dies not want the job, and find someone else that is a good example.... No choice really. If I agree or not, that was the case.

As Dark pointed out at the end of his amazing summation, I have to learn.

On what a good person does? If it is regarding me and a choice, morally or ethically, it can be a good question. If it is about the world loving me for being a good person, trouble awaits. if i am trying to fill that empty spot where i expected love from my father, as i tried to shove him in the Father Box he never wanted to be in.... that thinking is quicksand.

If I find and follow good examples, I can learn to like myself, maybe have some reality based self esteem. Pleasing others is always being the doormat with the smiley face on it.

Best wishes on finding your peace and balance on this topic.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#449903 - 10/12/13 07:55 AM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2145
Loc: durham, north england
That is all True Otf.

one thing I have! realized is that love is more than needed to be needed or than what you do.

Once (as I recently recounted in another topic), when I was twenty two i met a particular girl who I'd seen off and on since I was a child, the daughter of one of my parents' friends.

She was at the time extremely upset since she was with a partner who was emotionally extremely cold and distant, yet couldn't bare to be apart from him because she was so afraid of being alone. She finished up in my arms crying all over me.

I admit I had the impulse to say to her that I'd not leave her, to invite her out to see a film, see if I could start a relationship with her, indeed she'd said, in a rather simple way to various people including her parents that she loved me, (though she meant this simply in a way of brotherly emotional support).

I opened my mouth to offer to be there for her, and to invite her out to see a film, (lion witch and the wardrobe was just playing), when suddenly something stopped me. It absolutely hit me that I was doing this not for her, but for myself, since part of me needed! to be needed. While a kind, generous and compassionate person, this girl was not particularly intelligent, we had little to nothing in common interlectually, (indeed I often felt I was having to dumb things down for her). If I were! to attempt to start and share my life with hers, it would not work out well for me, or ultimately even for her since I didn't love her, there was nothing reciprical or communicative in our interactions, just her needing someone and me needing to be needed, heck, we had barely any interests in common.

While I've got a number of regrets around relationships, or around my inability to begin any, that decision 8 years ago isn't one of them, I'm still sure I did the right thing.

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#449952 - 10/12/13 04:34 PM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
BraveFalcon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1224
Loc: The ATL

Hi Husky. Great post and an interesting self-evaluation. Although I have to say that perhaps you're being a little hard on yourself on some of these points. Since I've been here, I've only ever seen you as a truly caring, supportive and insightful force on the board. Not to mention that, almost paradoxically, the very fact that you would take the time to sit down and self-evaluate like this, pointing out the ways in which you may be taking on some of the faults of your parents, shows to me that you are, in fact, not like your parents. Would either of your parents have ever done such a self evaluation in the name of correcting some of their own flaws? From the things you have told me/us about them, I'm guessing the answer to that is an emphatic "no". So, either way, you're on the right path and your doing the right things. Your ability to admit your own faults and analyze them like this alone shows me that you're probably light years ahead of your parents in all of the respects in which you've stated you're afraid you may be like them. I think you should be proud of that. Keep working on this, buddy. Stay strong. Peace.

Ken

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#450052 - 10/13/13 02:34 PM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 703
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 09:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.

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#450102 - 10/13/13 09:24 PM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
bey Offline


Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 329
Loc: canada
Hey husky
I can really relate to what you wrote. I also see so much of my parents in all of my "flaws", and lord knows I have many. For me, I get this terror reaction to seeing them in my behaviour, so much of who they were is wrapped up in my abuse and the abusive relationship we had. Everything I do that was them suddenly seems abusive and terrible to me. But in reality the majority of it is just human stuff, human feelings, human mistakes. Nothing sinister there at all.

I think what makes us not like them is what ken said - seeing how certain behaviours aren't working and trying to do something about them. You notice how what you do is affecting others, for better or for worse. And I don't know if what you wrote about yourself is true or not, if you are seeing things clearly, but I do know you are a smart guy with a good heart, and I know you can decide that for yourself.

And do remember that no one is perfect, that no one does relationships perfectly, romantic or friendship. Boundaries are a hard thing to figure out, and totally not my strong suit. And Sometimes things just don't go the way we hoped, for a ton of different reasons. Be kind to yourself.

Benny
_________________________
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

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#450106 - 10/13/13 11:02 PM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 428
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: concerned_husky
The truth is, I *cannot* love and care about someone as naturally as I'd like to.


Husky:

This is a great aspiration. I suspect that what you mean by "naturally" is a sense of flow, a sense of another person, that combined with trust would feel like a healthy relationship. Good thing to want, but my guess it is a bit of work for everyone.

As others have said, don't be too hard on yourself. I would also add don't have an idealized view of a relationship, where there are only the right things to do and the wrong things. That may also be a legacy of a message from our parents, that we don't know how to do anything "right". Chances are, there is no right way in these human matters, only what follows from your intuition and desire to be loving and caring. Asking oneself questions about one's own actions as you are doing seems to me to be the way towards more understanding.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#450268 - 10/15/13 06:59 PM Re: A Few Thoughts from the Wreckage, on 'Love/Caring' [Re: concerned_husky]
concerned_husky Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/12
Posts: 703
.


Edited by concerned_husky (08/31/15 09:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Reducing ties with MS.

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